I would love a NPC Helmsman

[lysan]

I posted a suggestion for a hyper-jump mini-game in the Suggestions forum a long time ago: I'd like to be able to "chain-jump".

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/354532

Chain jumps is a very needed feature missing in the game, sure we can improve a lot of other mechanics that is related to travelling around in the galaxy, however chain jumps is the first step to make the game less grinding.

When playing 4X games there is a lot of grinding too, however most of these game got this "one more turn" and suddenly you're realizing you just played for 10 hours in one go.

When you need to use Netflix or other stimuli to "enjoy" your time, there is something wrong. I don't believe people use netflix when mining, bounty hunting, driving around with the SRV or doing anything else but star jumping. Star Jumping is a core mechanic, you can't avoid it if you want to get out of the bubble of go anywhere in the game.

That is why there is a need to make a mechanic that remove this unnecessary grind without removing the size of the galaxy.

 

[SentineI]

Re "chain jumping" mechanic: Maybe FDev can kill two birds with one stone?

At the moment there is no way to jump to 2nd or 3rd star in a system, you always end up at the first star, and then have to SuperCruise for hours (it feels like) to get to planets around the 2nd or 3rd star.

What if there was some gamey mechanic for targeting the star you want? Get it wrong & you end-up near the wrong star, and perhaps dropped out of SuperCruise (and a little damaged).

Get it right, and you'd have the opportunity to SC to your in-system destination... OR immediately jump to the next star in your nav chain (maybe portrayed as a 'slingshot' around the star?).

And probably this mechanic could be made to work nearly as well for systems with only single stars (you'd still have to 'aim' for the star, perhaps navigating a bit of 'turbulence'?).

 

[lysan]

Re "chain jumping" mechanic: Maybe FDev can kill two birds with one stone?

At the moment there is no way to jump to 2nd or 3rd star in a system, you always end up at the first star, and then have to SuperCruise for hours (it feels like) to get to planets around the 2nd or 3rd star.

What if there was some gamey mechanic for targeting the star you want? Get it wrong & you end-up near the wrong star, and perhaps dropped out of SuperCruise (and a little damaged).

Get it right, and you'd have the opportunity to SC to your in-system destination... OR immediately jump to the next star in your nav chain (maybe portrayed as a 'slingshot' around the star?).

And probably this mechanic could be made to work nearly as well for systems with only single stars (you'd still have to 'aim' for the star, perhaps navigating a bit of 'turbulence'?).

I’m all for new way of breaking the monotonous play mechanics, especially regarding star jumps, as long as you don’t need to micro manage every single jump manually. We can be interdicted, still need to refuel and if misjumps are introduced it’s all good.

 

[SentineI]

Re "chain jumping" mechanic: Maybe FDev can kill two birds with one stone?

At the moment there is no way to jump to 2nd or 3rd star in a system, you always end up at the first star, and then have to SuperCruise for hours (it feels like) to get to planets around the 2nd or 3rd star.

What if there was some gamey mechanic for targeting the star you want? Get it wrong & you end-up near the wrong star, and perhaps dropped out of SuperCruise (and a little damaged).

Get it right, and you'd have the opportunity to SC to your in-system destination... OR immediately jump to the next star in your nav chain (maybe portrayed as a 'slingshot' around the star?).

And probably this mechanic could be made to work nearly as well for systems with only single stars (you'd still have to 'aim' for the star, perhaps navigating a bit of 'turbulence'?).

I've now posted a more detailed explanation as a Suggestion:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-in-multi-star-systems!?p=6403166#post6403166

 

[rhiz]

Slightly off topic and I know that piloting purists will balk at the idea, but I played X2: The Threat many years ago and was impressed by its sophisticated plotting/action programming system, which you could apply to ships that you weren’t actually piloting (travel to system x, dock at station A, buy goods, travel back, sell goods). More than just convenience, it added another layer of strategy to the game. If you had the ability to contract other players/NPCs to protect your trade routes, or do so yourself, it could be quite interesting.


As for hyper-jumping, there are some good ideas in this thread. I’ve done a fair amount of exploration and tend to just phase out and get on with it. That said, even simply creating a more interesting and varied jump sequence could improve matters. I work in the field of creative coding and generative visuals (glsl shaders etc), and there are a wealth of possibilities.

If used imaginatively, Witch-space could be a profoundly interesting place. I haven’t looked into the proposed science of it all, but you could use it to yield information about the universe, as well as narrative or even philosophical elements – more like some kind of dream sequence. Why not harness the apparent oddness of quantum theory in a more poetic and theatrical way?



I’m really enjoying the game, respect the dev team and love the beautiful canvas that they’ve created. I just think that they could approach things with a tad more imagination at times. Kubrick’s 2001 is obviously an inspiration, and the Star Gate sequence is one of its strongest elements. I’d sit the team down with Tarkovsky’s Solaris as well. In short, “There are more things in heaven and earth...”

 

[rhiz]

As for hyper-jumping, there are some good ideas in this thread. I’ve done a fair amount of exploration and tend to just phase out and get on with it. That said, even simply creating a more interesting and varied jump sequence could improve matters. I work in the field of creative coding and generative visuals (glsl shaders etc), and there are a wealth of possibilities.

If used imaginatively, Witch-space could be profoundly interesting place. I haven’t looked into the proposed science of it all, but you could use it to yield information about the universe, as well as narrative or even philosophical elements – more like some kind of dream sequence. Why not harness the apparent oddness of quantum theory in a more poetic and theatrical way?

I’m really enjoying the game, respect the dev team and love the beautiful canvas that they’ve created. I just think that they could approach things with a tad more imagination at times. Kubrick’s 2001 is obviously an inspiration, and the Star Gate sequence is one of its strongest elements. I’d sit the team down with Tarkovsky’s Solaris as well. In short, “There are more things in heaven and earth...”

In fact, the more I think about it, more I think that it could work. It could function as a kind of narrative thread that begins to bind everything together, without sacrificing the open, unending nature of the game. If it were generative with a large pool of possible variations, the team could add elements over time – echoes of the past, present and future etc. If we’re dealing with the world of “quantum weirdness”, it needn’t be at all linear, which would lend itself well. FTT stretched conversations reverberating through the void, strange alien chatter, flashes of a distant memory somehow woven into the fabric of Witch-space, alternative realities. Lots of possibilities – it could reach the point where we actually relish hyper-jumps.

 

[lysan]

In fact, the more I think about it, more I think that it could work. It could function as a kind of narrative thread that begins to bind everything together, without sacrificing the open, unending nature of the game. If it were generative with a large pool of possible variations, the team could add elements over time – echoes of the past, present and future etc. If we’re dealing with the world of “quantum weirdness”, it needn’t be at all linear, which would lend itself well. FTT stretched conversations reverberating through the void, strange alien chatter, flashes of a distant memory somehow woven into the fabric of Witch-space, alternative realities. Lots of possibilities – it could reach the point where we actually relish hyper-jumps.

What we need is to eliminate the repetitiveness functions in the game, and star jumping is at the core of the game, thus it can't be avoided, it's something that should not be
as it is, longer jumps don't solve it, only a way to remove the micro managing of jumping would.

 

[Riverside]

What we need is to eliminate the repetitiveness functions in the game, and star jumping is at the core of the game, thus it can't be avoided, it's something that should not be
as it is, longer jumps don't solve it, only a way to remove the micro managing of jumping would.

Would you sacrifice increased jump range if you had an autopilot to jump for you until you needed fuel?
If not how much automation would it take for you to be prepared to return to non-engineered jump ranges?

 

[lysan]

Would you sacrifice increased jump range if you had an autopilot to jump for you until you needed fuel?
If not how much automation would it take for you to be prepared to return to non-engineered jump ranges?

Yes, I don't care about increase jump range, what I would like is to set a course, ask my NPC navigator to follow that course.
That would leave me time to study the map and check if there is some interesting out there to check out.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hmm....

Arguably - especially when merely moving from A to B - I have to admit the idea of combating the Phenomenon I've come to call "Hyperjump Fatigue" is a sexy one.
I remember the initial Engineers and many repeat-trips of Opportunity (suitable Engineer Cargo gained) in the bubble to Palin and back AFAIK were the 1st cases of me becoming allergic to longer series of Hyperjumps.

2 years ago, I wouldn't have had any use for an NPC helmsman I could hand over Controls and use the NPC as an Autopilot.
But by now? Heck, I'd appreciate it to be honest.

After ten thousands of jumps, repeating the exact same things over and over with no surprises or changes has become an extremely dull experience for me.
Mainly since the "Gameplay value" of these really doesn't yield anything in my view, a purely mechanical requirement to move from one System to another.
Obviously for everyday use, the mechanics work. It's okay. It gets the job done.
But is it fun? Engaging? Using any parts of my brain that keep me awake at the controls? Hardly.

Can I "spice things up" a little? Do I have alternative ways to do the same task? Nope, unfortunately not.

---------------------------------------------

So yeah, I could get along with having the Option of
- seeing NPC(s) man the bridge with me
- handing over Flight Controls to my Crew
- have the Crew perform basic Navigation incl. normal Hyperjumps

How to give the convenience a simple price tag? Have them Fuel Scoop at only 75% rate (similar to NPCs in SuperCruise flying like 8-9 sec ETA instead of Players doing more like 6-7sec ETA).
Obviously, the Crew is onboard - you need one (cost) and you could also lose them if the Ship goes *splat*
Plus, have them raise hands whenever facing a Jet Cone ("I'm sorry Commander, that's beyond my paygrade. Engines fullstop Sir, you have the Controls.")

 

[lysan]

Hmm....

Arguably - especially when merely moving from A to B - I have to admit the idea of combating the Phenomenon I've come to call "Hyperjump Fatigue" is a sexy one.
I remember the initial Engineers and many repeat-trips of Opportunity (suitable Engineer Cargo gained) in the bubble to Palin and back AFAIK were the 1st cases of me becoming allergic to longer series of Hyperjumps.

2 years ago, I wouldn't have had any use for an NPC helmsman I could hand over Controls and use the NPC as an Autopilot.
But by now? Heck, I'd appreciate it to be honest.

After ten thousands of jumps, repeating the exact same things over and over with no surprises or changes has become an extremely dull experience for me.
Mainly since the "Gameplay value" of these really doesn't yield anything in my view, a purely mechanical requirement to move from one System to another.
Obviously for everyday use, the mechanics work. It's okay. It gets the job done.
But it is fun? Engaging? Using any parts of my brain that keep me awake at the controls? Hardly.

Can I "spice things up" a little? Do I have alternative ways to do the same task? Nope, unfortunately not.

---------------------------------------------

So yeah, I could get along with having the Option of
- seeing NPC(s) man the bridge with me
- handing over Flight Controls to my Crew
- have the Crew perform basic Navigation incl. normal Hyperjumps

How to give the convenience a simple price tag? Have them Fuel Scoop at only 75% rate (similar to NPCs in SuperCruise flying like 8-9 sec ETA instead of Players doing more like 6-7sec ETA).
Obviously, the Crew is onboard - you need one (cost) and you could also lose them if the Ship goes *splat*
Plus, have them raise hands whenever facing a Jet Cone ("I'm sorry Commander, that's beyond my paygrade. Engines fullstop Sir, you have the Controls.")

What can I say, I agree 100%

 

[Dad Rock]

I do agree. The tedium of manually jumping great distances when you need to get somewhere, and I'm not talking about exploration honking, just straight-up buckeyballing some place, is too much sometimes. We need some kind of mechanism to allow for this.

 

[ZeroAi]

The idea of an "auto jump sequencer" is pretty popular sci fi literature today, and I would welcome it in Elite.

Even if I had to hire an NPC to do it - seeing them on the bridge would be cool either way.

I'd also like to see "micro jumps" added, which is again something very popular in sci fi lit today.

Maybe you can only micro jump in systems you've scanned, and to bodies of sufficient mass (Stars, Super Jupiters, etc.) Either way it would be cool.

However, I would really prefer more of the Star Wars or Star Trek method, where you can jump for as long / far as you have fuel. This would likely require an new type of FSD, maybe a new proper Hyperdrive?

But a valid question becomes what do you do while traveling (since you're not required to tilt your ship away from the star and press next jump.)

Lots of good suggestions posted already, but I'll add some more below (some may be redundant)

First, there are actually a lot of things in game now that I'd love to do on a 5 to 20 minute hyperspace jump.

Catch up on GalNet without the constant dropping out and charging, use the Sys and Gal map to research possible trade routes and manage bookmarks, get a shave and new flight suite in holo me, repaint my SRVs and SLFs, manage my inventory, firegroups, modules (except FSD), etc, etc, etc.

Add then they could add some new options, like letting me manually repair and tweak stuff.

While doing this with space legs would be cool, it could be implemented without it.

Honestly, the ability to repair your own ship manually would be very cool, and if there was some additional benefit to manual repairs that would be cool too.

In the end, I just look at all those Star Wars scenes set in the Millennium Falcon, and feel there's plenty that can be done during a 5-20 minute Hyperspace Jump that's a whole lot more interesting than pressing a jump button every minute :-D

Fly Safe o7

PS - For those who say you'll be suck in your Hyperjump for 20 minutes with no option to quit, I don't see why you couldn't emergency escape Hyperspace jumps just like you can emergency drop out of Supercruise.

 

[Iskariot]

EDIT: I changed the headline as we're out of BETA, however the topic is the same.

*************************************************************************

First the good stuff, I love the Chieftain, wonderful ship, almost perfect in my opinion.
The Engineers seems to be great too, I only did a few upgrades however the system where you can't go back, is good because you need to grind less. Material broker great = less grinding=more freedom.

And that is what it is about, having fun, less grinding more gameplay. There I was, toddling around in the galaxy, doing stuff, having a good time testing the new features. Then I decided to travel a bit further away from my spawn point, and I remember why I gave ED a pause.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYYQDaNgqQ

Turn ship towards star, press (J) to jump repeat and raise 30 time until arriving at destination!
NO WAY MAN, i ain't gonna do that, it's just horrible.

No I don't mind the time to travel, in fact I love the long traveling times, I don't mind the distance in the game, in fact i love the 1:1 galaxy. What I don't like is why I simply can't ask my NPC helmsman to follow my plotted course and tell me when I arrive, and if attacked by pirates tell me, so i can do something, or if we run out of fuel, tell me so i can do something, but for christ sake, don't make me jump manually as it can bring any sane person close to insanity. So I logged out, and played a game where I ride a camel or horse in a huge world to explore, and it got auto camel/horse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg0hic8d-HY

If the mechanic was tied in with a good npc crew system I'd be all for it.
I have proposed the following concerning an npc crew mechanic:

As far as having NPC crew is concerned I would already be happy if they were just a basic requirement for certain ships to be able to fly.
I just want them on board. I don't want huge special advantages and I don't want control taken away from me as a cmdr anyway.

- Perhaps having an ENGINEER might enable a slow auto repair for internal modules, or perhaps the use of fuel might be reduced with 5% Percent. Or perhaps you get a 5% better jump range. Or shields might reboot just a little bit faster.

- Perhaps having a MEDIC might come in handy when first person action (FPA) is introduced and cmdrs can get wounded.

- Perhaps having a CO PILOT would be required to fly SLF yourself (just like it is now) and the copilot might also enable auto jumping when you have plotted a jump route, and auto approach to a station in a system, and also auto docking.

- Perhaps having an npc WEAPONS OFFICER would simply improve turret targeting speed by 5%, and/or let weapons run 3% cooler and give you a 5% faster Kill Warrant scanner.

- In the future we might hire a SCIENCE OFFICER and have a scientific module on board (cool for explorers). A science officer might improve your speed of system and planetary scans etc. and we might take soil, flora and fauna samples and analyze them and sell the data to a science station for money.

As I said nothing fancy or complicated, or overpowered.
I don't need my ship to become a powerhouse.
Most important thing is that I just would like to have npc crew.
Being a soloist at heart I will never play ED with others. I just do not want the social interaction.

PAYMENT
---------
Of course the current percentages crew get wouldn't work that well as they would eat into our profits far too much.
And we also need the ability to put our crew on hold when we want to fly smaller ships for a while. Because if you want to fly an Eagle for a few weeks and do a bit of fighter combat then you can't have 4 crew members eating into your profits for doing nothing at all.
Otherwise we would either get bankrupt very soon, or we would have to fire them all the time (which is already happening now with the hireable pilots).

CREW SURVIVAL
----------------
Also: Give crew the same survival option as the humans.
Possible alternatives to killing them off:
Perhaps if your ship is blown up you can not use your crew member for 3 days, because he is on sick leave, or perhaps you need to pay medical costs, or perhaps there is a 10% chance he dies, but... do not kill him off by default. That makes no sense at all and is counter productive. People do get attached to crew. Use that to enhance the game. Work with that. Build mechanics around that.

 

[SushiCW]

Perhaps if your ship is blown up you can not use your crew member for 3 days, because he is on sick leave, or perhaps you need to pay medical costs, or perhaps there is a 10% chance he dies, but... do not kill him off by default. That makes no sense at all and is counter productive. People do get attached to crew. Use that to enhance the game. Work with that. Build mechanics around that.

Bingo, exactly this. Frontier understands the value of having players get attached to their ship, customize it, feel like it's theirs, etc. I hope they realize that the same can and should apply to crew!

 

[Notwyn]

Hmm....

Arguably - especially when merely moving from A to B - I have to admit the idea of combating the Phenomenon I've come to call "Hyperjump Fatigue" is a sexy one.
I remember the initial Engineers and many repeat-trips of Opportunity (suitable Engineer Cargo gained) in the bubble to Palin and back AFAIK were the 1st cases of me becoming allergic to longer series of Hyperjumps.

2 years ago, I wouldn't have had any use for an NPC helmsman I could hand over Controls and use the NPC as an Autopilot.
But by now? Heck, I'd appreciate it to be honest.

After ten thousands of jumps, repeating the exact same things over and over with no surprises or changes has become an extremely dull experience for me.
Mainly since the "Gameplay value" of these really doesn't yield anything in my view, a purely mechanical requirement to move from one System to another.
Obviously for everyday use, the mechanics work. It's okay. It gets the job done.
But is it fun? Engaging? Using any parts of my brain that keep me awake at the controls? Hardly.

Can I "spice things up" a little? Do I have alternative ways to do the same task? Nope, unfortunately not.

---------------------------------------------

So yeah, I could get along with having the Option of
- seeing NPC(s) man the bridge with me
- handing over Flight Controls to my Crew
- have the Crew perform basic Navigation incl. normal Hyperjumps

How to give the convenience a simple price tag? Have them Fuel Scoop at only 75% rate (similar to NPCs in SuperCruise flying like 8-9 sec ETA instead of Players doing more like 6-7sec ETA).
Obviously, the Crew is onboard - you need one (cost) and you could also lose them if the Ship goes *splat*
Plus, have them raise hands whenever facing a Jet Cone ("I'm sorry Commander, that's beyond my paygrade. Engines fullstop Sir, you have the Controls.")

This sounds great, I've always wanted to see NPC crew in game.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

You won't see NPC crew until you pay up for it.

Additionally, one-third of the forum would have a terminal health event about Easy Mode.

 

[Kzak]

One of the first things I did (using mouse + keyboard) was to bind the 'jump to star system' button to Mouse5, since I won't have to move my hand over to the keyboard. Mouse4 is allocated to selecting the next star system from the course (if any). Call me lazy, but this lets me jump repeatedly over long distances far more easily.

 

[rhiz]

What we need is to eliminate the repetitiveness functions in the game, and star jumping is at the core of the game, thus it can't be avoided, it's something that should not be
as it is, longer jumps don't solve it, only a way to remove the micro managing of jumping would.

Hi Lysander lysan – yes, I wasn’t arguing in favour of longer jumps necessarily, but pondering how we might introduce variety and interest into the current system without changing the underlying mechanics. As you say, it’s the repetitiveness that needs addressing. I agree, jumping is at the core of the game and it’s something that all players are doing all of the time (where else in the game is this true?), hence my admittedly rather left-field suggestion that it could function as an expressive medium. From what I understand, it wouldn’t be entirely out of keeping with Elite lore either – reports of strange sights/structures when passing through and so on. I'd be fine with automation, and I think that the idea of some kind of mini-game has a great deal of merit also.

 

[stumblingdrunk]

This would take the chore of getting the vette around and would mean instead of mindlessly fuel scooping and pressing a jump key we could watch some amazing external views instead with music.

i get a feeling though that this is something FD wouldn’t want to implement as the forum would set on fire