How much Influence is raised per Quest
- Thread starter livewater
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
This is what we reckon.
All systems have a cap applied to them which is related to 1/log population. It takes the same amount of effort to achieve that cap in all systems, what varies is the amount of movement that you can reach. In a population of 1,000,000 and 7 factions and your faction being c50% you can expect a gain of c 0.7% for one + mission, 1.4 for a ++ and 2.1 for a +++ and a max movement of about 6.4%. In a 10 million system the max is around 4.8% and in 100k more like 7.8%. All this assumes no opposition for your faction and no work for any other faction.
Expect different answers from different people though.
All systems have a cap applied to them which is related to 1/log population. It takes the same amount of effort to achieve that cap in all systems, what varies is the amount of movement that you can reach. In a population of 1,000,000 and 7 factions and your faction being c50% you can expect a gain of c 0.7% for one + mission, 1.4 for a ++ and 2.1 for a +++ and a max movement of about 6.4%. In a 10 million system the max is around 4.8% and in 100k more like 7.8%. All this assumes no opposition for your faction and no work for any other faction.
Expect different answers from different people though.
The key aspect to consider is traffic and random cmdr activity. Many of our factions are in low to medium traffic systems. Where activity is high you will need to work to rise your factions activities above the background noise. What this means is different from system to system, essentially more art than science - and even then things can work out weirdly.
Hi Jane
Does this mean at the end of the day that 3 or 4 INF+++ missions would already reach that cap? If so, could there additional influence be expected from trading or selling exploration data?
I couldn't understand what c50% and c 0.7% means. Understood the cap, but c50% means in that scenario my chosen faction have 50% influence on that system? If so, suppose my faction have only 15% influence, the gains would differ? Or only the max cap?
c="circa" or around 50%/0.7%. And yes, your gains per action will differ markedly depending on what influence they started with.
Don't worry. Jane's abbreviations have confused me before too
It took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out that -ive meant negative, for example.
(If that's common in some profession somewhere, then my bad. I had never before seen it)
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Yes IF and its a big IF there is no other activity in the system. Sorry for being less than clear!
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Now that's easy to understand. But: In case of other activity could this be conteracted by a single CMDR e.g. doing 20 INF+++ missions a day plus additional trading etc. or is there a cap per CMDR regarding maximal possible influence each day?
But: In case of other activity could this be conteracted by a single CMDR e.g. doing 20 INF+++ missions a day plus additional trading etc. or is there a cap per CMDR regarding maximal possible influence each day?Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
We believe that there is a cap per system no per commander. If negative actions are put in against a faction its a simple subtraction sum - as long as you have enough positive points. E.g. 20 murders can be neutralised by 20 bounty drops - but you would need around another 5 to get the full possible influence gain. If the competition is doing positive actions for a different faction you are in effect splitting the possible gain. Then the relative starting influence and the amount of actions put in for each faction come into play.
O.K., so as long as one busy CMDR is able to oppose three lazy CMDRs that's fine with me.
Quite doable.
It gets into the mystery of the Black Box we all speculate - but if you put enough effort in you can counteract most of the effort of other players.
You won't hit the max influence swings with others working, but you at least can prevent loss of ground.
Its just that... its not needed really if the traffic is low, so alot see it as a waste of time to do that all the time.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
It's entirely possible things have changed, but a long time ago when Influence gains for missions were measured as low-medium-high,
Low Influnce = 1 point
Medium Influence = 2 points
High influence = 4 points
Now we have +, ++ and +++. Experience tells me the increase is comparable still, but when 3.0 Lands and we get the boosted influence effects as a reward like ++++++, who knows what they'll be worth (32 points?).
What's a point? It's a point in the "influence bucket" for a faction. It's a bucket of points that gets normalised each tick, based off a whole bunch of factors, and used to calculate influence. There's some maths about this a long long time ago here... but there's a lot of black-box stuff that influences things so it's a rough rule.
RE: That table Jane shared, it's also not going to apply once 3.0 lands. Basically, almost every mission will have three different reward options ranging from boosted rep, influence, credits, cargo or material/data rewards, and it's RNG as to which one it is. So while a cargo run is currently +inf, in 3.0 that could be +inf for one mission across any of the three rewards, while a different cargo mission has ++++ inf but minimal credits as a reward. It'll encourage doing a variety of missions (somewhat)
Low Influnce = 1 point
Medium Influence = 2 points
High influence = 4 points
Now we have +, ++ and +++. Experience tells me the increase is comparable still, but when 3.0 Lands and we get the boosted influence effects as a reward like ++++++, who knows what they'll be worth (32 points?).
What's a point? It's a point in the "influence bucket" for a faction. It's a bucket of points that gets normalised each tick, based off a whole bunch of factors, and used to calculate influence. There's some maths about this a long long time ago here... but there's a lot of black-box stuff that influences things so it's a rough rule.
RE: That table Jane shared, it's also not going to apply once 3.0 lands. Basically, almost every mission will have three different reward options ranging from boosted rep, influence, credits, cargo or material/data rewards, and it's RNG as to which one it is. So while a cargo run is currently +inf, in 3.0 that could be +inf for one mission across any of the three rewards, while a different cargo mission has ++++ inf but minimal credits as a reward. It'll encourage doing a variety of missions (somewhat)
Well, it'll need adjusting, anyway. I'll be updating it once the release happens.
It won't, I think, be that unpredictable - either you take a reward that isn't "more influence", in which case you get the standard influence boost, or you take "more influence" (when available) and get a bigger boost. Exactly how much bigger seems to vary a bit depending on the mission type - I didn't get enough time in Beta to see if it was consistent within a type: if it is, I'll just add another column for it ... if not, the disclaimer about the "influence boost" reward type is already written and ready to go when 3.0 does.
(It didn't look for the missions I checked as if the base case source INF/REP values had changed for anything)
The bigger change is going to be the extra destination effects ... those I'll be noting in the table which missions haven't been re-checked since 3.0.
In my experience during the beta, it wasn't consistent, but it wasn't just the boosted value that wasn't consistent within a type, but I could be mistaken on that. There were definitely cases where unboosted rewards of the same type varied between the different reward packages. Guess we'll wait to see when it goes live.
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All systems have a cap applied to them which is related to 1/log population. It takes the same amount of effort to achieve that cap in all systems, what varies is the amount of movement that you can reach. In a population of 1,000,000 and 7 factions and your faction being c50% you can expect a gain of c 0.7% for one + mission, 1.4 for a ++ and 2.1 for a +++ and a max movement of about 6.4%. In a 10 million system the max is around 4.8% and in 100k more like 7.8%. All this assumes no opposition for your faction and no work for any other faction.
Can I ask where the c0.7% figure comes from for a one + mission?
Can I ask where the c0.7% figure comes from for a one + mission?
Lots of testing, recording results, allowing for uncontrolled effects ... and then more testing.
Lots of testing, recording results, allowing for uncontrolled effects ... and then more testing.
Given the dates of this thread and the considerable changes in effectiveness of missions, I don't think those values are valid anymore though right?
Also remember, it was confirmed in a dev post recently that +++++ is just the maximum number of +'s that are displayed (5). There may be missions which show that, but are actually worth more +'s than that.