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What people don't like about PvP the most? Losing money, losing exploration data, losing time etc.
There is no solution for those that simply don't want any form of PvP except for playing in PG, those people cannot be helped.
But there is a group of people who wouldn't mind PvP if it didn't cost them so much. I think with passenger missions giving people 200 mln / hr more people were into PvP and they didn't mind seeing rebuy screen now and then. With that now gone, penalty for rebuy screen is much more severe. The more severe losing PvP fight you make, the more reluctant to take part in it people will be.
And I agree, Engineers are to blame for the situation too. Before, anyone with some money could outfit a ship for combat. Now you have to spend hundreds of hours to have a competitive ship. Potential casual PvP'ers have no time for that. The tediousness of unlocking all Engineers and then finding materials and doing all G1-G5 rolls for all modules is just too much for people whose primary activity is not PvP.
There is no solution for those that simply don't want any form of PvP except for playing in PG, those people cannot be helped.
But there is a group of people who wouldn't mind PvP if it didn't cost them so much. I think with passenger missions giving people 200 mln / hr more people were into PvP and they didn't mind seeing rebuy screen now and then. With that now gone, penalty for rebuy screen is much more severe. The more severe losing PvP fight you make, the more reluctant to take part in it people will be.
And I agree, Engineers are to blame for the situation too. Before, anyone with some money could outfit a ship for combat. Now you have to spend hundreds of hours to have a competitive ship. Potential casual PvP'ers have no time for that. The tediousness of unlocking all Engineers and then finding materials and doing all G1-G5 rolls for all modules is just too much for people whose primary activity is not PvP.
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The majority of threads are "answered" in the first few posts and develop into discussion for the sake of it.
Wonder how many PvE threads will get shifted if I report them for having gone off topic...answers on a postcard.
Why not try?
Not really. I have never had anything close to a PvP build.
PvP builds are able to last 15-30min under more or less constant fire. All we have to do is to last 20 seconds to hi-wake.
Surviving a PvP attack is usually very easy, if you are prepared. The question is more if you are interested in doing a hi-wake detour or dropping a destination, just because someone wants to kill you for not particular reason.
Personally I want this at times, while other times I can't be bothered and chose PG.
I admit that I fly in open quite a bit, just on prinsipal. It's my small contribution to those that actually bother with PvP piracy.
Yeah, these fellers are the ones who are probably most influenced by PvP irritants. I remember I went looking for pirates last year, going to CGs with some cargo in the hold as a reward for being pirated. Was interdicted lots, upon which immediate shooting occurred. So much gameplay. The same fellers lambasting how risk averse the Elite Community is, is also interdicting T-6s in FDLs and Vettes just to shoot them up. So much bravery.I admit that I fly in open quite a bit, just on prinsipal. It's my small contribution to those that actually bother with PvP piracy.
Still, Vin seems to be able to play as a PvP pirate so there still are customers in Open. Maybe I should have made a piracy appointment
I think the main reason many of us don't like PvP in Elite, is simply because we don't like losing, and we don't like somebody being better at, for example, combat than we are. I include myself in that.
Nah that's not true. In CQC people die thousands of times and it doesn't stop them from coming back. If that was true, nobody would play i.e. Battlefield.. 99% of people suck at it, yet they keep coming back.
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I think the main reason many of us don't like PvP in Elite, is simply because we don't like losing, and we don't like somebody being better at, for example, combat than we are. I include myself in that.
I'd modify that. We don't like losing when the odds are stacked heavily against us. Han_Zen points out you can kit well enough to escape some of the time, but then it simply boils down to running all the time, so you ask yourself, why bother if that is the only outcome anyway.
I'm sure many of us who don't do PvP in ED do PvP in other games and are fine with losing. Hell, i've not won a game of Fortnite yet (came third in a team game with my son though) and don't expect to. But its still crazy fun.
Pure PvP games are a lot of fun, even when losing. Although, i once had an ED PvPer tell me that arena type PvP games are not proper PvP because there is no element of loss. I laughed a little at that. I guess for some people that PvP is only fun when they can cause someone else to lose something. I bet some of those would be the first to quit playing if they were getting consistently beat.
Yeah, these fellers are the ones who are probably most influenced by PvP irritants. I remember I went looking for pirates last year, going to CGs with some cargo in the hold as a reward for being pirated. Was interdicted lots, upon which immediate shooting occurred. So much gameplay. The same fellers lambasting how risk averse the Elite Community is, is also interdicting T-6s in FDLs and Vettes just to shoot them up. So much bravery.
Still, Vin seems to be able to play as a PvP pirate so there still are customers in Open. Maybe I should have made a piracy appointment
The risk averse argument is the worst. As long as you fly a full combat build, you face zero risk in ED.
Traders and explorers face far more risk in Solo, than a minimaxed combat player in Open.
PvPers know this and have therefore invented their own commandments:
- Thou shalt not Hi-wake
- Thou shalt not low-wake
- Thou shalt not fit a working FDS
Without this, it's simply not working.
Canyon racing is dangerous. PvP is only dangerous for those that try to avoid it.
I'll agree to entirely disagree!!
PvP is a gankfest. Any other PvP I see is 2 spaceships jousting until the shields are gone and, then they high5 each other and leave.
In the main, both from my own experience, and the PvP-peens I see on Youtube, it's a 'gang up and kill anyone you can' type thing. If that's your idea of PvP, well.. meh
As for more people to join in... I'd guess the PvE side of ED is immense compared to the PvP side. So don't hold your breath, especially with what you have on offer...
So if I simply want to trade, I am forced to give up modules and jump range, so the pew pew kids won't attack me?
Here's an eye-opener... I can do what I want in private/solo and completely ignore the kids. It's awesome!
There's is absolutely no reason to play in open, unless you want PvP. If you don't want PvP, then 'open' can be simply ignored as a non entity.
Nail on the head right there!
Essentially yes.
You play in open if you want to be nice to PvP players or if you want to taunt them by flying a ship they can't touch.
If you don't support the idea of an fully open environment or if you are just put of by the horribel imbalance between combat builds and non combat builds, there is no reason to go to Open.
Plenty of PGs have enough players for the social/coop aspects of multiplayer.
It's going to sound odd but I have to agree. That's why I don't watch or get involved - most of the PvP pilots are terrible and it's just jousting or reverski and the game is how many rolls/scbs/mrps you've got.
But when you're well matched and without all that nonsense it was fun and the game does it very well. Another case where giving them what they want rather spoilt it with HP/DPS inflation taking over
Isn't it more realistic that you should fit defensive modules to ships and compromise to secure your cargo?
Maybe the problems are the NPCs aren't savage enough, that players have to take their job to make people fit shields.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Okay, so Numbers did go up. But not for the reasons you are thinking.
What happened here was It took lots of rolls for lots of people to max out %'s for secondaries with modules. In Engineers 3.0 they let us have our modules we worked for. But they also increased everything and capped it. So that way you were at a loss in the long run keeping your old modules.
What they did here was level the playing field and gave everyone the same chance as everyone else once you reach a certain amount of rolls. Basically its NASCAR and everything comes down to tuning performance and skill. Like it used to be for engineers. But now its with engineers. Or a skill tree and you pick where the points go.
Now we will see more outfitting properly because of the time they reduced. Its nowhere CLOSE to what it used to be.
They basically gave everyone a raise. We're all paid the same now too.
Greatest change Fdev has made. This is a very big move. And a very good one at that.
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its not popular because of balance
more time invested into crafting, SLF pilot experience gaining, credit grinding = Competitive advantage
that along with reverski and jousting just dont make it feel like a fight, and against anyone good with more SCB/HRPS than hull weight they will HW before their dead soooo there is no "win / reward" for either PVP player
more time invested into crafting, SLF pilot experience gaining, credit grinding = Competitive advantage
that along with reverski and jousting just dont make it feel like a fight, and against anyone good with more SCB/HRPS than hull weight they will HW before their dead soooo there is no "win / reward" for either PVP player
Spot on with everything.
I used to play BF actively. Not pro level, but I did a few tournaments. I quit when they started with unlocking special weapons. After that we had to have special rules in matches, compared to on public servers.
Personally I don't consider MMO type PvP to be propper. Any advantage gained by something attached to the character and not the player, is fake skill. A game like Eve where you gain XP as you play, is not real PvP in my book.
Even CQC is rather poorly designed as a PvP platform. There is no real level playing field. It all depends on where you are in the rank up loop.
PvP league was real PvP. If you win PvP league, you are a good combat team.
If PvP is to get any traction in ED, I think it would be wise to implement ungated, balanced variations of it.
Giving players the ability to mulitcrew to cap. ships and fly fighters from them, is an easy/cheap example on how this could be done. There are probably many more.
I don't PvP in Elite for one simple reason. I hate the fact that I, as a human. am highlighted up on peoples scanner. I dislike that fact that I would be a target simply because I am human. I dislike the fact that some people just enjoy attacking other humans for no reason other than because they are human targets.
One reason? meh, sue me.
One reason? meh, sue me.
Well in Elite once you hit max engineering there's not much difference between two ships. You can also do a no engineering league (just A rated, and divided into size categories)
Before 3.0 though, it's a bit of a hurdle to overcome.
CQC was too removed from the mechanics of the main game, and no fixed weapons really puts me off that mode from a flying enjoyment standpoint.
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