How and why is the meta killing the game?! Is it a problem with player expectations?

[Sylveria]

"META" always causes problems with games in that it becomes a "serious business" in terms of competition- instead of entertainment.

Looking at this from a purely "video games" perspective, META kills games because it removes "entertainment value" from games and then it becomes more of a job rather than play.

There simply needs to be balance, rather than everything being about viewing spreadsheets, compiling numbers, and optimization. Not everyone is a "min/maxer" or wants to be an Olympic athlete in everything they do. Not everyone wants to just open the game and play as if it's just an arcade game they're dropping quarters into, either.

The clear difference between the two?
META tends to be much more forceful in its effect- because it's competitive.
Casual gaming is not forceful. Casual gaming could care less whether someone's gear is optimized, etc.

So in essence, do we need to have two different types of games created from the outset so there's a clear difference, or simply make sure there's balance between the two types? Do we need a new "tag" added for all games so there's a clear distinction?

Personally? I don't play games a second job. While I do at times enjoy games with a bit of competitive edge- most of the time it's a way for me to simply wind down from everything I deal with IRL. If I need a second job, I can very well get one. (and be compensated for it, too) Lately there's an advent of some sort that every "multiplayer" game has to be META based on competition, rather than Cooperative and enjoyable to groups of people who just want to engage with each other on a more casual level.

Moral of the story- "Not everything in life has to be a competition."

 

[Valorin]

I had a whole bunch of follow-up questions relating to various points, especially this one. But do you know what? It's Friday afternoon, it's been a long week, I'm tired and I simply can't be bothered with this merry-go-round any more.

So you win. I concede. The game is a perfect implementation of everything FD presented in all of their material from 2012 to the present day. It has no shortcomings, it is in no way less that it could have been, and anyone claiming otherwise is deluded. Have a nice weekend.

Concerning the Kickstarter stuff, also concerning offline mode not being in the game, nobody can criticize that anymore since Frontier offered a full refund for all who feel betrayed because it was missing. So either people took this opportunity or not. Not taking it and complaining is pretty much bonkers.
And yes, I saw all the other things you complained about and to be honest: I don't really care. I didn't even check much what was included in the early concept and didn't make it so far.
The reason is, that developing a game is pretty complex and if I really wanted to understand why some features didn't make it (yet), would require me to dive behind the scene and gather all the facts, because simply complaining about it really doesn't cut it. I rather don't do that and enjoy the game. I'm doing that pretty often actually.

 

[Sylveria]

Concerning the Kickstarter stuff, also concerning offline mode not being in the game, nobody can criticize that anymore since Frontier offered a full refund for all who feel betrayed because it was missing. So either people took this opportunity or not. Not taking it and complaining is pretty much bonkers.
And yes, I saw all the other things you complained about and to be honest: I don't really care. I didn't even check much what was included in the early concept and didn't make it so far.
The reason is, that developing a game is pretty complex and if I really wanted to understand why some features didn't make it (yet), would require me to dive behind the scene and gather all the facts, because simply complaining about it really doesn't cut it. I rather don't do that and enjoy the game. I'm doing that pretty often actually.

Yep. I also wanted "offline" mode, but saw Solo as being a good concession- PG's being a bonus for cooperative play, so I bought the game.

Those who wanted "something else" and continued on complaining (even to this day) really don't have any excuse.

 

[Genus]

Moral of the story- "Not everything in life has to be a competition."

A game with no winners? The issue there is if you're going to make ED out to be a placebo for life, it has to reflect life in a much better way.

For the interim, can you make sure my participation medal is purple? Oooh! with little silver twinkly bits so my night light makes it sparkle and look all lovely.

It relaxes me.

 

[Sylveria]

A game with no winners? The issue there is if you're going to make ED out to be a placebo for life, it has to reflect life in a much better way.

For the interim, can you make sure my participation medal is purple? Oooh! with little silver twinkly bits so my night light makes it sparkle and look all lovely.

It relaxes me.

The real question becomes "who" are you competing against, and for what purpose?

Not everything is dialed up to 11 "survival" mode. Unfortunately, in today's age (fear induction and reinforcement) there's a great many people with that mindset.

You can walk down the street looking over your shoulder constantly... or you can just enjoy a nice relaxing stroll. Either way, you're still walking down the street.

What you "take with you" is up to you.

 

[Genus]

The real question becomes "who" are you competing against, and for what purpose?

Not everything is dialed up to 11 "survival" mode. Unfortunately, in today's age (fear induction and reinforcement) there's a great many people with that mindset.

You can walk down the street looking over your shoulder constantly... or you can just enjoy a nice relaxing stroll. Either way, you're still walking down the street.

What you "take with you" is up to you.

So there are winners?

Well that's okay then!

 

[MottiKhan]

The real question becomes "who" are you competing against, and for what purpose?

Not everything is dialed up to 11 "survival" mode. Unfortunately, in today's age (fear induction and reinforcement) there's a great many people with that mindset.

You can walk down the street looking over your shoulder constantly... or you can just enjoy a nice relaxing stroll. Either way, you're still walking down the street.

What you "take with you" is up to you.

When I walk down the street, I enjoy my leisurely stroll. But I've noticed others looking over their shoulders at me. Making excessive room between themselves and my path and having a generally confused look on their faces.

I think to myself, "I must be winning". Until I realize that I forgot my pants again.

 

[Krieger]

Just ignore the threads you don't like. Or... just don't visit the forums. Everybody happy.

 

[Genus]

When I walk down the street, I enjoy my leisurely stroll. But I've noticed others looking over their shoulders at me. Making excessive room between themselves and my path and having a generally confused look on their faces.

I think to myself, "I must be winning". Until I realize that I forgot my pants again.

This is turning into the dreams vs reality thing again. I mean, who hasn't always wanted to walk through town centre starkers, on a warm day.

Summers coming!

 

[Bonzodog]

See, I often wonder how many backers DBOBE would have gotten if he had said from the beginning that a lot of what was on screen was a hopeful vision that would be likely to take the better part of 10 - 15 years to design, code and implement, and they were just going to start with a basic flyable galaxy simulator and work outwards one feature at a time from there, "give us until 2025" kind of thing?

 

[Sylveria]

See, I often wonder how many backers DBOBE would have gotten if he had said from the beginning that a lot of what was on screen was a hopeful vision that would be likely to take the better part of 10 - 15 years to design, code and implement, and they were just going to start with a basic flyable galaxy simulator and work outwards one feature at a time from there, "give us until 2025" kind of thing?

I dunno, CIG has managed to do quite well financially so far, given SC's progress. Clear difference being that DBOBE actually had the courage to release his instead of locking it away behind an alpha version for years and enticing people with snapshots. For all the crap people give Frontier Developments, they deserve a tremendous amount of credit for being able to stand up in front of their customers and do what they can to improve the game under such criticism and comparison.

 

[ShimEnki]

One complaint left unaddressed leads to more, until it becomes the new normal to complain, like kids getting louder & louder in a classroom to make their voices heard over the clatter, until the teacher comes in & gives us the attention we crave.

Sandro has been engaged with the community today over the KWS, it's helping him to understand the way the game is used, and it's helping the people in that thread to understand what's useful feedback & what's not so much.

The community has been left fallow for so long there is an enormous list of 'feedback' to find in an even bigger pile of clutter that focused feedback & dedicated new threads are probably the only way to deal with it now, but it's being done & that's good.

So it's a mess, but it seems to be getting better. I hope the trend continues.

Well stated CMDR.

I agree, the train is now moving in the right direction and like trains, it has its own momentum and will reach the station if the trend continues.

Tis the season of Optimism Rising

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Is the OP for real, or is this some elaborate trolling attempt? I wonder if people like this even play the game. It seems like they spend more time white knighting on the forums. Undercover devs doing damage control in their spare time? Honestly, I probably wouldn't like people criticizing my work product on a public internet forum either.

 

[krylite]

It's perceived as a major change to gameplay with this first chapter of the beta particularly engineering. It's like a mmorpg game revising their spell list system or revamping how skills progress, or forcing every player to reroll their stats type of major change sometimes after a few years of staying the "same". So it could be unfortunately an overreactive catalyst for players concerned with change to their "character"/ship or game playstyle even if they aren't really as objective as they could be about the changes.

 

[evanevery]

If you can't put yourself in the setting of the game, a future dystopian society in space, you'll never see why we have the systems we have....

I've been visiting our "future dystopian society in space" a lot lately to get away from our current dystopian society in the states...

Just sayin'...

 

[Gortron]

I mean, seriously, the more I think about it the more baffled and disappointed I become. I wonder why a significant portion of the forum posters even bother with the game at all. I don't think this is due to any fault of the game in particular, just maybe player expectations about it. The negativity here hurts my soul, for goodness sake.

Look, I have high hopes for the game as well and would certainly like to see more from it, but damn. Chill out for goodness sake. It's like a bunch of rabid flatulent ducks foaming at the beak around here. Quack!

Sorry if I've compromised your missions in death thralling or something, but taking a step back and looking at the greater picture of things, this mess is the heart I'm left with.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/ilnnoXJ.png

I guess there is a portion of people who don't like playing video games as a pastime.

I don't mean this to be a complaint thread, honestly, it's just an epiphany I came to.

Can't we just play the game sometimes? Can't we just not worry about meaningless grind and credits and materials and crafting for a while? Look, you all suck. I know it, you know it. It's OK to be bad at video games. Don't hate the game. [haha]

Elite: Dangerous is a leisure product when push comes to shove. How people enjoy spending leisure time is entirely subjective.

I guess people like different things.

 

[Jon474]

Well, as i see there are just different ways of thinking. I agree with Isinona example, this man really knows how to have fun and be good at it

There are people who grind missions, do re-logs, farm for best ships in game, farm for engineered modules etc and they think that's how it meant to be played.
And there are people who just fly in canyons with FA Off, who like SRV-riding on planets, who fly to Beagle Point or SagA. For example i like piracy, and i dont care that i spend 2 hours with 1-2 mil profit and you can do 50 mil in 20 minutes.

I really dont understand people who talk about grind, farm and other MMO-stuff. But i guess they cant understand my way of thinking too :d

More +VRep, Cmdr.

Flying happy
Jon
UnEngineered Type-6E

 

[NW3]

...but FD have made absolutely every effort to cater more to the solo player and those that are unwilling to develop flight/loadout skills.

I'm not making an "I hate PG/Solo" rant (I'll save them for a rainy day), but ED clearly caters to the solo player too much to be any kind of true natural galaxy.

Perception is a funny thing. I'm an explorer and spend most of my time in solo. To me, it seems like FD is focused on combat and PvP. They keep adding weapons, most of the engineers seem to primarily devoted to combat, they've added wings and multi-player, etc. all of which seem to benefit combat.

 

[Genus]

It's perceived as a major change to gameplay with this first chapter of the beta particularly engineering. It's like a mmorpg game revising their spell list system or revamping how skills progress, or forcing every player to reroll their stats type of major change sometimes after a few years of staying the "same". So it could be unfortunately an overreactive catalyst for players concerned with change to their "character"/ship or game playstyle even if they aren't really as objective as they could be about the changes.

It's been tweaked in a few places. Calling it a major change, is a bit poetic. Even with C&P.

 

[Nejamai]

dont forget you paid for it!