Are buying the larger ships really worth it, for the cost?

[kris44dad]

Once I saved up about 250 million, I bought and equipped a python for appox., 150 million. While it is a nice ship, I have to admit I am a little disappointed. I expected it to fare better in combat, for the money I spent. I saw all the warnings on YouTube that the python doesn't pitch fast enough. It really doesn't. A smaller ship can maneuver to stay out of the reticle. My bad.

It has got me to thinking. Are ships like the Anaconda the same way? For all that money and equipment, do the other ships take pot shots until I are forced to withdraw? Or am I just doing it wrong? By the time the target gets in my reticle, I get one shot, it has already taken it's shots at me, and passes to my stern.

 

[GJ51]

Once you have a few Billion in the bank,cost is irrelevant.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Once I saved up about 250 million, I bought and equipped a python for appox., 150 million. While it is a nice ship, I have to admit I am a little disappointed. I expected it to fare better in combat, for the money I spent. I saw all the warnings on YouTube that the python doesn't pitch fast enough. It really doesn't. A smaller ship can maneuver to stay out of the reticle. My bad.

It has got me to thinking. Are ships like the Anaconda the same way? For all that money and equipment, do the other ships take pot shots until I are forced to withdraw? Or am I just doing it wrong? By the time the target gets in my reticle, I get one shot, it has already taken it's shots at me, and passes to my stern.

It are one part you, one part the ship.

The Big Ships, with one notable exception, turn, pitch and roll like Big Ships - that is, slowly and laborously.

Which is where Turret-mounted weapons and fighter hangers come in to play. Turrets track quite nicely and will be on-target and firing long before you can come about. Fighters are tiny and extremely maneuverable, and superb at discouraging other ships from hiding behind you.

The exception to this would be the Beluga, which maneuvers like a ship about half its size.

It takes some time and some experience to pilot a large ship well, but once you've gotten a feel for them, they are rewarding in their own way.

 

[jonesskill]

Cutter - Fast multi role ship, can carry tons of cargo - Have the best defense in this game - Worth it
Anaconda: Versatille, can do anything with a good efficiency - Worth it.
Corvette: Anaconda that turns a little better and can carry a little more stuff jumping like a combat ship that she don't are. ( Strange, in the description says she is a combat ship not a armed CARGO SHIP) - Don't worth the money, imagine money+rank grind.

I really want to understand why they created the Corvette? I'ts not suposed to be a COMBAT ship?
Why she have better multi-purpose internals than the multi purpose anaconda, why she is slower than the conda, why she are so overweighted? (Bla bla bla about armor, that means nothing -hardness-).
Fdev, i'ts possible to make the corvette like a FDL but in a BIG scale? I need a large combat ship, not another multipurpose one.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

After flying a Type-9 Heavy, the Python feels like a super agile ship.

 

[kris44dad]

It are one part you, one part the ship.

The Big Ships, with one notable exception, turn, pitch and roll like Big Ships - that is, slowly and laborously.

Which is where Turret-mounted weapons and fighter hangers come in to play. Turrets track quite nicely and will be on-target and firing long before you can come about. Fighters are tiny and extremely maneuverable, and superb at discouraging other ships from hiding behind you.

The exception to this would be the Beluga, which maneuvers like a ship about half its size.

It takes some time and some experience to pilot a large ship well, but once you've gotten a feel for them, they are rewarding in their own way.

I assumed the turreted variants fire at a hostile target automatically once in range, provided they have line of sight of the target from their location on the hull. Correct or not? If all your offensive weapons are turreted, is recicle position become irrelevant?

Never mind, I found a video on it.

 

[WR3ND]

Depends on your preferred play style, I suppose. I don't care for how the larger ships handle. The biggest ship I care to occasionally use is the Python.

I think getting dirty drives on the Python is generally recommended. It's a good platform for modding with the Engineers.

 

[GraXXoR]

If the universe were real, they would be ludicrously overpriced as implemented currently by DBOBE... no military would use them when a raft of Vultures could wipe out 20-50 times their value in a skirmish. Couriers with 1/3 the shields of an Anaconda at 1/50 of the price would be legion and wipe the floor with everything.

A 9MW power supply costs about 1000 credits and weighs a tonne, but a 36 MW power supply costs 160,000,000 and weighs 160 tonnes or something... (these figures are off the top of my head) .
A sensor for an Eagle costs about 2000 credits and weighs a tonne but one with just slightly more capability (8km instead of 6km) weighs 160 tonnes and again costs 100,000,000 or something ridiculous.

They only exist in this game with their current power level for balance reasons since elite is a single player game with some multiplayer aspects tacked on as a kind of DRM...

"Real" large ships costing 1+BN would require vastly more crew, like 10~100 and have massively powerful weapons, much slower handling and would have shields commensurate with their size, not just 20% stronger than a FDL.

A power plant that weighed 80 times more would produce far more than 4 times the power or they would just use 4 x 1T power plants.

The big ships were just added for a laugh and to go "cor, look how big it is..." when in actual fact it's 150m of wasted space. Look at the original Type 9... A monster weighing a thousand tonnes that could only hold about 4xxT of cargo. Someone modelled it and showed that the cargo hold was about 5% of the volume of the ship or something ridiculous like that.

TLDR: Big ships are horribly broken by design for single player balance purposes.


--- edit:

In a group battle where all the players are the best they could be, which team would you choose:

The 3 crew multicrew A-graded anaconda @800M or a wing of 3 A graded FASs @ 60M each?

Or even 2 FASs with Ace pilots against a single Annie or Corvette with an Ace crew of three?

 

[jonesskill]

If the universe were real, they would be ludicrously overpriced as implemented currently by DBOBE... no military would use them when a raft of Vultures could wipe out 20-50 times their value in a skirmish. Couriers with 1/3 the shields of an Anaconda at 1/50 of the price would be legion and wipe the floor with everything.

A 9MW power supply costs about 1000 credits and weighs a tonne, but a 36 MW power supply costs 160,000,000 and weighs 160 tonnes or something... (these figures are off the top of my head) .
A sensor for an Eagle costs about 2000 credits and weighs a tonne but one with just slightly more capability (8km instead of 6km) weighs 160 tonnes and again costs 100,000,000 or something ridiculous.

They only exist in this game with their current power level for balance reasons since elite is a single player game with some multiplayer aspects tacked on as a kind of DRM...

"Real" large ships costing 1+BN would require vastly more crew, like 10~100 and have massively powerful weapons, much slower handling and would have shields commensurate with their size, not just 20% stronger than a FDL.

A power plant that weighed 80 times more would produce far more than 4 times the power or they would just use 4 x 1T power plants.

The big ships were just added for a laugh and to go "cor, look how big it is..." when in actual fact it's 150m of wasted space. Look at the original Type 9... A monster weighing a thousand tonnes that could only hold about 4xxT of cargo. Someone modelled it and showed that the cargo hold was about 5% of the volume of the ship or something ridiculous like that.

TLDR: Big ships are horribly broken by design for single player balance purposes.

If the universe are real, one large turret shot will take down any vulture (with one shot) , so i think you are underestimating large ships.
I know they don't allow this to balance the gameplay, i'ts just an exemple.

 

[GraXXoR]

If the universe are real, one large turret shot will take down any vulture (with one shot) , so i think you are underestimating large ships.
I know they don't allow this to balance the gameplay, i'ts just an exemple.

Erm... I'm not underestimating them, that's pretty much exactly what I said. They allow these big ships to be piloted without a crew, singly without even NPCs. THAT is why they are gimped to within an inch of their lives and why most PvPers will chose a FDL over a Corvette.

Remember that Huge PAs were supposed to be for planetary bombardment LMFAO... Can't even destry a Cobra MK3 in one shot.... Planetary Bombardment... Who even comes up with this muck?

 

[jonesskill]

Sorry, i read again and now i've understand what you said.

 

[WR3ND]

If the universe are real, one large turret shot will take down any vulture (with one shot) , so i think you are underestimating large ships.
I know they don't allow this to balance the gameplay, i'ts just an exemple.

Vulture might not be the best example. It can have decent shields and holds a size 5 military module now as well, which is the largest you can get. It's a small ship, but it's a lot beefier than many of the other small ships, if not all of them.

It's like a nimble tank with rocket engines strapped on for good measure. One of my favorite ships to use in the game, second only to the Eagles for handling and their fighter jet pilot feel.

 

[jonesskill]

Erm... I'm not underestimating them, that's pretty much exactly what I said. They allow these big ships to be piloted without a crew, singly without even NPCs. THAT is why they are gimped to within an inch of their lives and why most PvPers will chose a FDL over a Corvette.

Remember that Huge PAs were supposed to be for planetary bombardment LMFAO... Can't even destry a Cobra MK3 in one shot.... Planetary Bombardment... Who even comes up with this muck?

And, because corvette acuatlly SUCKS.

Just compare it against the ships of the same size (Cutter, Conda)
Now compare the FDL agains Clipper, Python

 

[jonesskill]

Vulture might not be the best example. It can have decent shields and holds a size 5 military module now as well, which is the largest you can get. It's a small ship, but it's a lot beefier than many of the other small ships, if not all of them.

You're right! She is a little strong for its size... because she is a combat ship;

We can't tell the same about the corvette, and this freak me out.

 

[GraXXoR]

Vulture might not be the best example. It can have decent shields and holds a size 5 military module now as well, which is the largest you can get. It's a small ship, but it's a lot beefier than many of the other small ships, if not all of them.

I think what Jones is saying is that a ship that is about the same size as the twin Huge Weapons Pods on a corvette should be obliterated by a single volley...

IMO a ship that is targetted by weapons of similar volume to itself should cease to exist the moment the trigger is pulled.

 

[Saltyseadog]

The grind for the Corvette was well worth it for me anyway, best ship in the game in my opinion and resulted in me selling off all of the rest of my "fleet" apart from my FDL which I use as a way to keep up with small ship handling and combat skills and also because the sound of G5 thrusters in an FDL really has to heard to be appreciated. The huge credit balance is neither here nor there after a while, sure you never have to worry about rebuys but the experience gained by the time you have bought and paid for a Corvette and an FDL there are very few situations you are likely to ever have to pay for a rebuy.

 

[WR3ND]

I think what Jones is saying is that a ship that is about the same size as the twin Huge Weapons Pods on a corvette should be obliterated by a single volley...

IMO a ship that is targetted by weapons of similar volume to itself should cease to exist the moment the trigger is pulled.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c8cf35/1512633985547/DSC02602.jpg?format=500w

Awesome pic. Are those to scale? The Vulture there actually looks a little larger than I thought it would.

But to your point, considering ramming is a valid combat tactic and the type of environments our ships can handle, I think the strength of the ships in general may be a bit higher than we give them credit for here too, so I don't think we can really make real-world comparisons here, at least not with modern tech.

 

[Starwolfe]

I think what Jones is saying is that a ship that is about the same size as the twin Huge Weapons Pods on a corvette should be obliterated by a single volley...

IMO a ship that is targetted by weapons of similar volume to itself should cease to exist the moment the trigger is pulled.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...c8cf35/1512633985547/DSC02602.jpg?format=500w

Well, to be the Devil's Advocate - the Vulture is not being shot by the same volume as itself.

The projectile the PAs shoot is actually quite a bit smaller than the Vulture. Mostly its just the bloom, or glow from the projectile you actually see.


But I understand the sentiment. The Corvette is quite a bit below the power curve to begin with, add in Engineers and the gap grows as the buffs exasperate the problems.

The Corvette is overdue for a buff, and I think we all know that.
FDev just doesn't want to do it because it remains popular because it is the coolest ship in the yard at the moment.

Probably will change once the Chieftain and Krait comes out - tho I don't know if that'll be enough for them to finally want to fix the Corvette.

 

[GraXXoR]

The grind for the Corvette was well worth it for me anyway, best ship in the game in my opinion and resulted in me selling off all of the rest of my "fleet" apart from my FDL which I use as a way to keep up with small ship handling and combat skills and also because the sound of G5 thrusters in an FDL really has to heard to be appreciated. The huge credit balance is neither here nor there after a while, sure you never have to worry about rebuys but the experience gained by the time you have bought and paid for a Corvette and an FDL there are very few situations you are likely to ever have to pay for a rebuy.

Yes, we each have our own threshold for what is "worth it." As a slightly OCD completionist, I had to get one... However, as with all the other "Huge" ships, It was extremely underwhelming and immersion breaking, though. The Military flagship vessel with only slightly more firepower than a 500 year old freighter repurposed as a militia ship is pretty shameful...

It has Class one guns for heaven's sake.... No these big ships are big for the sake of it... Except for the 2 x Huge on the rear, what the hell is the rest of the ship actually for? There's two weapons every 50 meters and two of them could fit on a Sidewinder.
The whole scale thing is broken...

Geometric size and cost, linear power/strength is just plain broken. Those bigger ships should be medium sized and the big ships should handle like big ships.

Well, to be the Devil's Advocate - the Vulture is not being shot by the same volume as itself.

The projectile the PAs shoot is actually quite a bit smaller than the Vulture. Mostly its just the bloom, or glow from the projectile you actually see.


But I understand the sentiment. The Corvette is quite a bit below the power curve to begin with, add in Engineers and the gap grows as the buffs exasperate the problems.

The Corvette is overdue for a buff, and I think we all know that.
FDev just doesn't want to do it because it remains popular because it is the coolest ship in the yard at the moment.

Probably will change once the Chieftain and Krait comes out - tho I don't know if that'll be enough for them to finally want to fix the Corvette.

The projectiles from a PA are for planetary bombardment according to the lore.

"Even a Small Plasma Accelerator will destroy a well armed hundred tonne ship with a single shot. The large version has been known to be used as a planetary assault weapon, destroying selected areas of cities from orbit. This has a devastating effect on the local population, because the terrifying noise of the beam cutting through the atmosphere can be heard for hundreds of kilometres, and will deafen anyone unprotected in the vicinity."

can't quite one shot a Cobra, though.

 

[jonesskill]

Just to add to this discution:
Comparing ships against another ships of his sizes (Corvette vs Larges, FDL Vs mediums, Vulture vs Smalls)

Corvette:

Agility (Check) -
Less internals and the good ones Military locked (NO) -
More utilitys than usualy found in the class: (NO)
Worst Jumprange (Check)
Good Speed (NO)
Good Boost Speed (NO)
Better Shields (NO)
Better Weapon Placement (Yes)

FDL:

Agility (Check) -
Less internals and the good ones Military locked (Check) -
More utilitys than usualy found in the class: (Check)
Worst Jumprange (Check)
Good Speed (Check)
Good Boost Speed (Check)
Better Shields (Check)
Better Weapon Placement (Yes)

Vulture:

Agility (Check) -
Less internals and the good ones Military locked (Check) -
More utilitys than usualy found in the class: (Check)
Worst Jumprange (Check)
Good Speed (Check)
Good Boost Speed (Check)
Better Shields (Check)
Better Weapon Placement (Yes)