This may be what the Bulwark Project is about: Automated defense turrets small enough to fit shutdown neutralizers on themselves to target any incoming Thargoids trying to mess with a station. Just to keep them busy long enough for threat response wings to deploy.
The repair of Obsidian Orbital and The Oracle etc - I might actually bust a gut laughing?
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
Because it's all part of a fantastically exciting personal narrative.
This is just the beginning, people seem to think we are at war. I agree with everything you said, but you are talking about an all out war. The devs are understandably playing it safe, attacks have been restricted to Aegis labs, the end result is a community effort to get those stations running, it's just part of the intended story.
Things will likely escalate, am sure the devs have plenty of Thargoid related content planned, things will progress. I'll be interested to see if an Aegis lab pops back up at a repaired station, I somehow doubt it.
Watch to see if AEGIS makes a move to infiltrate a System as a faction ..... that could get interesting.
Imagine after many more weeks/months Obsidian Orbital and/or The Oracle finally get repaired, and then, on the following Thursday tick, the invisible Thargoids turn up and "damages" them againSo back to square one, with X trillion tons of Y required again.
Modern combat 101:
maiming opponent makes more damage than killing them.
Why?
When you kill the enemy (station) you remove the resource and all costs associated with it. Plus you create the urge to repay the favor. If said enemy is cheap and easily replace-able it comes down to who can supply more cannon fodder into the field.
When you maim the enemy... that's the whole different story. Especially the enemy who has high morality standards (like high developed cultures). Maimed enemy is in no way to fight, he lost his combat value. But he still required accommodation: food and shelter. Due to his injuries he required help from highly specialized staff (doctors), medicines, health facilities, etc. Also - maimed soldiers are a hit to morale. They generate costs without providing any benefit to the conflict.
Now - analyze how many materials were needed to rebuild a station. How much effort it required. Now - what would you have for that materials if not used for station's repairs? A battlecruiser? Maybe three. Instead you have a heap of rubble, effort wasted, people are off, resource gone and you are at square one.
So I won't be surprised if repaired stations got attacked again.
Maiming makes more damage...
I never realised the game engine was going through such impressive AI coding... Of course, some people have suggested all we're seeing are basically a bunch of switches being flicked and unchangable outcomes then being presented to us. Wonder which is correct?
82.6% of Turds don't float!
Ah, the old "7.62mm vs 5.56mm" debate.
Shoot somebody with a 7.62mm round and you remove one combatant from the battlefield - by killing them.
Shoot somebody with a 5.56mm round and it's more likely you'll remove 3 or 4 combatants from the battlefield - the casualty and the 2 or 3 people required to help them.
It's not a ringing endorsement for humanity that we make the effort to figure this stuff out. [sad]
I'm a 7.62 vet
In todays warfare, don't just take one combatant down when you can the entire group down
Uhuh.
I think ED is great but it seems like FDev have an affinity for the "MVP" business model rather than creating anything revolutionary.
Maybe they figure that the galaxy, itself, is the USP and everything else is secondary?
I hate to say it but I wouldn't be surprised if the entire extent of the Thargoid "campaign" is to stomp across the bubble and then disappear for a couple of months and then a new wave of 'goids will do it all again.
That would fulfill my expectation that it all has to be ongoing and repeatable.
It doesn't matter how the Thargoid attacks are implemented in the game. There is no difference in the outcome if it was a result of AI or of a FDev employee clicking on a radio button option.
In both cases FDev has complete control over the outcome. On requires a lot of time and effort to achieve what can be achieved much easier.
At its core the "flick a switch" complaint is more about wanting to have more power - the power to change the result. Power to turn the Thargoids into just NPCs with different ships.
In both cases FDev has complete control over the outcome. On requires a lot of time and effort to achieve what can be achieved much easier.
At its core the "flick a switch" complaint is more about wanting to have more power - the power to change the result. Power to turn the Thargoids into just NPCs with different ships.
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personally i am fine with the flick of a switch. FD are the games masters and they are allowed to play god...
I just wish the game hid it a bit more..... ie not "take servers down and whne they come back up changes magically happened"
i would much rather FD flicked a switch, and a mass of thargoids attacked the station and for the next 60 mins or so if anyone went to the station they would SEE the attack from the thargoids. so long as there were enough of them there, they would be effectively invinible, then once the hr is over, the flowers leave and the station is left in the condition we see it in.
ultimately the result is the same, but the excitement of how it got their is a million times better imo.
I just wish the game hid it a bit more..... ie not "take servers down and whne they come back up changes magically happened"
i would much rather FD flicked a switch, and a mass of thargoids attacked the station and for the next 60 mins or so if anyone went to the station they would SEE the attack from the thargoids. so long as there were enough of them there, they would be effectively invinible, then once the hr is over, the flowers leave and the station is left in the condition we see it in.
ultimately the result is the same, but the excitement of how it got their is a million times better imo.
Deleted member 38366
D
On the positive side of things, we got plenty of CGs that for once aren't CGs.
Sure, it's only numbers counting down (required Commodities that apparently don't pay sufficient to be worthwhile), but you can grind for months to no end to see these numbers run down.
Almost unlimited playtime there, just like scanning a hundred thousand Icy Planets and with much shorter travels!
[cue Dav Stott voice]Numbers![/Dav]
What's not to like about that? Who needs entertainment or fun when you can make numbers run on a Screen?
You're not paid to think. Grind! Only a mindlessly grinding Player is a good Player!
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Anyway, the only thing we're missing there IMHO is a less digital ("Thargoid Thursday") but a more seamless approach.
During entirely normal Player activity, suddenly see Thargoids swarm the Station and witness things unfold live. And maybe work to deny or at least stall the attack to slow it down.
I guess that'd be more something like it.
Be a "1st witness", call for help and - similar to Meta Alloys being Bonus effective when coming in timely - allow Players to actually achieve a successful Station Defense, if they rush in and manage a good fight for 24hrs or x Days.
Sure, it's only numbers counting down (required Commodities that apparently don't pay sufficient to be worthwhile), but you can grind for months to no end to see these numbers run down.
Almost unlimited playtime there, just like scanning a hundred thousand Icy Planets and with much shorter travels!
[cue Dav Stott voice]Numbers![/Dav]
What's not to like about that? Who needs entertainment or fun when you can make numbers run on a Screen?
You're not paid to think. Grind! Only a mindlessly grinding Player is a good Player!
-------------
Anyway, the only thing we're missing there IMHO is a less digital ("Thargoid Thursday") but a more seamless approach.
During entirely normal Player activity, suddenly see Thargoids swarm the Station and witness things unfold live. And maybe work to deny or at least stall the attack to slow it down.
I guess that'd be more something like it.
Be a "1st witness", call for help and - similar to Meta Alloys being Bonus effective when coming in timely - allow Players to actually achieve a successful Station Defense, if they rush in and manage a good fight for 24hrs or x Days.
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"Power to turn the Thargoids into just NPCs with different ships" - Really?
I think the major complaints are two fold:-
1) Having little/no logical input into the gameplay. Can't scout them out, prevent, defend, reduce or die trying to stop station attacts.
2) Knowing that what's being offered is in effect just switches being flicked and cut scene gameplay practically offered.
Ultimately here we are at the much lauded and anticipated first hostile attacks by an alien race, with FD having had years to line up their dominoes to give us some gameplay to make the best of the situation, and we've got...? Docking with a heat sink...
ie: In answer to the OP, we of course know that once the station(s) in question are fixed they will never be attacked again. Because FD knowing (1) above, won't want to annoy the community with another repair due to a Thargoid fleet attacking in SOLO during a server tick.
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Even better, players can turn up to defend the station. And maybe win or lose depending on how the battle goes.
The 'server tick' approach and suddenly the station is burning but we didn't even get a battle is ahhh...well it's terrible.
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1) Is requesting the power to prevent, defend or reduce the effect of station attacks. This is asking for making the Thargoids easier, much easier and them having less effect on the galaxy.
If they are extremely powerful, then dying trying to stop station attacks would be futile and result in a lot of frustration/whine.
2) What would be the difference if 10 Meduas and 40 Basilisks attack a station, focus firing on all CMDRs with AX gear and them destroying the station? All happening in 10 minutes.
It would be interesting to see once. And then the complains would start that the players have no chance to prevent it. Players would demand that the Thargoids get nerfed. Players would complain that they weren't there to see it.
The station attacks are not meant to be something players can affect.
Not being able to influence the attacks is exactly the purpose of these attacks - in my opinion.
And if players aren't able to affect the outcome it doesn't really matter if it's a switch that gets flicked or a cut scene or a scripted event or incredibly advanced AI stuff.
to each their own but i disagree.
being able to witness this stuff happening even if we cant stop it is still a worth while feature in and of itsself.
imagine watching Final Destination but having the plane/lorry/theme park crash cut from it
or watching the film titanic but not seeing the big boat sink.
No, it's asking for some meaningful gameplay....
And let's recall right now, CMDRs can solo or Wing up and take on Thargoid ships in battles, and yet when these invisible fleets turn up to stations, CMDR's can't?
It's almost as if some gameplay mechanics simply are being implemented to join things up and give some purpose, meaning and outcome to events taking place, and you're then bending over backwards to excuse it.
Oddly, the outcome might be more interesting that deploying a heatsink while docking.
The point at hand is what's the purpose of implementing stuff in ED if it doesn't offer meaningful, interesting gameplay. You suggest CMDRs being able to get involved in defending stations in anyway would not be benefiticial on this front? Fine, but personally I'd suggest a station being invisibly attacked by a server tick on the whim of an FD employee, doesn't really do that.
You honestly think even Thargoids initially being around some of these stations during evactuations might not be more interesting? And therefore CMDRs needing to work togethor in evacuation and defense?
Personally I'd have liked mechanics to have been implemented over the past 1-2yrs to do with station blockades, and convoy escort/protection for example, bringing CQC type fighter tours of duty (eg: 30-90mins) into the core game, that could have improved core gameplay, and then been leveraged for Thargoid gameplay. As it is though, we have what mechanics having been implemented over the past X years to make the most out of this?
But you're seemingly under the notion that not being able to undertake gameplay on the back of these events is for the best?
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And now imagine viewers demanding to be able to change these events
Remember the first hyperdictions? The complains about them just being "cut scenes"?
You might like that, others apparently don't like it.
I think some good cut scenes or events that can't be changed would be cool, not denying it - it just wouldn't change that much on a larger scale.
Just look at this threat how many commenters want to be able to defend or prevent the station attacks. That's why I get the impression that it is not about having something nice to look at in the game, but about being able influence that aspect of the story.
You say all that as if it's the only possible scenario or, at least, the best one.
Why would it be a bad thing if it was possible to defeat a Thargoid attack?
Why would you want to implement attacks which were overwhelming?
Would it not be better if, for example, Thargoids started showing up more frequently in systems they planned to attack?
That way, you'd get people making the effort to organise a "'goid-watch" to raise the alert when an attack was thought to be due.
It should be possible to have the 'goids attacking multiple systems at once, thus forcing people to make a decision about where to mount a defence.
Do we rally to defend Obsidian Orbital and let Titan's Daughter and The Oracle burn, do we split our resources and risk losing all battles or do we attempt to fight all battles simultaneously?
When the attack finally comes, let's have 'goids spawning throughout the system, heading toward their target slowly over a period of at least 24 hours.
We can interdict them and fight them in small groups or we can focus our attacks on a couple of 'goids at a time.
After the 24 hours is up, the number of 'goids we've destroyed would dictate the strength of the actual attack.
At this point, the 'goids appear near the station, fire their magic beams and the station is defenceless, with it's "health" at 50%, and the 'goids are floating around firing weapons at it to reduce it's health further.
It's then up to us to defend the station until the battle is over.
People need to collect Meta Alloys and deliver them to the station to help repair it while others try to destroy 'goids to weaken the attack.
The attack is over either when the station reaches 0% health, at which point there's a big explosion, or when we get the health back up to 100%, at which point the station's defences come back on-line and the 'goids get smoked.
And, meanwhile, it's likely that a different station in a different system has been critically damaged while we were busy protecting the first one.
Seems like that would be MUCH better than what we've got, without making it "too easy" or removing some of the inevitability from the overall outcome.