Proposal Discussion Kill Warrant Scanner Feedback

[Prorokpl]

The Kill Warrant Scanner could have been the perfect tool to illustrate what it actually means to be a part of the prestigious Pilots' Federation - and in my opinion, the proposed changes here are wasting a golden opportunity to add a much-needed slice of depth and characterisation to our game.

Imagine : you're a Commander. Only members of the Pilots' Federation are allowed to carry that honorific. And as David Braben himself has said, only players can be CMDRs, never the NPCs. It's a hard fact that CMDRs are quite literally on a different playing field from the jobbing NPCs in the galaxy. CMDR-only mission boards at stations are filled with eager mission-givers competing for our attention, and all because we are members of the Pilots' Federation.

And yet...

There is literally nothing in the game to indicate this to the player. With the exception of the lore flavour text tourist beacons actually within the Shinrarta Dezhra system itself (which you can only access either as a backer of the game's Kickstarter, or once you've achieved an Elite rank in game) players are left completely in the dark as to why all these mission givers are offering these gigs, or what role the Pilots' Federation plays in galactic affairs.

So how could the Kill Warrant Scanner help change this?

By actually making it an Official Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner.

By which I mean one that allows CMDRs to act as galactic FBI, able to cross jurisdictions in legal pursuit of wrongdoers. Why else would everyone want to hire us for jobs anyway if it's not for the special leeway accorded members of the Pilots' Federation in completing tasks that either fall into grey areas in legal terms, or are so bound in bureaucratic red tape that an external agency is required to get the job done?

For me, it's simple common sense that the KWS CMDRs use should give them the ability to scan NPC ships for all bounties, anywhere, regardless of jurisdiction or local system state or government (i.e. CMDRs should be able to scan NPCs in anarchy systems and see the bounties on them - no matter where those bounties come from). This would grant CMDRs at least a feel of why everyone in the galaxy seems to want to hire them rather than Joe NPC instead. I mean, isn't this what being a member of the Pilots' Federation, a CMDR, is all about?

And when it comes to KWScanning other players, a different set of rules should apply - obviously, because all players are CMDRs, and I'm talking about a dedicated Pilots' Federation KWS here.

The Pilots' Federation takes a dim view of its members attacking each other for no reason (this has been reiterated many times by David Braben), but it seems perfectly logical to me that the Pilots' Federation would tolerate bounties accrued by CMDRs for attacking NPCs because that often comes with the territory of accepting the 'grey area' jobs I mentioned above. So it would be pure hypocrisy on the Pilots' Federation's part if CMRs were allowed to go around shooting each other for the sake of a 500cr bounty from scanning a private data beacon for instance.

So what I'm proposing is simply this :

-------------------------------------
1. When used on an NPC, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would show all bounties the NPC carries, regardless of geo-political and system boundaries, and legitimise attack on such an NPC if any bounties are found. Local bounties could then be claimed locally, Superpower bounties could be claimed at a station where said Superpower was the dominant faction, and (and this is the different bit, the Pilots' Federation special bit) all other non-local, non-Superpower bounties would be claimed via a 'contact Pilots' Federation' option at a station.


2. When used on a fellow CMDR, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would only show bounties accrued as a result of attacking CMDRs, and specifically NOT bounties accrued from attacking NPCs. Because as I say, what a fellow CMDR gets up to with NPCs is none of another CMDR's business really. But the Pilots' Federation doesn't like its members attacking each other, so if CMDRs do attack each other, then it does become your business. Because it's better all round for the Pilots' Federation if it can keep things 'in the family' so to speak. After all, if word got out that CMDRs were shooting each other all the time, it would undermine the Pilots' Federation's position as the 'go to guys' for all those tough and/or sensitive jobs, wouldn't it? Basically, it means if you've attacked a fellow CMDR you become wanted by the Pilots' Federation - and ONLY by the Pilots' Federation. As such, if you were to destroy a Pilots' Federation wanted ship, you'd have to go to a Pilots' Federation contact to inform them the wrongdoer has been smacked and claim the CMDR bounty.
-------------------------------------



For the TL;DR folk, my proposed Pilot's Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would do this :


If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.
If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

This is WAY better idea than what we have right now. Good job.

+1

 

[Ian Doncaster]

If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.

Having all bounties show up would make sense ... but it should require an aligned-superpower bounty to be in the collection to authorise an attack. (Shoot who you want in Anarchy, of course, as always)

Otherwise why bother having separate jurisdictions at all - we could just have the Imperial Federal Alliance of Independents as a single superpower for all factions.

(Personally I'd like the "extradition" agreements between Independent factions to be patchier - regional-based, or only between ones of the same ethos, etc. - but that's probably way too much complexity in practice and best to keep it simple)

If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

No. Pilots should expect that as a result of doing "grey area" stuff they make enemies who want them dead (but will settle for "mildly inconvenienced by a rebuy") and are quite happy to pay other PF commanders to do that (because who else would you send?)

If you don't want that, then either don't do illegal stuff, don't fly the ship you use for illegal stuff routinely for other purposes, or regularly clean the bounties off it. If this means that illegal and grey area missions need to pay better, then sure, increase the pay. Surface scans are fine - you get a few hundred credits of bounty for a few million credits of mission, so that's easy to clear. Illegal assassinations and especially illegal massacres, on the other hand, will need a really big pay rise compared with 2.4.

Otherwise you get the silly situation where someone who goes to a CG and blows up a trader is (correctly!) a valid target ... but someone who goes to a CG system, blows up a few hundred system security, puts it into Lockdown, and stops any traders delivering any cargo at all can get away with it basically consequence-free by simply leaving the system.

 

[DARGAN]

I'd have thought criminality being tied to a "hot" ship instead of a specific commander created that respite. A hot ship IMO should still be punishable in any jurisdiction, it's just not as easy to identify when not in a wanted jurisdiction, which is kind of the why the KWS existed in the first place. Remember a KWS isn't going to find anything on a clean ship.

it gets complicated lol, the notoriety is related to the commander on the other hand.

so maybe in the case of level 2 and higher notoriety (or galactic criminal), allow this to be discovered bounty in all systems, maybe to compensate add galactic criminal npc.

 

[Orange Sheets]

Have I missed anything?

Yes. You have missed the flavour thing Alec Turner just pointed out: with the proposed system the NPC baddies have much less flair, history and feel in them. Granted, the old KWS way isn't much in that field either, but it is much more than what is presented in 3.0.

Also the BGS side. If a criminal is wanted by several factions, then killing him (or cashing in the bounties) is a positive thing for several factions. And it also creates more feel to being a bounty hunter.

If I win a NPC with different bounties in several systems, it makes me travel more and possibly dock at stations where I would never dock otherwise.

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

The Kill Warrant Scanner could have been the perfect tool to illustrate what it actually means to be a part of the prestigious Pilots' Federation - and in my opinion, the proposed changes here are wasting a golden opportunity to add a much-needed slice of depth and characterisation to our game.

Imagine : you're a Commander. Only members of the Pilots' Federation are allowed to carry that honorific. And as David Braben himself has said, only players can be CMDRs, never the NPCs. It's a hard fact that CMDRs are quite literally on a different playing field from the jobbing NPCs in the galaxy. CMDR-only mission boards at stations are filled with eager mission-givers competing for our attention, and all because we are members of the Pilots' Federation.

And yet...

There is literally nothing in the game to indicate this to the player. With the exception of the lore flavour text tourist beacons actually within the Shinrarta Dezhra system itself (which you can only access either as a backer of the game's Kickstarter, or once you've achieved an Elite rank in game) players are left completely in the dark as to why all these mission givers are offering these gigs, or what role the Pilots' Federation plays in galactic affairs.

So how could the Kill Warrant Scanner help change this?

By actually making it an Official Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner.

By which I mean one that allows CMDRs to act as galactic FBI, able to cross jurisdictions in legal pursuit of wrongdoers. Why else would everyone want to hire us for jobs anyway if it's not for the special leeway accorded members of the Pilots' Federation in completing tasks that either fall into grey areas in legal terms, or are so bound in bureaucratic red tape that an external agency is required to get the job done?

For me, it's simple common sense that the KWS CMDRs use should give them the ability to scan NPC ships for all bounties, anywhere, regardless of jurisdiction or local system state or government (i.e. CMDRs should be able to scan NPCs in anarchy systems and see the bounties on them - no matter where those bounties come from). This would grant CMDRs at least a feel of why everyone in the galaxy seems to want to hire them rather than Joe NPC instead. I mean, isn't this what being a member of the Pilots' Federation, a CMDR, is all about?

And when it comes to KWScanning other players, a different set of rules should apply - obviously, because all players are CMDRs, and I'm talking about a dedicated Pilots' Federation KWS here.

The Pilots' Federation takes a dim view of its members attacking each other for no reason (this has been reiterated many times by David Braben), but it seems perfectly logical to me that the Pilots' Federation would tolerate bounties accrued by CMDRs for attacking NPCs because that often comes with the territory of accepting the 'grey area' jobs I mentioned above. So it would be pure hypocrisy on the Pilots' Federation's part if CMRs were allowed to go around shooting each other for the sake of a 500cr bounty from scanning a private data beacon for instance.

So what I'm proposing is simply this :

-------------------------------------
1. When used on an NPC, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would show all bounties the NPC carries, regardless of geo-political and system boundaries, and legitimise attack on such an NPC if any bounties are found. Local bounties could then be claimed locally, Superpower bounties could be claimed at a station where said Superpower was the dominant faction, and (and this is the different bit, the Pilots' Federation special bit) all other non-local, non-Superpower bounties would be claimed via a 'contact Pilots' Federation' option at a station.


2. When used on a fellow CMDR, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would only show bounties accrued as a result of attacking CMDRs, and specifically NOT bounties accrued from attacking NPCs. Because as I say, what a fellow CMDR gets up to with NPCs is none of another CMDR's business really. But the Pilots' Federation doesn't like its members attacking each other, so if CMDRs do attack each other, then it does become your business. Because it's better all round for the Pilots' Federation if it can keep things 'in the family' so to speak. After all, if word got out that CMDRs were shooting each other all the time, it would undermine the Pilots' Federation's position as the 'go to guys' for all those tough and/or sensitive jobs, wouldn't it? Basically, it means if you've attacked a fellow CMDR you become wanted by the Pilots' Federation - and ONLY by the Pilots' Federation. As such, if you were to destroy a Pilots' Federation wanted ship, you'd have to go to a Pilots' Federation contact to inform them the wrongdoer has been smacked and claim the CMDR bounty.
-------------------------------------



For the TL;DR folk, my proposed Pilot's Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would do this :


If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.
If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

THIS IS THE BEST IDEA I HAVE SEEN SO FAR

 

[JesusOnEez]

A little note here: if you swap firing groups mid-scan, it will NOT disrupt scanning if KWS is mapped to both groups and on the same button.

Example:
FG1 - Lasers and KWS on LMB, MCs on RMB
FG2 - KWS on LMB

You fly around with FG2 active (it acts as a sort of "gun safety"). Once you have a target, start KWSing it - and switch firing groups mid-scan. Keep holding fire button (LMB in this case). Lasers will start firing, and KWS will finish its scan (unless interrupted somehow).

This tactic is standard for RES bounty hunting. For best result, use long-range lasers and long-range KWS (preferably with same range as lasers - G5 LR C-class KWS is wonderful for this).

Oooh, did not know that. Thanks!

 

[nrage]

on this point D, is not that the intended effect ? it seems obvious to me that we must give the criminal a little respite.

a criminal who does not have notoriety should not be constantly pursued and destroyed by bounty hunters.. a small non-murderous criminal should be quieter than a criminal with notoriety.. for them I find it normal that he finds respite in an anarchies system.

You're correct, this was the intended change brought about by the C&P changes in 3.0. And.. there isn't really any issue with this change, IMO, WRT player bounty hunters and player criminals. I agree criminals deserve a place to go to evade capture. That said, I think it would be a fun mechanic if the truly notorious could be detected and captured even here (perhaps only if/when they have interstellar bounties, for example).

But.. the issue arises where, for example, you're a player trying to influence who controls the system. Lets say, your player faction has expanded there and you want to "take over". To do so, you need to push your faction, and given you don't yet own any stations/outposts/etc this leaves only a few options. One of these is handing in bounties related to your faction. But, with 3.0 changes in place you cannot collect those bounties in the system (Issue D).

This isn't the end of the world, for the given example because you could collect bounties for your faction elsewhere and simply hand them in here. But, imagine you want to take a local anarchy faction to the top, a faction which exists nowhere else. You literally cannot acquire a bounty for that faction anywhere, not locally (Issue D) and not anywhere else (Issue D - they don't count as independent). So, this option is no longer possible with 3.0 rules in place.

Ok, now imagine your player faction is an anarchy faction.. you cannot collect bounties related to your faction anywhere except (perhaps) in systems controlled by other non-anarchy factions. Which means, if you do manage to take control of a system you lose the ability to collect bounties there to aid your faction.

This all makes me wonder.. do anarchy factions have some other way to gain influence, when they don't control a station/outpost? You can do missions for them, and commit other crimes to negatively affect the non-anarchy controlling faction, but there is no other task which is an anarchy analogue of bounty hunting, right?

I also wonder.. do anarchy factions even issue "bounties"? They probably issue "hits" instead, but it amounts to the same thing.. I actually don't know how the current pre-3.0 system works in this respect (my own faction is Empire aligned).

 

[raymondo the great]

Hello Commanders!

Thank you for your continued interest and discussion.

For clarity, I'm going to list the major issues folk have, as I'm seeing it currently.

Note: Controlling faction = the faction with the most influence, whose jurisdiction covers all deep space within a system.

A) The revised proposal does not allow me to earn as many credits as the 2.4 system. Because I can only detect bounties aligned with the controlling faction's superpower (counting independent as a superpower for this purpose only), I am potentially missing out on detecting lots of bounties.

B) The revised proposal does not allow me to gain as much reputation as the 2.4 system. Because reputation is gained by handing in bounty claims, I cannot detect and gather claims for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

C) The revised system loses reputation gaining tactics compared to the 2.4 system. Any sort of mechanic combining bounties loses the ability for me to choose which bounty I hand in and which one I ditch, controlling who gets reputation. In addition, not being able to detect all bounties in a system means that I can't ever choose to hand in bounties for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

D) The revised system makes anarchy systems useless for bounty hunters compared to the 2.4 system. Because the KWS detects crimes lined to the controlling faction's superpower, and anarchies (jurisdictions created by criminal factions) are not connected to superpowers (even independents as a superpower), then no bounties are detected.

Have I missed anything?

I would add that treating independents as a superpower is also undesirable because they are not a superpower and many simply would not co-operate

 

[nrage]

If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.
If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

+1. This is similar to an idea I had a little while ago, specifically where I said:

I think it "makes sense" for the KWS to detect superpower OR interstellar bounties EVEN in anarchy systems. I know Sandro and team want to make Anarchies a place where player "bad guys" can go to avoid repercussions, so perhaps the KWS only detects the latter (the interstellar bounties) meaning only the really bad guys can be "brought to justice" and only with a KWS scan (which they could avoid using a number of tactics to break the scan or simply escape in time).

Your reasoning for this is better though, and I like it

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The Kill Warrant Scanner could have been the perfect tool to illustrate what it actually means to be a part of the prestigious Pilots' Federation - and in my opinion, the proposed changes here are wasting a golden opportunity to add a much-needed slice of depth and characterisation to our game.

Imagine : you're a Commander. Only members of the Pilots' Federation are allowed to carry that honorific. And as David Braben himself has said, only players can be CMDRs, never the NPCs. It's a hard fact that CMDRs are quite literally on a different playing field from the jobbing NPCs in the galaxy. CMDR-only mission boards at stations are filled with eager mission-givers competing for our attention, and all because we are members of the Pilots' Federation.

And yet...

There is literally nothing in the game to indicate this to the player. With the exception of the lore flavour text tourist beacons actually within the Shinrarta Dezhra system itself (which you can only access either as a backer of the game's Kickstarter, or once you've achieved an Elite rank in game) players are left completely in the dark as to why all these mission givers are offering these gigs, or what role the Pilots' Federation plays in galactic affairs.

So how could the Kill Warrant Scanner help change this?

By actually making it an Official Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner.

By which I mean one that allows CMDRs to act as galactic FBI, able to cross jurisdictions in legal pursuit of wrongdoers. Why else would everyone want to hire us for jobs anyway if it's not for the special leeway accorded members of the Pilots' Federation in completing tasks that either fall into grey areas in legal terms, or are so bound in bureaucratic red tape that an external agency is required to get the job done?

For me, it's simple common sense that the KWS CMDRs use should give them the ability to scan NPC ships for all bounties, anywhere, regardless of jurisdiction or local system state or government (i.e. CMDRs should be able to scan NPCs in anarchy systems and see the bounties on them - no matter where those bounties come from). This would grant CMDRs at least a feel of why everyone in the galaxy seems to want to hire them rather than Joe NPC instead. I mean, isn't this what being a member of the Pilots' Federation, a CMDR, is all about?

And when it comes to KWScanning other players, a different set of rules should apply - obviously, because all players are CMDRs, and I'm talking about a dedicated Pilots' Federation KWS here.

The Pilots' Federation takes a dim view of its members attacking each other for no reason (this has been reiterated many times by David Braben), but it seems perfectly logical to me that the Pilots' Federation would tolerate bounties accrued by CMDRs for attacking NPCs because that often comes with the territory of accepting the 'grey area' jobs I mentioned above. So it would be pure hypocrisy on the Pilots' Federation's part if CMRs were allowed to go around shooting each other for the sake of a 500cr bounty from scanning a private data beacon for instance.

So what I'm proposing is simply this :

-------------------------------------
1. When used on an NPC, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would show all bounties the NPC carries, regardless of geo-political and system boundaries, and legitimise attack on such an NPC if any bounties are found. Local bounties could then be claimed locally, Superpower bounties could be claimed at a station where said Superpower was the dominant faction, and (and this is the different bit, the Pilots' Federation special bit) all other non-local, non-Superpower bounties would be claimed via a 'contact Pilots' Federation' option at a station.


2. When used on a fellow CMDR, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would only show bounties accrued as a result of attacking CMDRs, and specifically NOT bounties accrued from attacking NPCs. Because as I say, what a fellow CMDR gets up to with NPCs is none of another CMDR's business really. But the Pilots' Federation doesn't like its members attacking each other, so if CMDRs do attack each other, then it does become your business. Because it's better all round for the Pilots' Federation if it can keep things 'in the family' so to speak. After all, if word got out that CMDRs were shooting each other all the time, it would undermine the Pilots' Federation's position as the 'go to guys' for all those tough and/or sensitive jobs, wouldn't it? Basically, it means if you've attacked a fellow CMDR you become wanted by the Pilots' Federation - and ONLY by the Pilots' Federation. As such, if you were to destroy a Pilots' Federation wanted ship, you'd have to go to a Pilots' Federation contact to inform them the wrongdoer has been smacked and claim the CMDR bounty.
-------------------------------------



For the TL;DR folk, my proposed Pilot's Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would do this :


If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.
If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

spot on CMDR (I guess that should be Right onn CMDR!)

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Hello Commanders!

Thank you for your continued interest and discussion.

For clarity, I'm going to list the major issues folk have, as I'm seeing it currently.

Note: Controlling faction = the faction with the most influence, whose jurisdiction covers all deep space within a system.

A) The revised proposal does not allow me to earn as many credits as the 2.4 system. Because I can only detect bounties aligned with the controlling faction's superpower (counting independent as a superpower for this purpose only), I am potentially missing out on detecting lots of bounties.

B) The revised proposal does not allow me to gain as much reputation as the 2.4 system. Because reputation is gained by handing in bounty claims, I cannot detect and gather claims for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

C) The revised system loses reputation gaining tactics compared to the 2.4 system. Any sort of mechanic combining bounties loses the ability for me to choose which bounty I hand in and which one I ditch, controlling who gets reputation. In addition, not being able to detect all bounties in a system means that I can't ever choose to hand in bounties for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

D) The revised system makes anarchy systems useless for bounty hunters compared to the 2.4 system. Because the KWS detects crimes lined to the controlling faction's superpower, and anarchies (jurisdictions created by criminal factions) are not connected to superpowers (even independents as a superpower), then no bounties are detected.

Have I missed anything?

Yes, that covers the remaining issues as far as I can tell.

 

[rootsrat]

There is something that Sandro said that got me thinking though:

There are no interstellar bounties - the KWS effectively subsumes this role. However, because all bounties are individual, reputation gain is retained for them.

Is the KWS incompatible with the new system precisely because of interstellar bounties? Once all the bounties are combined into a new type, the Interstellar Bounty, there is no longer rep spread across all the factions for turning in the vouchers. There is no revealing all of those faction's bounties when a ship is scanned by KWS. There is just one, combined Interstellar Bounty, that KWS perhaps cannot handle with the current 2.4 code around it?

Because otherwise I can't really see how the KWS is actually incompatible with the new system (and no details were provided either).

Just some food for thought.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

The Kill Warrant Scanner could have been the perfect tool to illustrate what it actually means to be a part of the prestigious Pilots' Federation - and in my opinion, the proposed changes here are wasting a golden opportunity to add a much-needed slice of depth and characterisation to our game.

Imagine : you're a Commander. Only members of the Pilots' Federation are allowed to carry that honorific. And as David Braben himself has said, only players can be CMDRs, never the NPCs. It's a hard fact that CMDRs are quite literally on a different playing field from the jobbing NPCs in the galaxy. CMDR-only mission boards at stations are filled with eager mission-givers competing for our attention, and all because we are members of the Pilots' Federation.

And yet...

There is literally nothing in the game to indicate this to the player. With the exception of the lore flavour text tourist beacons actually within the Shinrarta Dezhra system itself (which you can only access either as a backer of the game's Kickstarter, or once you've achieved an Elite rank in game) players are left completely in the dark as to why all these mission givers are offering these gigs, or what role the Pilots' Federation plays in galactic affairs.

So how could the Kill Warrant Scanner help change this?

By actually making it an Official Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner.

By which I mean one that allows CMDRs to act as galactic FBI, able to cross jurisdictions in legal pursuit of wrongdoers. Why else would everyone want to hire us for jobs anyway if it's not for the special leeway accorded members of the Pilots' Federation in completing tasks that either fall into grey areas in legal terms, or are so bound in bureaucratic red tape that an external agency is required to get the job done?

For me, it's simple common sense that the KWS CMDRs use should give them the ability to scan NPC ships for all bounties, anywhere, regardless of jurisdiction or local system state or government (i.e. CMDRs should be able to scan NPCs in anarchy systems and see the bounties on them - no matter where those bounties come from). This would grant CMDRs at least a feel of why everyone in the galaxy seems to want to hire them rather than Joe NPC instead. I mean, isn't this what being a member of the Pilots' Federation, a CMDR, is all about?

And when it comes to KWScanning other players, a different set of rules should apply - obviously, because all players are CMDRs, and I'm talking about a dedicated Pilots' Federation KWS here.

The Pilots' Federation takes a dim view of its members attacking each other for no reason (this has been reiterated many times by David Braben), but it seems perfectly logical to me that the Pilots' Federation would tolerate bounties accrued by CMDRs for attacking NPCs because that often comes with the territory of accepting the 'grey area' jobs I mentioned above. So it would be pure hypocrisy on the Pilots' Federation's part if CMRs were allowed to go around shooting each other for the sake of a 500cr bounty from scanning a private data beacon for instance.

So what I'm proposing is simply this :

-------------------------------------
1. When used on an NPC, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would show all bounties the NPC carries, regardless of geo-political and system boundaries, and legitimise attack on such an NPC if any bounties are found. Local bounties could then be claimed locally, Superpower bounties could be claimed at a station where said Superpower was the dominant faction, and (and this is the different bit, the Pilots' Federation special bit) all other non-local, non-Superpower bounties would be claimed via a 'contact Pilots' Federation' option at a station.


2. When used on a fellow CMDR, a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would only show bounties accrued as a result of attacking CMDRs, and specifically NOT bounties accrued from attacking NPCs. Because as I say, what a fellow CMDR gets up to with NPCs is none of another CMDR's business really. But the Pilots' Federation doesn't like its members attacking each other, so if CMDRs do attack each other, then it does become your business. Because it's better all round for the Pilots' Federation if it can keep things 'in the family' so to speak. After all, if word got out that CMDRs were shooting each other all the time, it would undermine the Pilots' Federation's position as the 'go to guys' for all those tough and/or sensitive jobs, wouldn't it? Basically, it means if you've attacked a fellow CMDR you become wanted by the Pilots' Federation - and ONLY by the Pilots' Federation. As such, if you were to destroy a Pilots' Federation wanted ship, you'd have to go to a Pilots' Federation contact to inform them the wrongdoer has been smacked and claim the CMDR bounty.
-------------------------------------



For the TL;DR folk, my proposed Pilot's Federation Kill Warrant Scanner would do this :


If you scan an NPC, you see all bounties, even in anarchies, and can shoot said NPC with impunity.
If you scan a CMDR, you only see if they're wanted by the Pilots' Federation itself as a result of them having destroyed other CMDRs' ships. Such bounties can only be claimed at Pilots' Federation contacts.

A most excellent suggestion. +1 Rep.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hello Commanders!

Thank you for your continued interest and discussion.

For clarity, I'm going to list the major issues folk have, as I'm seeing it currently.

Note: Controlling faction = the faction with the most influence, whose jurisdiction covers all deep space within a system.

A) The revised proposal does not allow me to earn as many credits as the 2.4 system. Because I can only detect bounties aligned with the controlling faction's superpower (counting independent as a superpower for this purpose only), I am potentially missing out on detecting lots of bounties.

B) The revised proposal does not allow me to gain as much reputation as the 2.4 system. Because reputation is gained by handing in bounty claims, I cannot detect and gather claims for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

C) The revised system loses reputation gaining tactics compared to the 2.4 system. Any sort of mechanic combining bounties loses the ability for me to choose which bounty I hand in and which one I ditch, controlling who gets reputation. In addition, not being able to detect all bounties in a system means that I can't ever choose to hand in bounties for factions that do not match the controlling faction's aligned superpower.

D) The revised system makes anarchy systems useless for bounty hunters compared to the 2.4 system. Because the KWS detects crimes lined to the controlling faction's superpower, and anarchies (jurisdictions created by criminal factions) are not connected to superpowers (even independents as a superpower), then no bounties are detected.

Have I missed anything?

Hi Sandro... I am sure you will already have seen it but i think you should consider the below post. imo it paints a good picture of a system which could work well, and fit logically into lore as well (post by Turjan)


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=6426701&viewfull=1#post6426701

 

[DARGAN]

By which I mean one that allows CMDRs to act as galactic FBI, able to cross jurisdictions in legal pursuit of wrongdoers. Why else would everyone want to hire us for jobs anyway if it's not for the special leeway accorded members of the Pilots' Federation in completing tasks that either fall into grey areas in legal terms, or are so bound in bureaucratic red tape that an external agency is required to get the job done?

I also agree with that,

I called this two messages above .. interpol international police.. similar to official Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner.

that seems to me the most logical, and add NPC in the role of galactic criminal in addition to the players to find bounty in the anarchic system, in fact it is already possible to be a galactic criminal, so this is already partly done.

 

[raymondo the great]

The problem with the whole "we are the FBI" suggestion (too long didn't quote) is really quite simple:

Despite those claiming the contrary it does not fit with the lore!

The pilots fed is not some uber space cops. It is more like a Union! One hated by many powers across the galaxy, we are a bunch of mercs! We may bounty hunt for money, we may trade, we may run missions for whoever, but it's a merc faction writ large! Factions want us to do stuff because it's the best merc group in the galaxy, but they also generally don't like us to start with which you can tell if you read the "neutral" rep "welcome chat"

Citation: Don't have it to hand but there is an hour long vid of Braben talking about all this - from the 2.1 launch livestream IIRC. He talks about all this, including why they are moderately antagonistic to start with, that we are itinerant pilots no one really likes as a group etc etc

In summary: Idea goes against the entire vision of the game as explained by the man with the vision!

 

[Turjan]

The problem with the whole "we are the FBI" suggestion (too long didn't quote) is really quite simple:

Despite those claiming the contrary it does not fit with the lore!

The pilots fed is not some uber space cops. It is more like a Union! One hated by many powers across the galaxy, we are a bunch of mercs! We may bounty hunt for money, we may trade, we may run missions for whoever, but it's a merc faction writ large! Factions want us to do stuff because it's the best merc group in the galaxy, but they also generally don't like us to start with which you can tell if you read the "neutral" rep "welcome chat"

Citation: Don't have it to hand but there is an hour long vid of Braben talking about all this - from the 2.1 launch livestream IIRC. He talks about all this, including why they are moderately antagonistic to start with, that we are itinerant pilots no one really likes as a group etc etc

In summary: Idea goes against the entire vision of the game as explained by the man with the vision!

True, the PF isn't the FBI - I've always seen it more as a "Gentleman's Club", or more precisely "A Club of Highly Skilled & Dangerous Pilots Who Have Mutually Agreed Not To Kill Each Other Because They Know It Would Turn Into A Permanent OK Corral Bloodbath But It's OK To Kill Non-club Members Because They're Not In Our Club After All Are They?" ...only that would never fit on the walnut panelled door to the Club would it?

And yes, we start with neutral rep because while we all carry union cards, we're all still freelance pilots, so it's the same as hiring any freelance worker IRL : each CMDR's rep is their own, for good or ill. The fact they're part of the union is just what gets their foot in the job door in the first place.

But I disagree with you about it 'going against the vision'. The PF is basically THE most dangerous group in the galaxy. And the most exclusive group in the galaxy. The proposed ATR would have the de facto powers of a galactic FBI, but they are granted powers by mutual consent of the Superpowers, and are therefore subject to galactic law. And members of the PF are sill very much subject to their authority, because it's their playground we run around in.

But...

While the PF is not above the law (nor should it be) it's also common galactic knowledge that if you want the best bounty hunters, you ask the PF. And that's what I mean by a Pilots' Federation Kill Warrant Scanner : it's a tool that befits our galactic role as (in your very own words!) "the best merc group in the galaxy", which we are. In many cases, authorities such as the ATR can't (or won't) chase a fugitive because they have limited jurisdiction or manpower. But the PF is freelance. If a minor faction knows there are NPC wrongdoers who are a thorn in their side hiding out in an anarchy system, they can't call the ATR to sort that, so...who ya gonna call? The Pilots' Federation of course! We're like galactic Dog the Bounty Hunter basically - we're the ones who are prepared to walk into dodgy bars and pick up a bad lad when the cops won't, so I think it's only fitting we have a tool that literally allows us to do just that. Only in space. But maybe still with some alcohol involved.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The Pilots Federation control the pilots not unlike the Spacing Guild in Dune does.

Call me masochistic, but I'd love it so players get wiped out financially if they are stung for multiple killings. My old playstyle was simply being my own law killing hundreds of ships to alter the BGS and I expected nothing less than to win big or die trying. Since credits are easy to get, engineering is easy to attain and you can swap ships Bruce Wane Batman style maybe the most despotic crime lords should be subject to financial obliteration.

It would be the ultimate survival mode; how long could you last? How desperate would you get to cling onto your billions and exquisite modules?

 

[MillennialDawn]

Hello Commanders!

Thank you for your continued interest and discussion.

For clarity, I'm going to list the major issues folk have, as I'm seeing it currently.

...

Have I missed anything?

Yeah, all of those voices that *don't* have an issue with the changes... Still, it's unsurprising. With a half-baked MMO (a single player game masquerading as a multiplayer) it's not surprising that such issues have arisen. I wait with interest to see how Frontier proposes to plaster over this issue...

 

[DARGAN]

The problem with the whole "we are the FBI" suggestion (too long didn't quote) is really quite simple:

I did not quite understand your whole message, you used words too complicated, the translator made me crazy (no it's ok I read it 3 times lol).

however the word FBI as Interpol (what i have written) font are not really fair, it is here the bounty hunters (a way of playing) which acts as "police" in the anarchic system for example.

actually the police is not in question here it is the use of KWS and the possibility for the bounty hunters to take over or the police do not exist.. and/or be able to make profits in the anarchic system.