The BGS



Signed with love,

The Locusts

Before I could bring myself to bother with this monstrosity the BGS seems to be I have a more fundamental issue with the idea of system flipping. It's WHY at all are you doing it? What do you gain (like a certain sort of missions) that you can't otherwise from just flying a few systems away and get these missions there instead? What is it all about or what am I missing?

Honestly, it's about balls. Nothing but balls.

Open your galaxy map..and look at the map showing who's in charge..see those balls...all we want to do is make them the color we want them to be!:cool:
 
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No, you're not alone...but because this was posted in the BGS subforum (or subsequently moved here from elsewhere) you dissatisfaction with the lack of overarching, cohesive, logic is not going to be echoed.

We will help you understand why this occurs in the game...but most have given up on the way the forest looks...as long as we understand how to make the trees do what we want.

Finally....someone on here makes sense...thank you.

It was originally posted on the main discussion forum but was moved here which is disappointing as this forum is mostly visited by those who actively play and support the BGS rather than the main player base which is who I wanted to hear from....ho hum

If the BGS was designed to be opaque and vague and the players were meant to work it out for themselves then well done FDev...job done. I thought it might make more sense for the BGS to appeal to a wider range of players by having some context and logic and reasoning behind the states that actually makes some sense to the non BGS specialists and PF owners.

Now I know that was never intended I'll leave it there and walk quietly away. Thanks
 
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We will help you understand why this occurs in the game...but most have given up on the way the forest looks...as long as we understand how to make the trees do what we want.

Since you're speaking of trees and forests...

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Before I could bring myself to bother with this monstrosity the BGS seems to be I have a more fundamental issue with the idea of system flipping. It's WHY at all are you doing it? What do you gain (like a certain sort of missions) that you can't otherwise from just flying a few systems away and get these missions there instead? What is it all about or what am I missing?

For me it provides some structure to my play. If all I wanted to do was kill pirates in a res I would probably get bored with the game pretty fast, it would turn into a senseless grind. The same goes for any money making endeavor in game. Having a goal in the BGS I don't really expect to achieve lets me earn the money I need for bigger and better ships without feeling like I'm grinding.

Working in a few systems also helps improve relations with the minor factions and leads to better missions.

The BGS also has impacts on Power Play. Each power has preferred government types for its control systems that provide advantages.

You can do it alone. You just need to pick an isolated system where all the other players don't smash your work. (Me, I'm in a pretty heavily populated and trafficed area, so I don't expect to see much of an impact.
 
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For me it provides some structure to my play. If all I wanted to do was kill pirates in a res I would probably get bored with the game pretty fast, it would turn into a senseless grind. The same goes for any money making endeavor in game. Having a goal in the BGS I don't really expect to achieve lets me earn the money I need for bigger and better ships without feeling like I'm grinding.

Working in a few systems also helps improve relations with the minor factions and leads to better missions.

The BGS also has impacts on Power Play. Each power has preferred government types for its control systems that provide advantages.

You can do it alone. You just need to pick an isolated system where all the other players don't smash your work. (Me, I'm in a pretty heavily populated and trafficed area, so I don't expect to see much of an impact.


For those that just PVE...it also has an impact on prices paid for missions as well as mission types offered, as well as number of missions available.
 
Think of the BGS as a strategy game you can fly around in, and your opponent is a wild animal. You have to play by that animal's rules and because it's an animal it won't tell you what those rules are. You can do certain actions to get that animal generally going in the direction you want it to go, but in the end it's still a wild animal and it has its own thought processes on how it's going to do what you want it to do.
 
Think of the BGS as a strategy game you can fly around in, and your opponent is a wild animal. You have to play by that animal's rules and because it's an animal it won't tell you what those rules are. You can do certain actions to get that animal generally going in the direction you want it to go, but in the end it's still a wild animal and it has its own thought processes on how it's going to do what you want it to do.

This post should be stickied. It's the TL-DR of the entire BGS. :)
 
Before I could bring myself to bother with this monstrosity the BGS seems to be I have a more fundamental issue with the idea of system flipping. It's WHY at all are you doing it? What do you gain (like a certain sort of missions) that you can't otherwise from just flying a few systems away and get these missions there instead? What is it all about or what am I missing?

Because it’s fun.

Seriously. I had far more fun manipulating the BGS to send a Federation faction into Outbreak, sell medicines TO said faction for a profit, and then use those profits to smuggle in weapons to donate to an independent Faction resisting Federal rule, than I would if I just ground missions all day.
 
Nope. Unless a Player does something the influence remains static once you leave it.

Correct. The BGS has an "original" state - the factions who were in charge when the game launched - but unlike the trade simulation, this original state in the political BGS is not a "default" state that the game automatically moves everything back towards. All changes to system ownership are caused by the collective behaviour of CMDRs in those systems, wither deliberate or accidental.

A good statistic to throw around at this point is how the galactic overview of the superpowers (though their superpower-aligned minor factions) have changed since the game launched. Although nearly half of the stations are no longer controlled by the original owning factions, these changes have not been random. The Alliance had grown by 150 percent. The Empire has shrunk slightly. The Federation has shrunk considerably. The number of Independent systems is also increasing. Source data (now a year old). These three facts can be best explained by the following general observations:

- The Alliance tends to attract a higher percentage of "serious" BGS players, who know how to flip systems and who go about doing it in favour of Alliance factions in an organized and professional manner. The Alliance started out small so a large proportionate growth was not too hard to do, but by any measure, the massive increase in territory these player groups have caused is worth congratulating.

- The Empire tends to attract a large number of "Roleplayers" who wanna be in the Empire because it's cool, and their spaceships are cool, bro. So they'll actively support Imperials wherever they find them in power, especially in conflicts with the Federation, but there is less of the organized slog of BGS system-flipping than what we see happening in the Alliance. So growth is minimal. Meanwhile, Indie player groups pick away at systems on the Imperial fringe.

- The Federation has a much smaller group of player supporters, and a large number of newbies since newbie space is in Federation territory. Active, persistent support to flip the BGS in favour of Federation factions is therefore low, and the random actions of newbies has a considerable impact. As the other two superpowers and the Indies do have a more active BGS support base, the Federation will tend to lose ground to the other more organized superpowers.

- A majority of Player Factions are Independent-aligned, in the belief that this is the way to get the most inclusivity and support from prospective members. This is presumably a major contributor to the growth in the Independent factions, largely at the expense of the two main superpowers, since there is no in-game reason for people "just playing the game" to support the Indies, whereas supporting Superpower-aligned minor factions is what you need to do to get the superpower-only ranks and ships; "logically", the Indies should be shrinking, to the gain of all three superpowers, but this is the opposite of what we actually see happening.

- Colonia is entirely Indie space (no Superpowers allowed), so the dozens of new inhabited starsystems added to the game in Colonia and elsewhere in deep space have been wildly skewed in favour of the Indies; only a few Superpower-aligned systems have been added, in the Pleiades and California Nebula sectors.
 
A good statistic to throw around at this point is how the galactic overview of the superpowers (though their superpower-aligned minor factions) have changed since the game launched. Although nearly half of the stations are no longer controlled by the original owning factions, these changes have not been random. The Alliance had grown by 150 percent. The Empire has shrunk slightly. The Federation has shrunk considerably. The number of Independent systems is also increasing. Source data (now a year old). These three facts can be best explained by the following general observations:
To add to this, while the Empire and Alliance are relatively compact, Federal systems are scattered throughout the bubble intermingled with the Independent ones - an Independent faction expanding is likely to overthrow Federal governments wherever it is, while it would need to be somewhere specific to overthrow Empire and Alliance ones.
 
To follow the Feds, Imps or Alliance people is one way indeed. As Independent you can create your own Lore and background. If it attracts and intrigues others who feel overwhelmed by the sheer size of the aforementioned 3 you have the ability to grow.
 
To follow the Feds, Imps or Alliance people is one way indeed. As Independent you can create your own Lore and background. If it attracts and intrigues others who feel overwhelmed by the sheer size of the aforementioned 3 you have the ability to grow.

And then there's the fun of some superpower factions not actually helping (or actively harming) the Powerplay powers which they supposedly are a part of. Hudson and Aisling come to mind. God, this game. Sometimes I just... lurk in the forums, I guess.
 
And then there's the fun of some superpower factions not actually helping (or actively harming) the Powerplay powers which they supposedly are a part of. Hudson and Aisling come to mind. God, this game. Sometimes I just... lurk in the forums, I guess.
That has been a constant complaint. I think you can add Archon to that list as well for Powerplay factions that are so contrary to what they should be in function to what the lore should be.

Heck, even Winters' is backwards. At the Liberal side to the Federation its kind of contrary that they do best with Corporations in charge.
 
Heck, even Winters' is backwards. At the Liberal side to the Federation its kind of contrary that they do best with Corporations in charge.
Winters is a very unusual character though.
- President Halsey is facing a vote of no confidence largely over the mess that was the Lugh war when she disappears along with Vice-President Naylor
- Hudson steps in saying "you want a warmonger, you want a proper warmonger" and takes control shortly after
- Winters, who was Secretary of State throughout the whole Lugh mess, somehow manages not to get any of that foreign policy disaster on her, remains as shadow President as leader of the Liberals, and rebrands the Liberals basically overnight into the nice fluffy pro-society party (reversing most of the policies on issues as diverse as foreign affairs and simulations that she presumably supported strongly enough to get to be the 3rd-highest ranking Liberal in the first place), getting glowing Galnet press coverage about her commitment to principles... and is now managing to combine that with working so closely with the Republican government and their AEGIS diplomatic channels that it's her - not Hudson or Tanner or even some lower-ranking Republican officeholder - who makes all the public comments about the Momoirent [1] activity.

It's impressive. Suspiciously so.

[1] Sure, it's one of her control systems. So how did the activity end up there? It's a mid-tech mid-population industrial/refinery system - hardly the obvious site for groundbreaking military research of galactic importance.
 
A good statistic to throw around at this point is how the galactic overview of the superpowers (though their superpower-aligned minor factions) have changed since the game launched. Although nearly half of the stations are no longer controlled by the original owning factions, these changes have not been random. The Alliance had grown by 150 percent.

An update according to eddb:

  • Feds have lost some 4.28% of the inhabited bubble and are down to 29.1%.
  • The Imps are faring a bit better losing a mite over 1% standing at 25.68%
  • Indys have gained 2.34% of the bubble now 41.08%
  • The Alliance has grown a touch under 3% to 4.14%.

So by my calculations: only 97 years to go before the galaxy is fully green. :p
 
A large part of that Fed loss seems to be by design from FDev.

Neither of the Fed factions are good with Democracy or Confederacy in charge - of which makes up a massive portion of Fed factions.
Winters prefers Corporate - which is only part of the Federal factions.
Hudson needs Feudal and Patronage - of which you will never find as Fed aligned.

Just by design, the Fed powerplay to be successful demands control changes.
 
Is there any way through combat, to directly resist a power trying to expand into uncontrolled systems? Is there a way to directly revolt through combat, against a power and hand them a "US-Vietnam or Soviet-Afghanistan," after they have? As I understand it now, basically when they expand, players vote, do their prep work, and it's a done deal. Resistance is futile. I find it unrealistic that an inhabited system would roll over and accept rule by a foreign power without firing a shot.

Rooks o7
 
Is there any way through combat, to directly resist a power trying to expand into uncontrolled systems? Is there a way to directly revolt through combat, against a power and hand them a "US-Vietnam or Soviet-Afghanistan," after they have? As I understand it now, basically when they expand, players vote, do their prep work, and it's a done deal. Resistance is futile. I find it unrealistic that an inhabited system would roll over and accept rule by a foreign power without firing a shot.

Rooks o7

unfortunately not. control systems can only be changed through powerplay mechanics. Best you can do BGS wise is to flip systems to government types unhelpful to the power.
 
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