Alien archaeology and other mysteries: Breaking News, Theories and Tinfoil Hattery

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Jorki Rasalas said:
That’s good to know, though I think the way the catering CG (after Salomé’s demise) was constructed (either to support it or to hinder it, with no way to get further information on the attendees & therefore membership of The Club) means that they are intended to remain only a background part of the storyline (at least for now).
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Reading Premonition, I always got the feeling that 'The Club' was one of FDs Role playing tools. Their conversations were similar to what one would expect to take place in FDs office. They decisions The Club make are almost always an RP explanation of FDs story decisions and game updates.

The Club can be used as an instigator of almost anything in the human sphere in the ED Galaxy. They seemingly have no control over the Thargoids, that acts like a separate RP tool. They are of course also fully controlled by FD and act as a counterweight to the hidden 'human faction'.
If Guardians or Klaxians show their faces any time soon, the balancing trinity of rock, scissors, paper are in place.
 

DrNoesis

DrNoesis
Posting here for the brain tree fans..

Was messing about with plotting spectrograms of a recent 2min long audio sample I've taken, and realised that it looks a little more synthetic than some that ive seen... possibly a function of the obscene sample rate I used, but reposting here for those that are interested...


HBsp4QEh.png


I dont know, I feel like theres structure there, I just cant figure it out lol.

Full size here
 
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Maligno

Maligno
DrNoesis said:
Posting here for the brain tree fans..

Was messing about with plotting spectrograms of a recent 2min long audio sample I've taken, and realised that it looks a little more synthetic than some that ive seen... possibly a function of the obscene sample rate I used, but reposting here for those that are interested...


https://i.imgur.com/HBsp4QEh.png

I dont know, I feel like theres structure there, I just cant figure it out lol.

Full size here
Click to expand...

That's cool. You don't need sampling rate higher than 40kHz to capture the salient acoustic features. I did an analysis of the audio a while back that you may find interesting:

https://canonn.science/codex/brain-tree-phenomenology-part-2-analysis-of-acoustic-features/
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Tinfoil time: What's up with all the fungus

Fungus plays a central role in Elite biology. A surprisingly large amount of articles in FFE were fungus related and the focus has continued in ED.

Fungus is by far the most dominant life form on airless worlds. We have bark mounds, brain trees and the 'space puffballs.
Barnacles have not been confirmed as fungal, but they are quite similar looking to the bark mounds and are a genetically modified version of a natural life form(according to Braben).

Mycoid is often refereed to as a virus. This is probably not quite true. Both the old lore and the name it self points to Mycoid being of fungal origin. The 'virus' description probably is more linked to is aggressive viral effect, than it's actual genetic background.

Real earth bound fungus are known as effective pesticides, both against insects and other fungi. They can even do 'mind control' on insect and create so called 'zombie ants'. All in all, fungus seem like bad news for Thargoids.

Fungus is also a bit strange in the way that it's often impossible to distinguish between an individual and a large network. A single mushroom is often part of a huge organism. They spread underground and it spreads via spores.


All this has me thinking that maybe the barnacles are controlling the Thargoids and not the other way around. The firefiles are spores that infects the the Thargoids and turns them into zombie-goids. They retain their intelligence, but their will is modified to serve their fungal overlords. They go from barnacle to barnacle, spreading the spores and attack anything that holds devices with fireflies(TS, TP and TL).

So, how can a mushroom be capable of advanced operations like this?
Fungus may have been the new vehicle chosen by the Guardian AI, when they had to abandon the monolith network?

Technology 20 says: "the AIs recognized their vulnerability. They responded by developing their own operational hardware, independent of implanted Guardian users. Frustratingly, the details of these mechanisms have been purged from the record."

They may have chosen to jump over to the brain trees and go on from there? It would explain why the Thargoids react so negatively to Guardian technology.


This would leave the Klaxians as natural uninfected Thargoids, with good reason to go after their mind controlled counterparts.


All this is of course speculative, but it is one way of connecting the dots of what we observe.
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
Han_Zen said:
Fungus plays a central role in Elite biology. A surprisingly large amount of articles in FFE were fungus related and the focus has continued in ED.

Fungus is by far the most dominant life form on airless worlds. We have bark mounds, brain trees and the 'space puffballs.
Barnacles have not been confirmed as fungal, but they are quite similar looking to the bark mounds and are a genetically modified version of a natural life form(according to Braben).

Mycoid is often refereed to as a virus. This is probably not quite true. Both the old lore and the name it self points to Mycoid being of fungal origin. The 'virus' description probably is more linked to is aggressive viral effect, than it's actual genetic background.

Real earth bound fungus are known as effective pesticides, both against insects and other fungi. They can even do 'mind control' on insect and create so called 'zombie ants'. All in all, fungus seem like bad news for Thargoids.

Fungus is also a bit strange in the way that it's often impossible to distinguish between an individual and a large network. A single mushroom is often part of a huge organism. They spread underground and it spreads via spores.


All this has me thinking that maybe the barnacles are controlling the Thargoids and not the other way around. The firefiles are spores that infects the the Thargoids and turns them into zombie-goids. They retain their intelligence, but their will is modified to serve their fungal overlords. They go from barnacle to barnacle, spreading the spores and attack anything that holds devices with fireflies(TS, TP and TL).

So, how can a mushroom be capable of advanced operations like this?
Fungus may have been the new vehicle chosen by the Guardian AI, when they had to abandon the monolith network?

Technology 20 says: "the AIs recognized their vulnerability. They responded by developing their own operational hardware, independent of implanted Guardian users. Frustratingly, the details of these mechanisms have been purged from the record."

They may have chosen to jump over to the brain trees and go on from there? It would explain why the Thargoids react so negatively to Guardian technology.


This would leave the Klaxians as natural uninfected Thargoids, with good reason to go after their mind controlled counterparts.


All this is of course speculative, but it is one way of connecting the dots of what we observe.
Click to expand...

That is a very awesome theory that would serve very well to not only resolve a large number of the odd things we've all noticed about these Thargoids, but also it would just be a very cool storyline!
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
Han_Zen said:
Fungus plays a central role in Elite biology. A surprisingly large amount of articles in FFE were fungus related and the focus has continued in ED.

Fungus is by far the most dominant life form on airless worlds. We have bark mounds, brain trees and the 'space puffballs.
Barnacles have not been confirmed as fungal, but they are quite similar looking to the bark mounds and are a genetically modified version of a natural life form(according to Braben).

Mycoid is often refereed to as a virus. This is probably not quite true. Both the old lore and the name it self points to Mycoid being of fungal origin. The 'virus' description probably is more linked to is aggressive viral effect, than it's actual genetic background.

Real earth bound fungus are known as effective pesticides, both against insects and other fungi. They can even do 'mind control' on insect and create so called 'zombie ants'. All in all, fungus seem like bad news for Thargoids.

Fungus is also a bit strange in the way that it's often impossible to distinguish between an individual and a large network. A single mushroom is often part of a huge organism. They spread underground and it spreads via spores.


All this has me thinking that maybe the barnacles are controlling the Thargoids and not the other way around. The firefiles are spores that infects the the Thargoids and turns them into zombie-goids. They retain their intelligence, but their will is modified to serve their fungal overlords. They go from barnacle to barnacle, spreading the spores and attack anything that holds devices with fireflies(TS, TP and TL).

So, how can a mushroom be capable of advanced operations like this?
Fungus may have been the new vehicle chosen by the Guardian AI, when they had to abandon the monolith network?

Technology 20 says: "the AIs recognized their vulnerability. They responded by developing their own operational hardware, independent of implanted Guardian users. Frustratingly, the details of these mechanisms have been purged from the record."

They may have chosen to jump over to the brain trees and go on from there? It would explain why the Thargoids react so negatively to Guardian technology.


This would leave the Klaxians as natural uninfected Thargoids, with good reason to go after their mind controlled counterparts.


All this is of course speculative, but it is one way of connecting the dots of what we observe.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought there.

I'm a bit dubious about the Braintree's as a vehicle for the Guardian AIs. Their problem was that with the exile of the implanted Guardians who could act as hosts for them, they were restricted to existence only as virtual entities in the network, which they realised left them vulnerable. I don't think switching to what's basically an immobile object solves that problem. Even assuming the braintrees act as another network, then the AI would still be virtual entities, just in another network, and one in which in many ways they would have been even more vulnerable as the abolitionists could have freely destroyed it without any impact on themselves.

Definitely an intriguing concept around the Thargoids though. As a variation on that theme, perhaps a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one. On one half a single distributed organism, which is the hive mind and essentially the brains, and on the other, various other organisms providing the bodies and fulfilling various different roles within the hive. Assuming complete non-sentience in those other organisms then it would be a win-win situation for all involved.

In terms of the Mycoid virus, I've always taken it to be a hybrid whereby the virus provides the vector and transmits modified fungal DNA directly into target cells. That then essentially modifies the target cells and also hijacks the hosts own cell replication methods to replicate and spread the fungal DNA. ... Or something roughly like that anyway :) .
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Thatchinho said:
Interesting thought there.

I'm a bit dubious about the Braintree's as a vehicle for the Guardian AIs. Their problem was that with the exile of the implanted Guardians who could act as hosts for them, they were restricted to existence only as virtual entities in the network, which they realised left them vulnerable. I don't think switching to what's basically an immobile object solves that problem. Even assuming the braintrees act as another network, then the AI would still be virtual entities, just in another network, and one in which in many ways they would have been even more vulnerable as the abolitionists could have freely destroyed it without any impact on themselves.

Definitely an intriguing concept around the Thargoids though. As a variation on that theme, perhaps a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one. On one half a single distributed organism, which is the hive mind and essentially the brains, and on the other, various other organisms providing the bodies and fulfilling various different roles within the hive. Assuming complete non-sentience in those other organisms then it would be a win-win situation for all involved.

In terms of the Mycoid virus, I've always taken it to be a hybrid whereby the virus provides the vector and transmits modified fungal DNA directly into target cells. That then essentially modifies the target cells and also hijacks the hosts own cell replication methods to replicate and spread the fungal DNA. ... Or something roughly like that anyway :) .
Click to expand...

The AI in the brain trees idea is quite dubious. The idea was that a fungal network would replace the monolith network it self, not the guardians as mobile hosts.
The basic nature of the AI is to exist as virtual beings in a network. If threatened this is probably what they would seek, to maintain communication with the other AI. If brain trees have some form of natural communication across space, this would be perfect for the AI. Having individual access to mobile hosts like a guardian, would probably be lower priority.
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
Han_Zen said:
The AI in the brain trees idea is quite dubious. The idea was that a fungal network would replace the monolith network it self, not the guardians as mobile hosts.
The basic nature of the AI is to exist as virtual beings in a network. If threatened this is probably what they would seek, to maintain communication with the other AI. If brain trees have some form of natural communication across space, this would be perfect for the AI. Having individual access to mobile hosts like a guardian, would probably be lower priority.
Click to expand...

Ok, so existence in the braintree network rather than in individual braintrees then. I still think that leaves them more vulnerable though, as the Monolith Network would be unlikely to come under physical attack from the Guardians due to the Guardians themselves relying on it, whereas the braintree network could be freely physically attacked by the Guardians. Also, with the braintrees being immobile, there would be no physical means of escape, which isn't something you'd look for if trying to reduce our vulnerability.

Reading T19 & T20 together:

"The first few generations of AI relied heavily on the monolith network, but they soon evolved into a more distributed model by storing their consciousness within the implants. At this stage, social engineering was being used to ensure the AIs adhered to the same user models as their progenitors. But during the first civil war, most implanted Guardians were exiled, and the AIs recognized their vulnerability. They responded by developing their own operational hardware, independent of implanted Guardian users."

Which IMHO strongly implies that they developed vessels for their consciousnesses rather than shifted them to another network.
 

Louis Calvert

Louis Calvert
Han_Zen said:
Fungus plays a central role in Elite biology. A surprisingly large amount of articles in FFE were fungus related and the focus has continued in ED.

Fungus is by far the most dominant life form on airless worlds. We have bark mounds, brain trees and the 'space puffballs.
Barnacles have not been confirmed as fungal, but they are quite similar looking to the bark mounds and are a genetically modified version of a natural life form(according to Braben).

Mycoid is often refereed to as a virus. This is probably not quite true. Both the old lore and the name it self points to Mycoid being of fungal origin. The 'virus' description probably is more linked to is aggressive viral effect, than it's actual genetic background.

Real earth bound fungus are known as effective pesticides, both against insects and other fungi. They can even do 'mind control' on insect and create so called 'zombie ants'. All in all, fungus seem like bad news for Thargoids.

Fungus is also a bit strange in the way that it's often impossible to distinguish between an individual and a large network. A single mushroom is often part of a huge organism. They spread underground and it spreads via spores.


All this has me thinking that maybe the barnacles are controlling the Thargoids and not the other way around. The firefiles are spores that infects the the Thargoids and turns them into zombie-goids. They retain their intelligence, but their will is modified to serve their fungal overlords. They go from barnacle to barnacle, spreading the spores and attack anything that holds devices with fireflies(TS, TP and TL).

So, how can a mushroom be capable of advanced operations like this?
Fungus may have been the new vehicle chosen by the Guardian AI, when they had to abandon the monolith network?

Technology 20 says: "the AIs recognized their vulnerability. They responded by developing their own operational hardware, independent of implanted Guardian users. Frustratingly, the details of these mechanisms have been purged from the record."

They may have chosen to jump over to the brain trees and go on from there? It would explain why the Thargoids react so negatively to Guardian technology.


This would leave the Klaxians as natural uninfected Thargoids, with good reason to go after their mind controlled counterparts.


All this is of course speculative, but it is one way of connecting the dots of what we observe.
Click to expand...

The other thing that occurred to me after I read your post: Maligno's latest audio research suggests possible links between the fungal life and Guardian obelisks (as I understand his analysis there's very small similarities): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Discussions?p=6436974&viewfull=1#post6436974 So that might lend weight to the idea of the fungal life being some form of later version of the AI vehicle.

And your idea made me think about the Thargoid attacks on stations - I wonder if the heat-buildup in the stations (as a result of damaging the reactors I assume) was deliberate - the actual goal of the attacks.

I don't know anything about fungus, and googling showed me that the subject is extremely broad, but I wonder if the heated stations were an attempt to create an incubator-like effect to speed up growth? IF we assume that some humans might be similarly infected (there's lots of reasons to suspect some are).

And finally - as has been elsewhere noted - those spikes on the Medusa look at a lot like Cordyceps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps

medusa-aymerix-01.jpg

nPnxdRN.png
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Louis Calvert said:
The other thing that occurred to me after I read your post: Maligno's latest audio research suggests possible links between the fungal life and Guardian obelisks (as I understand his analysis there's very small similarities): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Discussions?p=6436974&viewfull=1#post6436974 So that might lend weight to the idea of the fungal life being some form of later version of the AI vehicle.

And your idea made me think about the Thargoid attacks on stations - I wonder if the heat-buildup in the stations (as a result of damaging the reactors I assume) was deliberate - the actual goal of the attacks.

I don't know anything about fungus, and googling showed me that the subject is extremely broad, but I wonder if the heated stations were an attempt to create an incubator-like effect to speed up growth? IF we assume that some humans might be similarly infected (there's lots of reasons to suspect some are).

And finally - as has been elsewhere noted - those spikes on the Medusa look at a lot like Cordyceps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps

http://galnet.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/medusa-aymerix-01.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nPnxdRN.png
Click to expand...

Good points.

I wonder if our Mycoid attacks made the Thargoids more vulnerable to fungal infection. This may have opened the door for a naturally or artificially intelligent fungus to take control of them.

It would explain the significant change in behavior between Elite and FFE Thargoids and the rather drastic change in appearance between ED Thargoids and those from the older games.

We will see later today if the more traditional looking Scouts, behave more Thargoid like and attack on site.
 

Thatchinho

Thatchinho
Louis Calvert said:
The other thing that occurred to me after I read your post: Maligno's latest audio research suggests possible links between the fungal life and Guardian obelisks (as I understand his analysis there's very small similarities): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Discussions?p=6436974&viewfull=1#post6436974 So that might lend weight to the idea of the fungal life being some form of later version of the AI vehicle.

And your idea made me think about the Thargoid attacks on stations - I wonder if the heat-buildup in the stations (as a result of damaging the reactors I assume) was deliberate - the actual goal of the attacks.

I don't know anything about fungus, and googling showed me that the subject is extremely broad, but I wonder if the heated stations were an attempt to create an incubator-like effect to speed up growth? IF we assume that some humans might be similarly infected (there's lots of reasons to suspect some are).

And finally - as has been elsewhere noted - those spikes on the Medusa look at a lot like Cordyceps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordyceps

http://galnet.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/medusa-aymerix-01.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nPnxdRN.png
Click to expand...

Other way round on this one - in general Fungi don't do well at high temperatures. It's even been hypothesised that one of the evolutionary drivers for warm bloodedness was resistance to various dangerous Fungi.

Assuming that the Thargoids are actually ammonia based, and thus operate at colder temperatures, that's why the Mycoid was such an effective tool against them & the natural temperature differences would have meant that while it was dangerous to the Thargoids it wouldn't have been similarly dangerous to humanity.

But actually that makes even more sense of your idea that the heat build up is the actual intent. The purpose could conceivably be to destroy any of the Mycoid which might be stored on the stations. Neutralising our most effective weapon is certainly something you'd expect them to do, and works for lots of scenarios for what's going on with the Thargoids.

Personally I'd always thought they would have developed a counter to the Mycoid, whether on their own or with human assistance (voluntary or forced). Perhaps not though. Or perhaps their counter is not completely effective and their attacks on the station are a 'prevention is better than cure' strategy.
 

superb0y03

S
"Added new alien attack craft"

I was reading through the patch notes and saw "added new alien attack craft". The fact that it did not specify thargoid interceptor makes me think that it could me something else. A new scout maybe? or some new tharg? Maybe even a guardian.
 

StonedThoughts

StonedThoughts
superb0y03 said:
I was reading through the patch notes and saw "added new alien attack craft". The fact that it did not specify thargoid interceptor makes me think that it could me something else. A new scout maybe? or some new tharg? Maybe even a guardian.
Click to expand...

I guess its the Scout allready known from the Beta
 

soddish

S
Could also be the Guardian ship teased in today's livestream. Scout has been seen in 2.4, albeit eating a lot of dirt and not flying very much.
 
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