Engineering is one of the worst elements of any game I've ever played

This is probably the biggest NON ISSUE in gaming today!

I just finished upgrading my entire fleet using the new system. It was 10 times faster and provided far better results than anything I was able to achieve in the 2.4 system after MONTHS of Engineering sessions and THOUSANDS of rolls.

If you have a problem with this new system, you are just too damned lazy to be able to deal with the user input requirements of any video game.

Sheesh! Doesn't get much more ridiculous than this whine and hyperbole fest! [rolleyes]

Go play something more your speed. Like checkers.
 
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OP is correct: for pvp, engineering is absolutely mandatory. Mod or die, it's that simple

With that said, I do think they've taken engineering to a much better place than it was in before, with one dreadful exception: grandfathering modules. The current system has introduced a wall between certain weapons that were achieved with grandfathered secondaries that simply are not viable in the current system.

For instance, if you didn't have the foresight to mod a suite of Focused PA's with thermal reduction secondaries, you're out of luck because it's not possible anymore...but you can be assured you will be running into other players that have them. I can hardly believe this made it past Fdev.

Other than that, and perhaps it being too hard to find certain materials/data, I feel optimistic about the system.

We will only find peace when grandfathered modules are abolished :/

Weapons are actually less of a concern to me than modules such as dirty drives that have unreasonable secondary increases, armoured power plants with power increase secondaries, shield boosters with huge resistance and capacity secondaries...

FD cannot ensure current mods are better than every permutation of the previous mods and their secondaries. It cannot be done. Ergo, we will not have true balance until the traces of the old system are removed.
 
The new engineering system is, finally, a vast improvement.

If the first 3.0 beta was akin to a toast sandwich, the live versions engineering is t-bone steak and all the trimmings.
 
I REALLY wish FD would just decide engineers is a monotobous unenjoyable part of the game and remove it entirely.

But... i enjoy it. I enjoyed the old system even more, although i wish we had the material traders back then.

Not everyone likes it, that's understood, but you can't unilaterally claim something should be removed just because you don't like it.
 
That's kinda your fault for hoping something impossible to be delivered though.

The game wasn't released yesterday, it has been around for 4 years or something like that already, and fdevs never even tried to add a new layer of gameplay to their "point your ship there and pull the trigger to shoot/jump/collect stuff". The srv was their last attempt, more than 2 years ago, and still today there is nothing really worthwhile to do with it besides, you guessed it, pulling the trigger at rocks, braindead sentinels, or unmovable generators. You don't even need skills to do it, there's an insane amount of auto aim to help you out.

People will love it, people will hate it, but hoping for fdevs to 180° change their view on the game, especially this far into development where basically every core gameplay mechanic is set in stone is pretty dumb.

Engineers 2.1 was built upon a placeholder gathering system for the sole purpose of giving a gimmicky sense of progression at the expense of ship balance. It kinda worked: people were talking on the forum, on reddit, kept playing and supported fdevs by buying cheap cosmetics from the store while waiting for the next update.
Engineers 3.0 is the same exact thing, it's just a little bit polished, has a better and clearer interface and if you don't like to grind for mats you can grind for other mats in order to exchange those you don't need for the mats you do need.

In short, if you find the game annoying and boring, you'll always find it annoying and boring, fdevs have no intentions of mixing things up and it showed plenty of times already.

Yeah I'm reaching the conclusion that actual persistence and meaningful interaction aren't happening here. Ever. Either the engine or the dev simply cannot pull it off.

More and more, I think RNG Grind is about all we are getting from Elite.
 
This is probably the biggest NON ISSUE in gaming today!

I just finished upgrading my entire fleet using the new system. It was 10 times faster and provided far better results than anything I was able to achieve in the 2.4 system after MONTHS of Engineering sessions and THOUSANDS of rolls.

If you have a problem with this new system, you are just too damned lazy to be able to deal with the user input requirements of any video game.

Go play something more your speed. Like checkers.

From a G1-G3 start? Imagine the process for those who dislike it intensely and haven’t put so many hours into it previously. Personally I feel the same way as you – I have a fleet of around 14 ships all A-Rated and engineered to G5. I’ve always enjoyed the varied ways of collecting materials and engineering my ships, so it has never felt like a grind to me. I’ve only re-engineered my explorer Anaconda so far and once I found the hidden Mat Traders, I reached 67ly from my previous 61ly fairly quickly. I’m chuffed, but it’s worth considering the feelings of those with different play styles who are starting the new system from a much lower rung.
 
I hate shooting rocks. I mean it simply sucks, I cannot concieve of how this so-called mechanic could possibly be fun.

I acknowledge that this is my own fault and a terrible personal shortcoming, probably the result of multiple personality defects which include an inability to appreciate why the corvette jump range should be buffed.
 
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I disagree. You can't compete in PvP without it. So I am forced to.

Are there any rpg/mmo games with pvp out there that don't have this problem? Any game of this nature with pvp and some degree of customisation/ability to improve your base stats or gear is always always going to have an associated 'grind' to be competitive. Apart from CQC (please put it into the main game..), I can't see how you can get round it, because the very nature of pvp means that some people are going to find a way to get an edge, whether that's through in game means, cheats, exploits, using op classes, whatever.

If it's making you angry then it's time to hit the off button and do something else, it's only a video game.

This should flash up on the title screen of every game in massive lettering :D
 
We will only find peace when grandfathered modules are abolished :/

Weapons are actually less of a concern to me than modules such as dirty drives that have unreasonable secondary increases, armoured power plants with power increase secondaries, shield boosters with huge resistance and capacity secondaries...

FD cannot ensure current mods are better than every permutation of the previous mods and their secondaries. It cannot be done. Ergo, we will not have true balance until the traces of the old system are removed.

I was definitely more in favor of all of our legacy modules being reset to the new system parameters. I'm a fan of the new system in broad strokes, but allowing modules to be grandfathered in that aren't even possible to roll anymore was a terrible oversight.
 
From a G1-G3 start? Imagine the process for those who dislike it intensely and haven’t put so many hours into it previously. Personally I feel the same way as you – I have a fleet of around 14 ships all A-Rated and engineered to G5. I’ve always enjoyed the varied ways of collecting materials and engineering my ships, so it has never felt like a grind to me. I’ve only re-engineered my explorer Anaconda so far and once I found the hidden Mat Traders, I reached 67ly from my previous 61ly fairly quickly. I’m chuffed, but it’s worth considering the feelings of those with different play styles who are starting the new system from a much lower rung.

I can respect different play styles to a degree. But I draw the line at pure laziness and an unwillingness to actually play the game. Those people want all the perks dropped in their laps without lifting a finger to do anything to earn them. I have no patience for that level of laziness/entitlement. Sue me! ;)

Once the Beta revealed that G5 and G4 mats and data were the gateway in which to fill out your entire inventory of each type using the new Traders, I went back into 2.4 and spent the time between the close of the Beta and the 27th, gathering all the G5 and G4 mats and data I could get my hands on. I dumped everything else to make room for the higher grade, high conversion rate stuff.

When 3.0 dropped, I had almost 300 Exquisite Focus Crystals, 310 Imperial Shielding, 250 Data Mined Wake Exceptions, 250 Modified Embedded Firmware and several other high value G5 and G4 raw and manufactured mats that filled the 2.4 inventories to capacity.

It was a cakewalk to convert a good chunk of those into ALL the other mats and data I was missing, so that when I was done I had literally everything. I then headed off to the Engineers and performed all my conversions and new upgrades. I never had to resort to farming or mining any new mats or data in order to upgrade or convert my current 10 ship fleet. That initial cache of G5 and G4 mats and data that I had pre-collected provided everything I needed.

All those currently whining and complaining had the same opportunity and info that I did. Yet they chose instead not to bother. Seems most of them spent that time on here griping about how much of a grind the new 3.0 system was going to be.

Sorry... I consider those players a bit on the slow side. Again... Sue me. :)
 
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I can respect different play styles to a degree. But I draw the line at pure laziness and an unwillingness to actually play the game. Those people want all the perks dropped in their laps without lifting a finger to do anything to earn them. I have no patience for that level of laziness. Sue me! ;)

Once the Beta revealed that G5 and G4 mats and data were the gateway in which to fill out your entire inventory of each type, I went back into 2.4 and spent the time between the close of the Beta and the 27th, gathering all the G5 and G4 mats and data I could get my hands on. I dumped everything else to make room for the higher grade, high conversion rate stuff.

When 3.0 dropped, I had almost 300 Exquisite Focus Crystals, 250 Data Mined Wake Exceptions, 326 Modified Embedded Firmware and several other high value G5 and G4 mats and data.

All those currently whining and complaining had the same opportunity and info that I did. Yet they chose to not bother, and instead continue to whine and complain about the grind.

Sorry... I consider those players a bit on the slow side. Again... Sue me. :)

I haven't played for months, so I was waaaaay behind in the resource gathering department, and I'm currently focusing on that right now. I'll probably be at it for a couple weeks before I get serious about upgrading my favorite 3-4 ships. Where did you obtain all of your MEF?
 
Another moan about engineering...

I REALLY wish FD would just decide engineers is a monotobous unenjoyable part of the game and remove it entirely. The only reason I'm engineering my ship is because other players are doing it and I don't want to be left behind incapable of competing. It's literally ruining the game for me. I'm trying to get through engineering so I can enjoy playing the game again. That can't be a good thing surely? How is that a good way to execute a game?

"The game is fairly great, let's stick something soul-crushingly boring and repetitive in it so people don't actually enjoy the experience of playing it." Why???

So you want to play with other players in open but you don't want to "compete"? Sounds like a Mobius candidate to me...

I engineer my ships as much (or not) as I want cause I don't typically play in open. I just want my ships to be faster, jump further, and have plenty of power for pesky NPC's...
 
How is that a good way to execute a game?

it isn't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

the priority right now isn't the game, but the justification of past errors and huge waste of time and resources.

i wish there was a magical way to improve engineers, but i see none without some extensive backtracking. at best it could be mitigated by making rolls free or cheap as peanuts. but i'm afraid the minds behind this monumental screw up are not ready to admit even that.

you get to vote with your wallet, and with the way you invest your time. (i.e. if you are playing along with the stupid gring, you're not helping)
 
I was not keen on randomly being destroyed in Defender when using the last ditch jump thing ! So engineering is ok and does improve the ship handling but the methods of obtaining the materials/data is the issue ? Focus not Farming, I am more up for that. Do not mind a bit of foraging for stuff though. As for the PvP, Elite has never been a homologated series ?
 
To the OP or anyone else who finds it a grind. If you are trying to get the materials to engineer a module in a set timescale (e.g. in a 2 hour window or by this weekend) then I can see why you may think it's a grind although personally in the entire time I've played I have never felt any part of the game is a grind.

However, if you just play the game doing other stuff and you're not in a hurry then you will come across the materials even when you're not looking for them.

For example, yesterday I was traveling to Nauni to do some rescue missions and along the way some USS's popped up. I chose to drop into them, even though it would slow my journey down slightly and I was able to pick up some materials I was wanting. If I was deliberately looking for these USS's then they probably wouldn't show up, lol.

Another example. Yesterday, I was driving around on the surface of a planet yesterday just to enjoy the new look of the planets. Whilst I was doing that, I shot a few rocks that I came across and again I got some materials I was wanting.

In both examples I wasn't doing any deliberate searching and yet I gathered a good amount of materials I was after. The great thing about the new update with the change to material storage limits is I can now pick up materials I'm not after and not even know what they are used for and then when the time comes to do a different kind of engineering I may find I already have that material.

It's a different way of playing the game and may not be your type of play style but it does make gathering materials more relaxing and fun. Just a suggestion. :)


Argh, ok, I'm going to regret this but I'll bite. Play my own way, and all that...

So mat storage has changed a bit, most of this will relate to the previous version with the 1000 mats hard cap, and yes, I know about the new system, but I digress...

I often don't know what I want until I discover it in some way (talk on the forums, youtube vid - whatever - I truly hate mats gathering so it's not something I'll do on purpose just to try out new engineering mods). When I do discover that new cool toy I must have, though, I get a bee in my bonnet. Now, yes, I will have randomly managed to get 3/4 of the mats needed (though I'll have to start at L1 for everything now *eyeroll* but anyways...).

Guaranteed, I will be missing the super rare mat, and it will take forever to get just a few units - that's after I figure out where to find them.

Then there's the mats I have to keep finding (Arsenic, Datamined wake exceptions etc for G5 Long distance FSD, then, on top of that, for long distance jump boosts...).

Now, if would actually be ok if there were tools, ways to find higher concentrations of said mats, but no, just sit outside a busy station and scan random ships for an hour per 3 Datamined Wake Exception. Drive around the rims of large craters for Arsenic and pollonium etc for an hour or two for each drop... It gets boring real quick.

I deal with it, because I enjoy other parts of the game, but man, for me, the gathering is just painful. It's not even about the speed or repetition, it's about the process. I'm happy to race around the Nurburgring for hours on end in race car games - doesn't get grindier than that - but it's fun, the process of trying to gain that extra hundredth of a second on the next lap, braking a tad later, getting on the throttle a touch earlier, balancing the fine line between getting it right and spinning off to a wrecked car...

This is what's lacking, for me, in ED, the process of gathering is, generally, dull, and I'm unlikely to "just find" random mats that I need playing the game the way I play.

As I've said, it's just me, and my style, but I really think people need to appreciate that not all of us play the game in a way where the mats we will need tomorrow are magically all dropped today by doing whatever we feel like.

Z...
 
YEs you are forced to do it in pvp, because it's the only way a person can use their brain to try to out maneuver an opponent with loadout trickery before the battle even starts. If we were all flying the exact same ships, it'd get pretty boring pretty quickly.
Agree. And we have that already, it's called CQC, but no one likes it because it's all equal and all skill. And players want to bring in their engineered ships into CQC to make it more interesting. So then... engineering is actually what PvP gamers want too.
 
i wish there was a magical way to improve engineers, but i see none without some extensive backtracking. at best it could be mitigated by making rolls free or cheap as peanuts.

So if they are free people will moan about the grind of having to click, so why not just apply the best possible mod to your entire ship without a single click.

Jeepers. An optional part of the game and people do nothing but whine. You don't have to use them, but if you want the most powerful things you have to put the time in.

It's no different with legendary gear in RPG, perfect tunes in racing games, map learning in FPS'. You want to get good at something or have the best of something, invest time.

If you don't want to invest the time, don't berate those who are willing to. I can't play the piano, I wont demand that anyone who can has their pianos taken away because I find practising my scales too grindy.
 
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