Engineering is one of the worst elements of any game I've ever played

[GG7]

As I've said, it's just me, and my style, but I really think people need to appreciate that not all of us play the game in a way where the mats we will need tomorrow are magically all dropped today by doing whatever we feel like.

Z...

Doing whatever you feel like is not always conducive to providing the access to something you need to achieve in the game. ED is not unique in this approach. If you are at a point in a game where a Boss Fight is required in order to progress, yet you are not motivated to actually undertake that Boss Fight, you can hardly blame the game or the developers for your sudden stalemate in game progression.

This isn't rocket science, despite all attempts to turn it into something as complex.

 

[Tanith Low]

For me, I enjoy the engineers as they currently are. The material traders mean that I can always get the mats I want and it gives me a steady sense of progression. Played a couple of evenings since Beyond dropped and I have managed to get my Chieftain, A Grade it and mod to a respectable level (G4 or G5). I didn't have a huge stockpile of mats I just hoovered up everything regardless of use and then converted.

That being said, the implementation of engineers is not good for PvP. Regardless of what people say you are required to max out your ships to have a chance. It's an arms race and the best toys will always have a significant advantage. This has the added effect whereby you can't just roll around and do upgrades as you find the materials. You want to do PvP and you can't compete until you have done the grind. It does suck.

The solution is fairly straight forward though. Let players sell modded modules to each other. People who enjoy it will happily make modules and sell them to the PvPers who don't want to do the engineers.

 

[Stealthie]

I was definitely more in favor of all of our legacy modules being reset to the new system parameters. I'm a fan of the new system in broad strokes, but allowing modules to be grandfathered in that aren't even possible to roll anymore was a terrible oversight.

This.

Nerfing people's super-mod's would certainly have been harsh but it would really have been the best course of action.

Perhaps they might have mitigated any saltiness by finding a way to compensate people for nerfed mod's by providing additional mat's or something?

1 x MEF for every 1% of each aspect of a mod' that was nerfed, for example.

 

[jasonbarron]

This.

Nerfing people's super-mod's would certainly have been harsh but it would really have been the best course of action.

Perhaps they might have mitigated any saltiness by finding a way to compensate people for nerfed mod's by providing additional mat's or something?

1 x MEF for every 1% of each aspect of a mod' that was nerfed, for example.

A concern for people's feelings sure didn't stop them from nerfing High Yield into the dirt. I rather suspect that their decision to leave the secondaries in had more to do with a fundamental lack of understanding what the problems are.

 

[Captain N]

It's no different with legendary gear in RPG, perfect tunes in racing games, map learning in FPS'. You want to get good at something or have the best of something, invest time.

If you don't want to invest the time, don't berate those who are willing to. I can't play the piano, I wont demand that anyone who can has their pianos taken away because I find practising my scales too grindy.

Actually learning a real skill like playing piano or getting good in a FPS is different from grind-based progression like what you have in RPG's. In an RPG it's not you getting good, it's your character getting good, which in reality is a number tied to your account / save file getting bigger.

 

[hackerman69]

Another moan about engineering...

I REALLY wish FD would just decide engineers is a monotobous unenjoyable part of the game and remove it entirely. The only reason I'm engineering my ship is because other players are doing it and I don't want to be left behind incapable of competing. It's literally ruining the game for me. I'm trying to get through engineering so I can enjoy playing the game again. That can't be a good thing surely? How is that a good way to execute a game?

"The game is fairly great, let's stick something soul-crushingly boring and repetitive in it so people don't actually enjoy the experience of playing it." Why???

You can go to possibly 3 planets for common stuff , davs hope for mats, and a barnacle site for the less common stuff. So that’s 5 total. To me I enjoy that more than the actual engineering. I don’t do pvp , my choice, have I engineered yes a few ships based on what I want to do in the game with it. May just buy a chieftain and engineer that, not that I want or need one at the minute. But options there regardless

 

[Han Zulu]

This.

Nerfing people's super-mod's would certainly have been harsh but it would really have been the best course of action.

Perhaps they might have mitigated any saltiness by finding a way to compensate people for nerfed mod's by providing additional mat's or something?

1 x MEF for every 1% of each aspect of a mod' that was nerfed, for example.

I would've preferred that they set it up so that you had to go through the re-engineering of each module before you could leave the starport. Basically, you could fly with your current grandfathered setup until the first time you dock. You wouldn't then leave without having the new done. There could've been say 10 free rolls on each module without mat requirement. That way, any engineered explorer out there could have finished up their expeditions and got home before they were forced to change, but at the same time, most (all?) combat players must at some point dock and restock so their modules wouldn't have been grandfathered for long, but forced rather quickly to change to the new.

 

[znôrt]

You don't have to use them

my gripe with engineers is not about me and what i want or don't want to use, it's the impact it has had in the game. (i've said it many times but here is an abstract: power creep with forced pve grind, loss of ship character, skill reduced mostly to gear and spreadsheeting).

i know i don't have to use them. i just completely dislike the direction they threw the game into, and decry what was lost with their introduction, which was good. if you like it, that's fine, but there's other opinions which are just as legitimate. are you trying to berate me by any chance? in that case you would best make sure you are talking about my actual opinions and motivations and not those in your imagination.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

Well, not really. Same could be said about any video game. If it's making you angry then it's time to hit the off button and do something else, it's only a video game.

guess why FD reworks stuff? because too many just left the game for good. This isn't a singleplayer game, it's one with servers, and servers need to be kept running and they don't run on goodwill, so money is needed and money comes from customers, so sadly you have to have a lot of them. And when you implement boring repetitive tasks to many may leave.

 

[Gun Star]

I would've preferred that they set it up so that you had to go through the re-engineering of each module before you could leave the starport. Basically, you could fly with your current grandfathered setup until the first time you dock. You wouldn't then leave without having the new done. There could've been say 10 free rolls on each module without mat requirement. That way, any engineered explorer out there could have finished up their expeditions and got home before they were forced to change, but at the same time, most (all?) combat players must at some point dock and restock so their modules wouldn't have been grandfathered for long, but forced rather quickly to change to the new.

One of the main reasons they left peoples modules alone is quite a lot of people said they would leave the game if they touched their modules. Second was some CMDR's ships are built around secondaries. I have one of the those ships. Remove those secondaries my ship would probably be dead at that station.

Yes we could probably buy new modules ship them around to where that stranded ship is and engineer it and cause a giant pain. A lot of people have spent a lot of time engineering those modules. My main point is I will use the new system with new ships I buy, but I wont touch any of my legacy ships. It would be kind of a slap in the face to me that I put in the time and effort to engineer stuff in the old system just to have it wiped cause people cried again for an even easier button.

 

[jasonbarron]

One of the main reasons they left peoples modules alone is quite a lot of people said they would leave the game if they touched their modules. Second was some CMDR's ships are built around secondaries. I have one of the those ships. Remove those secondaries my ship would probably be dead at that station.

Yes we could probably buy new modules ship them around to where that stranded ship is and engineer it and cause a giant pain. A lot of people have spent a lot of time engineering those modules. My main point is I will use the new system with new ships I buy, but I wont touch any of my legacy ships. It would be kind of a slap in the face to me that I put in the time and effort to engineer stuff in the old system just to have it wiped cause people cried again for an even easier button.

If they removed your secondaries how would your ship be "dead at the station?"

Fdev failing to do what is fair to the overall game because of people threatening to quit is pretty weak. As is players unwilling to give up their secondaries in the interest of fairness

 

[Enderby]

It’s like having a car racing game in which more time is spent tinkering with your car than racing it.

Hopefully FD will be able to think up some actual new stuff to do rather than play stats with our ships.

 

[Crank Larson]

guess why FD reworks stuff? because too many just left the game for good. This isn't a singleplayer game, it's one with servers, and servers need to be kept running and they don't run on goodwill, so money is needed and money comes from customers, so sadly you have to have a lot of them. And when you implement boring repetitive tasks to many may leave.

FD don't rework anything for people that don't play the game. Why would they? They don't make any more money just because someone starts playing a game that they've already bought. FD rework stuff to make it better, and generally ask for the opinion of those who are playing the game (though with mixed results as to listening ).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It’s like having a car racing game in which more time is spent tinkering with your car than racing it.

Hopefully FD will be able to think up some actual new stuff to do rather than play stats with our ships.

Its more: while racing your car, you pick stuff up that you can use to tinker with your car later on. Then you stop racing and have the fun of tinkering with it for a short while, then go of racing again, picking up more stuff so you can tinker later on. But some don't do the racing and only pick stuff up and tinker and then complain that they can't do the racing when it's been entirly their own choice to do that.

 

[Enderby]

When tinkering becomes main content thats crap

 

[LP Garnell]

When tinkering becomes main content thats crap

Not at all. Lots of games have tinkering as core content. Go off and play CQC if you want a turn-key combat experience.

 

[Enderby]

ED’s ok. Just think engineers cynical pseudo-content

Cqc lol

 

[wstephenson]

I played Elite in the 1980s. When I had completed all the missions, had military lasers on all corners, and reached Galaxy 4 or 5, I was disappointed to find out that's where progression stopped.

For longevity reasons, it's essential to replace the earlier games' linear progression with a set of equally valuable, mutually exclusive end states. The new system is fair, if not as exciting as the old one. Using materials as currency instead of cash mandates some change of location and activity to acquire them, as 'anti-grind'. The signalling of where to obtain materials could be improved. I think the materials traders make it too easy, and using them is an annoying extra step to travel to each kind, but having them all on each Engineer would be too easy. Why not have a few well characterized all-materials trader NPCs that travel around the bubble in megaships? But generally the only problems I have with Engineering are implementation ones.

 

[wstephenson]

For the PvP materials gathering problem, I'd have players drop a few materials from across the whole range (not the stuff we see now) when killed in PvP combat.

Yes.

The catch is, the spread of materials dropped is dictated by the relative power and level of the parties involved. Kill someone of your rank or better, get stuff of your rank up to theirs. Kill someone weaker than you, even if in self defense, and only get low tier materials. And the materials come from their ship and cargo's destruction, not their material store.

 

[LP Garnell]

If they removed your secondaries how would your ship be "dead at the station?"

Fdev failing to do what is fair to the overall game because of people threatening to quit is pretty weak. As is players unwilling to give up their secondaries in the interest of fairness

Gun might or might not chime in, but there are a number of ways you can have a ship "dead at the station"; power at the very least. If you were able to fit in a set of modules only by reducing power consumption due to certain secondary rolls, taking those away puts you over the power budget limit. Your ship won't go anywhere. At least until you deactivate enough to get you below 100%, but then it's not the ship you had before.

I don't have this particular problem, but do have issue with those who keep yapping on about how engineers killed the game. They are NOT going away. I love engineers, and now could not possibly conceive of this game without them. Some of -my- ships would be dead at the station because I carefully planned and engineered them to have capabilities they wouldn't otherwise have.