The New Smeaton (if you have friends to wing with) not quite as good but still a good exploit ??

[El_Hefe]

Nope.
I was comparing doing wing mission solo
Look at a wing mission payout. You can solo it or wing it. Solo pays X, same mission pays X to each wing member for hauling the same total divided by number in wing. why is solo effort being penalised?

How are you penalised though?

Every member of the wing will recieve the exact same payout as you would if you do it solo so how are you penalised?

If your problem is its more work in solo and easier in a wing you have no complaint,the missions are designed for wings.

 

[Adjuster666]

I can make that in 2 one-hop runs by myself. I wouldn't call that the "New Smeaton."

Tell me where with a 2 tonne load I can make 8 mil in 2 hops? Believe me I would love to know that one.

 

[Adjuster666]

How are you penalised though?

Every member of the wing will recieve the exact same payout as you would if you do it solo so how are you penalised?

If your problem is its more work in solo and easier in a wing you have no complaint,the missions are designed for wings.

Payout for the 4 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 1,000,000
Payout for a 3 man wing hauling 1000 tonne= 750,000
Payout for a 2 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 500,000
Payout for a 1 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 250,000

What part of the above makes sense?

 

[El_Hefe]

Payout for the 4 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 1,000,000
Payout for a 3 man wing hauling 1000 tonne= 750,000
Payout for a 2 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 500,000
Payout for a 1 man wing hauling 1000 tonne = 250,000

What part of the above makes sense?

The part where every individual earns exactly the same payout as any other individual. Weather in a wing or solo.

 

[Snowymonk]

Don't get a feature where hauling 1000 of X pays 50 if you take time to do it yourself. But if hauling 1000 of X between 4 people (i.e. 250 each) pays you 50 each, in other word 4 times as much.

This.

My understanding of how Wing missions would play out was that rewards would be divided between participants.

1 Commander = 100% of payout (but takes longer / more dangerous)
2 Commanders = 50% each or percentage of hauled trade
3 Commanders = 33% each or percentage of hauled trade

etc.

It was up to the Commander if they wanted to divide their reward with fellow commanders, balancing whether the risk / reward was worth it.

I didn't realise that the reward was flat, (unless mission was partial completed.)

 

[El_Hefe]

This.

My understanding of how Wing missions would play out was that rewards would be divided between participants.

1 Commander = 100% of payout (but takes longer / more dangerous)
2 Commanders = 50% each or percentage of hauled trade
3 Commanders = 33% each or percentage of hauled trade

etc.

It was up to the Commander if they wanted to divide their reward with fellow commanders, balancing whether the risk / reward was worth it.

I didn't realise that the reward was flat, (unless mission was partial completed.)

If they did that they would be penalising wings for doing wing missions.....

 

[ries]

OP really needs to work on his math.

 

[Adjuster666]

This.

My understanding of how Wing missions would play out was that rewards would be divided between participants.

1 Commander = 100% of payout (but takes longer / more dangerous)
2 Commanders = 50% each or percentage of hauled trade
3 Commanders = 33% each or percentage of hauled trade

etc.

It was up to the Commander if they wanted to divide their reward with fellow commanders, balancing whether the risk / reward was worth it.

I didn't realise that the reward was flat, (unless mission was partial completed.)

That was my issue, appears no matter how little you do (1 tonne in a 50000 tonne mission) you still get a full share of the payout, it is absolutely open to abuse.

 

[Snowymonk]

If they did that they would be penalising wings for doing wing missions.....

I don't think so because the wing would be churning through more missions per hour than a single commander but I see what you are getting at.

 

[Adjuster666]

OP really needs to work on his math.

Care to expand ?

 

[El_Hefe]

I don't think so because the wing would be churning through more missions per hour than a single commander but I see what you are getting at.

You see thats not the case though,if it took a solo commander an hour to make 6million on one wing mission a wing of 3 would have to complete 3 missions of the same value in the same time to earn the same reward for each commander in the wing. Thats 20 minutes per mission,which currently doesnt look possible to me.

Ive done a dcent amount of wing missions solo and in a wing at this stage.

 

[Gun Star]

It will come in line with a later update. Who here remembers the Passenger missions when they first came out. Most of them were really lucrative. It was to give people incentive to do the new missions. They slowly and slowly nerfed them bringing it more in line with other activities and its activity balanced a little more out. The same will happen to these.

 

[Crank Larson]

Wing are supposed to be solo compatible, ie you can do them without a wing but it's easier with a wing. This should not mean wing players get an advantage aside from doing it quicker.

They are "compatible". Solo players can take them. Doesn't mean it should be worthwhile (it shouldn't). The only advantage that wings do have is that the mission is completed more quickly - which again, is the whole point.

 

[Adjuster666]

You see thats not the case though,if it took a solo commander an hour to make 6million on one wing mission a wing of 3 would have to complete 3 missions of the same value in the same time to earn the same reward for each commander in the wing. Thats 20 minutes per mission,which currently doesnt look possible to me.

Ive done a dcent amount of wing missions solo and in a wing at this stage.

No a 3 man wing does the same mission in a third of the time, assuming same ship as solo, because each wingman gets the same full reward as the guy soloing it

 

[Crank Larson]

That was my issue, appears no matter how little you do (1 tonne in a 50000 tonne mission) you still get a full share of the payout, it is absolutely open to abuse.

Don't wing up with people that don't pull their weight? I personally wouldn't wing up with anyone I couldn't trust in the given situation. For wing missions, this means I would only wing up with friends.

Conversely, I also like the idea that I can do the bulk of the haulage and my friend in his Sidewinder just tags along hauling his two tons per trip. Because I'd enjoy helping my friend out of his Sidewinder and into something more useful (at which point, they become much more helpful in wing missions).

This system is only open to abuse if you invite it.

 

[Adjuster666]

The only advantage that wings do have is that the mission is completed more quickly - which again, is the whole point.

Ok so why do they get paid 2, 3 or 4 times( in total) the amount the solo guy gets for hauling the same stuff inside the same time window set ? Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[Crank Larson]

Ok so why do they get paid 2, 3 or 4 times( in total) the amount the solo guy gets for hauling the same stuff inside the same time window set ? Doesn't seem fair to me.

They don't. It is only in your head.

 

[Adjuster666]

I am sorry if I have been at it tonight on this topic.

It is simply that I cannot understand why, if a mission board says we pay you 200,000 to haul 1000 tonnes of crap form A-B, that 4 people in a wing hauling it between them at 250 tonnes each get 200,000 (800,000 total) the same as one person does hauling the whole 1000 tonnes (200,000 total)

If you can explain the logic and fiscal sense of this, then be my guest.

 

[Adjuster666]

They don't. It is only in your head.

Doh. Maths is clearly not one of your strong points.

1 man gets 200,000 for hauling the load of 1000 tonnes
Same mission done by 4 man wing.
Each carries 250 tonnes and each gets 200,000 QED price paid in total is 800,000. Therefore 800,000 is paid to wing, 200,000 if done solo.

That simple enough for you?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Tell me where with a 2 tonne load I can make 8 mil in 2 hops? Believe me I would love to know that one.

Sure, doesn't even need missions.

1) Buy two mining lasers
2) Go to a system with a wing of 3 friendly Painite miners, a pristine metallic ring, and a Boom economy
3) Help them find the Painite-containing rocks and use your mining laser to knock more fragments loose for them to collect.
4) Get 500t * 3 ships * 70000 credits * 5% = 5.25 million per trip. (With expert miners this probably takes about an hour)
5) Buy a mining T-6 so you can be a bit more useful on the second trip.

This is more like "no hops" than "two hops" if you get lucky, but you might need to make a jump between the ring and the selling station.

Mining has since 1.3 when limpets made it viable been a very good theoretical way of doing this sort of money transfer, and no-one has complained about that.



With missions, stacking up surface scans in the appropriate place could get you 40 million in two hops, nothing bigger than a Sidewinder required. (You would already need Elite Exploration rank and Allied status to get the 2-3 million surface scan missions required ... a task which *also* doesn't need anything bigger than a Sidewinder to achieve)