Exploits - Good for PvP , PvE & FD

[dognosh]

Just my opinions,feel free to post yours

There used to be a time,early 2015, that many of us hated exploits and complained about them. In those days Credits mattered.Even after a few exploits,credit still mattered as only the few had the billions.
Now after many exploits, Credits mean nothing as a whole. On a "per Cmdr" level,it still means a lot.

PvE : I think more are slowly venturing in to OPEN as they now have the means to rebuy many times over,and not worry about other Cmdrs. WIN
PvP : Allows more Cmdrs to try this game mode,as they have lots of disposable income now,also there are many from PvE venturing in to OPEN. WIN
FD : I really do think that this "Free Credit" part of the game has kept the numbers up.

BGS : Win ? Lose ? Sorry, I am not well versed enough in this subject to comment(will let you guys do so)
Is it wrong?(Exploits) : Yes, definitely, but it's here to stay(as in they fix one and another pops up soon enough)

FD makes up for the worthlessness of Credits by making G5 Mats/Data still something to work for.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Is it wrong?(Exploits) : Yes, definitely, but it's here to stay(as in they fix one and another pops up soon enough)

FD makes up for the worthlessness of Credits by making G5 Mats/Data still something to work for.

Hmmm, kinda.

My biggest issue with the whole thing is value. For me the game lost it's sense of awe a while back. I remember the first time I saw a player Anaconda, we went to a nav beacon so he could show me the firepower at work. It was really awesome at the time that you really thought about what to upgrade and when and how. Fuel and repairs mattered. It was all personally a lot more engaging to me as everything had more gravitas and choices had bigger consequences, user experience may vary but I find these-days I'll click "refuel all" and "repair all" without even thinking about it. A death is an inconvenience not a significant set-back. It felt more like on the edge frontier flying when credits were short in supply. Then again I did buy the game to recreate a version of Firefly I had in my head so again, depends what you want from the game.
Whilst I agree the credits in the way back were way too low I still think the current balance is wrong and exploits have ruined things. It needs to be fast enough to move up to new ships and stuff but slow enough that there's a sense of value to the whole thing.

Without exploits the early game progression is too high imho, mid game about right (Asp/Vulture level) and late game too slow. To quantify that, I can get from a new game to an Asp in 2-3 hours work skipping 14 of the cheapest 15 ships. To move from an Asp to a Python/FDL or T9 or whatever it's a good pace and encourages people to try different things like mining, exploration, combat, faction ranking etc or whatever they aren't doing. Late game where a re-buy is 20-30mil it feels slow and any death is significant so you'll be looking for ways to maximise cr/hr instead of using the ships how you want to.

That all being said I've gotten to the point now where I understand without a galaxy reset the whole thing is flawed from the ground up anyway. Personally I'd enjoy it if they fixed it and tested in a fresh-start beta. Assuming everything worked and all the loopholes were shut then do a soft-reset. Everyone can keep 1 ship and all the engineered stuff inside + get 2 re-buys for said ship. First discoveries etc are all kept as are data+mats gathered and statistics etc.
Unpopular view and there's a lot of negatives involved in that but personally I'd like that.

I would disagree with the PvE being more open to flying open. I'm not really seeing that from the people I talk to... Could be friendship bias though.
On the PvP I'm not sure, not really in with the crowd so wouldn't know about numbers.


Tl: DR - IMO Yes exploits are bad, G5 mats don't really make it all better imho as there's still major flaws in the progression balance and well there's materials mode-flipping at places like Davs hope too.

 

[Genus]

If only any of this was done on purpose.

 

[dognosh]

If only any of this was done on purpose.

My sentiments too.....

Hmmm, kinda....snip....

Well written

 

[S. Belmont]

Hey, I don't use exploits and I'm still there, where credits has not lost their meaning. I've been playing from 2015, over 6 weeks and four days ingame, and I constantly need to worry about money. I just bought my first Anaconda, got my first elite-rank with it. And both really mean something to me.
Sorry, but tbh, I think people are ruining their game with exploits...

 

[dognosh]

Hey, I don't use exploits and I'm still there, where credits has not lost their meaning. I've been playing from 2015, over 6 weeks and four days ingame, and I constantly need to worry about money. I just bought my first Anaconda, got my first elite-rank with it.
Sorry, but tbh, I think people are ruining their game with exploits...

Nice to hear that side too

Please don't assume(or speak on behalf of me and others) that our game is ruined if we exploit ! I still love playing and have tons of things to do
There is no end game, there is no "I WIN", only how we choose to play.

 

[sollisb]

On a personal level, I don't believe they are exploits. If FDev give me the ability to make credits fast, I'm going to use it. Just like they killed the KWS, they choose how we make credits. If they mess it up, that's their problem, not mine.

Has it lowered or raised the value of the game? For me no. I have multiple Cutters, Vettes, whatever I want and the ability to buy even more. I can go where ever I want, I can whatever I want. It's my game.

In relation to 'Open' not a chance, It's populated by kids who have to wing up to kill anyone. For sure, there are some great guys who can PvP all day in the true sense of the word, but in the main, it is ruined by the kiddies. The only reason to go into open for me is to use their Mission boards

For all the credit earning ways FDev give us, they give us as many bugs and grind yer bottom off time sinks.

So, if they let me do it without resorting to hacking the game, then it's perfect;y legal in my book.

The term exploit is thrown around way too easily by misinformed players. And in the main, it's done by players who feel agrieved that someone else has or done something they didn't.

 

[insanephoton]

It could be argued that FD are more than happy with this as they created their own 'exploit' style high pay out missions. IIRC the original Ram Tah missions paid something like 200 million when they first came out until they halved it (and I'm not sure if they are still available or it the pay has changed since 3,0 dropped), The Palin missions could earn you over 100 million per hour with a bit of luck.

I'm no expert on the BGS but I think some exploits are more detrimental than others. The current skimmer exploit is obviously bad news for the faction that owns the skimmers. If it were a player created faction and I was a member of it, I'd be somewhat miffed. I think I saw someone complain about the effects Smeaton had on their adopted faction, but overall I think things generally balanced out as most players were chasing credits. For every mission such as refugees or protesters there seemed to be a counter mission with aid workers or security, or alternatively taking a similar load away.

 

[dognosh]

It could be argued that FD are more than happy with this as they created their own 'exploit' style high pay out missions. IIRC the original Ram Tah missions paid something like 200 million when they first came out until they halved it (and I'm not sure if they are still available or it the pay has changed since 3,0 dropped), The Palin missions could earn you over 100 million per hour with a bit of luck.

I'm no expert on the BGS but I think some exploits are more detrimental than others. The current skimmer exploit is obviously bad news for the faction that owns the skimmers. If it were a player created faction and I was a member of it, I'd be somewhat miffed. I think I saw someone complain about the effects Smeaton had on their adopted faction, but overall I think things generally balanced out as most players were chasing credits. For every mission such as refugees or protesters there seemed to be a counter mission with aid workers or security, or alternatively taking a similar load away.

201M payout Ram Tah original Guardians mission, bad bad example
I wrote a guide on it,and did it many times, it never took less than 4 hours,and it was fun
(so definitely not an exploit,but was nerfed by FD anyway as it was deemed too high paying and repeatable,and promptly killed it off)

 

[Southern]

I don't think I have done anything that could be labeled as an exploit. But I hesitate to say this as there are a lot of opinionated people on they way I should play my game. I'm very new relative to the age of the game, especially being on PS4 and only starting in Oct. of last year

What I can't wrap my head around is why one assumes the game is ruined if it is played differently. Maybe, just maybe the different play styles help with player base retention. Maybe fdev could see a decay, maybe even an exodus of players because of income and decided to add these Easter eggs. Search for themif you want. Leave them be if you don't.

Sometimes, I dip my French fries in mayonnaise. I hope this doesn't ruin anyone's fried potato etiquette.Tossing my first rep to dognosh.

 

[jasonbirder]

PvE : I think more are slowly venturing in to OPEN as they now have the means to rebuy many times over,and not worry about other Cmdrs. WIN

Why is this a win? Yes, more people PLAYING the Game is a Win...but what mode they chose isn't important?

PvP : Allows more Cmdrs to try this game mode,as they have lots of disposable income now,also there are many from PvE venturing in to OPEN.

No "Real Pilot" in any real or fictional universe would enter a combat they felt there was a reasonable chance of losing...would they? So something which allows Cmdrs to "Pad Out" their credit balance to the point being blown up multiple times is a painless experience makes the Eliteangerous Universe LESS immersive and MORE "Gamey" doesn't it?

I really do think that this "Free Credit" part of the game has kept the numbers up.

You genuinely think someone making a decision to Purchase the Game...works out average Cr/Hr...compares that against ship costs/rebuy costs and then makes a decision to buy it or not based on how long it'll take them to get a Corvette/'Conda/Cutter ???

 

[andrewg_oz]

IMO, the only exploits are things like mode switching and suicide being beneficial to earning credits. Suicide should never be a desirable thing, only an option you would pick when faced with no other choice.

In the past (I'm not too sure currently), it was common place to take a bunch of tourist scan missions, scan the beacon, then suicide back to the station, because suicide wouldn't invalidate the scans (the mission succeeded immediately without needing to return to the station without dieing). IMO, that was an exploit.

I also consider flying 5000Ly out, then suiciding back to the bubble to be an exploit as far as unlocking Prof Palin is concerned - any travelling done should only count if you successfully make the return trip. However, now that there are several stations more than 5000Ly out (not even considering Colonia) renders this moot - players could just travel to one of those (eg New Beginning), then suicide and pick the Sidewinder option back to the bubble.

IMO, none of the current missions that allow a player to earn lots of credits are an exploit. All they are is unbalanced. What is really needed is balance in respect to earning credits. Any time there is a method of earning credits that is way more than all the other ways, then most players will focus on just that method and ignore all others. That often seems to lead to complaints about "shallow gameplay" or "nothing to do", when all it really is is a lack of balance rendering a large number of activities less desirable to do.

As far as mode switching is concerned, I don't know why Frontier don't just cache mission server responses locally. It would reduce server load, and result in mode switching just using the same cached results (until they needed updating/refreshing).

 

[Decoy_Raven]

It's funny because this is exactly the reason I stay out of Open. Why would I pool my hard earned cash against someone who glitched their way to basically unlimited amounts of credits? 2-3 deaths and it's game over for me, for them it's just a drop in the ocean.

 

[sollisb]

They allow mode switching because they originally said we'd have offline mode, but as is usual with FDev their ideas were bigger than their abilities.

 

[andrewg_oz]

They allow mode switching because they originally said we'd have offline mode, but as is usual with FDev their ideas were bigger than their abilities.

No, Elite Dangerous was originally an always online game. During the Kickstarter people asked about an offline mode and Frontier said they would think about it. They thought about it and decided it wasn't possible.

Unfortunately, those players who wanted offline mode interpreted Frontiers "think about it" as "we will do it" and got salty when it didn't happen. They're still salty and try to rewrite history at every opportunity.

 

[Cupsuki]

Back when I was a newbie I obviously wanted everything. And I still do well over a year and a half later. I do agree with most of your points op, the way I handled it was that I tried to master the game as much as I could before I did anything dirty (Looking at you Robigo) and in my opinion it worked great for me at least. Now I know many people out there who would lose interest after getting everything so fast but in the end that's an inevitability, it's simply happening faster. Now I understand people that are against exploits and they have totally valid points, but I also understand those who use them just to have quick fun. For me heading into op, just wanting to get into trouble with some wanted players, or trying new builds in PvP, not even thinking about logging (which I only did once and I regret it to this day), it simply made me feel so free to do whatever I wanted. The way I see it and this might be a bit cynical, but you have to earn your rights to use exploits, master the game, learn from it, then go play with the cool kids. That's the way I did it, and I had my best days in Elite back then, now obviously those times have been long one and I am a couple Thargoid fights gone wrong from total bankruptcy but hey at least I have the memories

In short, I agree with op, but I understand why people would think otherwise and I totally respect that.

 

[sollisb]

No, Elite Dangerous was originally an always online game. During the Kickstarter people asked about an offline mode and Frontier said they would think about it. They thought about it and decided it wasn't possible.

Unfortunately, those players who wanted offline mode interpreted Frontiers "think about it" as "we will do it" and got salty when it didn't happen. They're still salty and try to rewrite history at every opportunity.

Fair enough, I'll accept that.

However, are we also to accept the shoddy implementations and coding? Let's be honest, the mission system has been bugged from day 1 and still is!! Everything they've deployed has been buggy. Maybe that's where the salt comes from?

 

[Susanna]

I have no issue with credit exploits being in the game. Without these the early game is WAY to grindy for words. I did this the hard way for my first account and it took me at least 4 months to get an AspX and about 9 months to get a conda and another couple of months to A rate it.

For my second account I went straight to running Palin missions, was Elite Trade inside 4 days and had a couple of Bn in the bank inside a fortnight. Admittedly, I used my main account to help kick start my alt account for the first day or two to get me into an AspX. The pain of the first year was entirely circumnavigated thankfully! I still had all of the engineers to redo, which took a couple of weeks but I had the alt account up to speed in around 6 weeks. I can now use this for exploration etc as needed

Credit grind doesn't make for good game play in a sandbox imho. I want to get to the point that I'm independent and not struggling for credits or anything else and I'm free to do what I want to, whatever that might be. Explore Guardian and Thargoid sites, go base and geyser jumping, Buckyball Racing, or any of the other activities without having to grind!

Grinding Credits is NOT good game play. It only adds tedium!

 

[Barking_Mad]

I have no issue with credit exploits being in the game. Without these the early game is WAY to grindy for words. I did this the hard way for my first account and it took me at least 4 months to get an AspX and about 9 months to get a conda and another couple of months to A rate it.

For my second account I went straight to running Palin missions, was Elite Trade inside 4 days and had a couple of Bn in the bank inside a fortnight. Admittedly, I used my main account to help kick start my alt account for the first day or two to get me into an AspX. The pain of the first year was entirely circumnavigated thankfully! I still had all of the engineers to redo, which took a couple of weeks but I had the alt account up to speed in around 6 weeks. I can now use this for exploration etc as needed

Credit grind doesn't make for good game play in a sandbox imho. I want to get to the point that I'm independent and not struggling for credits or anything else and I'm free to do what I want to, whatever that might be. Explore Guardian and Thargoid sites, go base and geyser jumping, Buckyball Racing, or any of the other activities without having to grind!

Grinding Credits is NOT good game play. It only adds tedium!

You chose to grind. Or you don't enjoy the game.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm doing my first ever get rich quick scheme at the moment, the skimmer killer missions (like many I'm getting revenge for skimmer rain). Never ground out credits before now, because mindless repetition isn't my cup of tea, but the extreme rewards for these skimmer missions, combined with the challenge of completing them (at defended bases) have made these an interesting little side-game for me for the time being. I have a run I'm not going to share, but basically, it involves three bases in reasonable proximity to my home base that are owned by independents (so I don't hurt my superpower rep), that do not have any flying escort (this is all that matters, all skimmer missions to bases with no flying escort are easy). The method is quite simple, drop in and take out the one or two power plants as quick as possible, then kill skimmers at your leisure. I do this in my chieftain using only one medium dumbfire missile rack and can usually complete all 20 missions without a refill.

The new skimmer spawn mechanics mean you won't run out of skimmers to kill, the only thing you have to deal with is occasional base (ground) defense resets, in which case you just rush over the the power supply and blast it again. I made 150m in an evening last night, doubling my cash and completely covering the cost of my Chieftain.

Note that I don't use a super exploity one with no defenses (as per Yamiks vid, as that would be tedious) largely because it's hard to stack 20 missions to the same place in any reasonable amount of time, since board swapping seems a lot less effective than it once was, but also cos that would get boring quick. Therefore, if you find three bases that are frequently requested by mission givers where you are, that you can figure out and neutralise quickly (basically, locate the one or two power stations, as they only take one missile each), you can then easily stack 20 missions and just do three stops instead of just one.

I think this is good gameplay, and due to the autonomous nature of these bases, printing infinite (let's assume they have a lot of resources) skimmers seeming perfectly reasonable to me, it does not harm my immersion that I can keep going back and back again.

I also have a newfound respect for the new CnP, as under these cases, it is very convenient, as assaulting bases and skimmers does not gain you notoriety, so you can simply stop at a Factors on the way home and set off on the next run clean as a whistle. CnP is still overcomplicated, but it IS more convenient under certain circumstances than the old.