Modes Will 3.0 Increase, decrease or have no effect on Open population?

[Goose4291]

Did you read / understand my last comment there?
Do I need to explain the point?

Not all "evils" in the game can be blamed on the mode system.
It's the attitudes of some people that is the biggest killer for open mode - because in my PG, I don't have to put up with them.

Like in other MMOs where I keep "General Chat" turned of or minimised, I don't have to see or put up with people like that.

Did you read mine?

All I was saying is that posts like the one you screengrabbed are pure bait in the most obvious form possible, designed to generate angry responses.

It had nothing to do with modes etc.

Stop reacting like I'm some sort of evil infidel who is your enemy because I dont agree exactly with you 100% of the time.

And boom.

People Openly bragging about board flipping and skimmer mission stacking for 100 million or more an hour (some saying up to 350 million) and Frontier have locked out skimmer missions.
People going nuts on Reddit and in EDC Facebook because they cannot accept skimmer missions (but other missions from that station are working fine).

Now for a credit rollback and I'll spend all month laughing. Because that was clearly broken so using it was clearly cheating.
Come on Frontier, give me something to laugh about for the next month

To be honest I'm surprised at the swiftness of their response, in a good way.

 

[Jockey79]

Did you read mine?

All I was saying is that posts like the one you screengrabbed are pure bait in the most obvious form possible, designed to generate angry responses.

It had nothing to do with modes etc.

Stop reacting like I'm some sort of evil infidel who is your enemy because I dont agree exactly with you 100% of the time.

Even after I typed my response I felt it was going to be taken the wrong way.

It has nothing to do with seeing you as an "evil infidel" or an "enemy".
You either missed the point or deliberately ignored it. As I consider you to be one of the more intelligent open only advocates, I felt it must be the latter.

And this whole situation does tie in with the mode system.
As Darkfyre99 plainly stated "As such, cheaters have the potential to impact my game, and nowhere do they have a greater potential impact than in Open, where direct interaction is possible."
So why on earth would a decent, honest person want to play in open mode when so many people are currently publicly advertising they have spent all weekend cheating/exploiting?

So I'll quote myself so you can see my final comment again;

Not sure how true / honest this post is, but either way it rattles enough cages to make folks think twice about even bothering with open mode if these are the folks you'll find there.

 

[Darkfyre99]

So why on earth would a decent, honest person want to play in open mode when so many people are currently publicly advertising they have spent all weekend cheating/exploiting?

I can only speak for myself, but IMO there is nothing more satisfying than the knowledge that despite them cheating and using exploits, they still haven’t managed to kill me, and rarely manage to even interdict me, because at the end of the day, there is no substitute for actual skill at a game. Take away their exploits, and they have nothing.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

In that post is the kernel of insight you are seeking. "Having PVP enabled in a game where its optional and you can take objectives without the need for PVP. Pretty much leaves PVP open for 2 things. Griefing and flagged duels." You have reached the conclusion FD have been saying all along. By including the Modes right from the start, and later creating PP that allows for universal access. Turning to griefing is a immature response to the obvious conditions. It is not something you plan for, except how to minimize it. Flagged duels are nice.

You have it backwards. You have inverted the obvious, in an attempt to support your bias. Each and every feature FD includes allows for universal access, except some of the multiplayer stuffs, Wings and Multi-crew, but that is obviously there for those who want it, they can be used in PG, and they do not restrict anyone's access to stuff in game. They even made Wing Missions doable in Solo. What does that tell you?

The fact remains that FD have intended for people to be able to choose their environment, and experience. They have offered almost no concessions to PvP, even talk of multiplying PP influence has gone the path of the Dodo. Only people looking for what open offers, will play in open. That is a baseline fact of gaming in E|D. Once everyone just stops worrying about what the 'other guy' is doing, and focuses on what they are doing, the frustration you feel will slip away. If you let it.

No man, im sorry but this is a load of crap.

you PVP in any game no matter what there is for it. Its objectives.

In elite what is it for? Griefing. Thats it.

Get with the program dude.

If you guys want it to stay this way. Then Griefing is what you guys are going to get. Because there is no other option.

Keep the modes the same = griefing when player interactions happen.

Change the modes and give meaning to ship destruction and its no longer griefing.

Up to you guys, want to keep fighting for griefing by keeping the modes the same. Go for it.

Because im not the one crying on the forums about "GSP's" and OMG my shieldess cutter got blown up.

I dont care, im going to lay waste to everyone I see. And there is nothing anyone can do about it. Because they designed the game around griefing. And if thats the way you guys want it. Keep fighting against the changes. So be it.

Like seriously how hard is this to understand? a 5 year old can understand this.

And for some reason you guys cant? Oh gee I wonder why? Its not because of Denial. I'll tell you that, its because you'll lose the advantage the modes give you.

And I will make damn sure that comes to an end. Watch me.

 

[Mohrgan]

No man, im sorry but this is a load of crap.

you PVP in any game no matter what there is for it. Its objectives.

In elite what is it for? Griefing. Thats it.

Get with the program dude.

If you guys want it to stay this way. Then Griefing is what you guys are going to get. Because there is no other option.

Keep the modes the same = griefing when player interactions happen.

Change the modes and give meaning to ship destruction and its no longer griefing.

Up to you guys, want to keep fighting for griefing by keeping the modes the same. Go for it.

Because im not the one crying on the forums about "GSP's" and OMG my shieldess cutter got blown up.

I dont care, im going to lay waste to everyone I see. And there is nothing anyone can do about it. Because they designed the game around griefing. And if thats the way you guys want it. Keep fighting against the changes. So be it.

Like seriously how hard is this to understand? a 5 year old can understand this.

And for some reason you guys cant? Oh gee I wonder why? Its not because of Denial. I'll tell you that, its because you'll lose the advantage the modes give you.

And I will make damn sure that comes to an end. Watch me.

Has stamping your feet, and holding your breath ever worked for you?

What I understand is how FD have developed E|D. It is obvious that FD have created a system to attract as many types of players as possible. What we gamers have to do is accept that our preferences don't trump the design. Each and every action in game is filtered through the BGS. Each and every player has equal access to the BGS. Right from the game's inception. Regardless of what other games do, PvP in E|D is a preference, not a requirement.

Any advantage 'we' might have is understanding how the design of the game works. If you want Galactic Dominance, learn to BGS. If you want to shoot peeps up, by all means, shoot peeps up. But, only expect to shoot up the peeps that want to shoot back. Or, you'll be forced to shake your fists at the clouds, in vain.

P.S. I can avoid your threatened Griefing with a simple 'point and click'. Sorry, you'll only be able to grief those that are willing to be griefed.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Has stamping your feet, and holding your breath ever worked for you?

What I understand is how FD have developed E|D. It is obvious that FD have created a system to attract as many types of players as possible. What we gamers have to do is accept that our preferences don't trump the design. Each and every action in game is filtered through the BGS. Each and every player has equal access to the BGS. Right from the game's inception. Regardless of what other games do, PvP in E|D is a preference, not a requirement.

Any advantage 'we' might have is understanding how the design of the game works. If you want Galactic Dominance, learn to BGS. If you want to shoot peeps up, by all means, shoot peeps up. But, only expect to shoot up the peeps that want to shoot back. Or, you'll be forced to shake your fists at the clouds, in vain.

No but showing evidence with video, Screenshots and math does. And remember you guys arent the ones I need to prove it to. So you can try to discredit anything I say it wont matter.

Enjoy that new ATR and the background sim.

 

[Mohrgan]

No but showing evidence with video, Screenshots and math does. And remember you guys arent the ones I need to prove it to. So you can try to discredit anything I say it wont matter.

Enjoy that new ATR and the background sim.

And, we've seen how successful your evidence has been so far. Even the new C&P stuffs has been created to work in all three modes. Universal access FTW.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And, we've seen how successful your evidence has been so far. Even the new C&P stuffs has been created to work in all three modes. Universal access FTW.

Hows that workin out for ya?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/411015-Would-you-prefer-C-amp-P-back-how-it-was

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...d-mission-followers-PvP-relatively-unaffected

Yep. Again its main purpose is to stop cop farming within the BGS where a solo ship that has 12-14 hours a day to farm ships against someone else in the same instance.

Thats why ATR have station guns.

If they really wanted to stop PVPers, ATR wouldnt show up 2-5 minutes or after a certain number of ship kills.

But people that play in open and have a real understanding of this game. Understands this.

But hey, you guys keep fighting against it. Dont change the modes, they're fine just the way they are. And im going to continue to grief because there is nothing else in this game that allows player interaction to mean something. And when it does, people just swap modes because they know they would be stopped.

Stop kidding yourself dude. Use your brains for 2 minutes and you'll see where the problems lie here.

If you keep it the same, youre hurting the game.

Not me though, frontier even says on live streams, they dont want people to stop shooting each other. But whats the purpose of shooting each other? Hm? Is for an objective? Nope!

PVP should be for simple attack and defend. But instead here we are. You fighting against it. And others in those links above wanting it go back because now they have opposition in private and solo for their actions. JUST LIKE THEY WOULD IN OPEN.

Dont you guys get tired of me being right? Good lord.

 

[Mohrgan]

Hows that workin out for ya?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/411015-Would-you-prefer-C-amp-P-back-how-it-was

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...d-mission-followers-PvP-relatively-unaffected

Yep. Again its main purpose is to stop cop farming within the BGS where a solo ship that has 12-14 hours a day to farm ships against someone else in the same instance.

Thats why ATR have station guns.

If they really wanted to stop PVPers, ATR wouldnt show up 2-5 minutes or after a certain number of ship kills.

But people that play in open and have a real understanding of this game. Understands this.

But hey, you guys keep fighting against it. Dont change the modes, they're fine just the way they are. And im going to continue to grief because there is nothing else in this game that allows player interaction to mean something. And when it does, people just swap modes because they know they would be stopped.

Stop kidding yourself dude. Use your brains for 2 minutes and you'll see where the problems lie here.

If you keep it the same, youre hurting the game.

Not me though, frontier even says on live streams, they dont want people to stop shooting each other. But whats the purpose of shooting each other? Hm? Is for an objective? Nope!

PVP should be for simple attack and defend. But instead here we are. You fighting against it. And others in those links above wanting it go back because now they have opposition in private and solo for their actions. JUST LIKE THEY WOULD IN OPEN.

Dont you guys get tired of me being right? Good lord.

Skewed views can't be changed. Let's see just what the future holds.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Skewed views can't be changed. Let's see just what the future holds.

Agreed. However proof from my side lies in actions from Fdev and the community.

Just so we are clear here, my views are not the ones that are skewed.

https://imgur.com/eUJTtN6 I guess the boys from mobius who take part in the BGS have skewed views too right?

Anyone that goes against what you want has skewed views? Oh no!

 

[Jockey79]

Just so we are clear here, my views are not the ones that are skewed.

You bought a game with optional PVP - and stomp your feet because it's optional PvP.

It's most definitely you who are wrong.

 

[Mohrgan]

You bought a game with optional PVP - and stomp your feet because it's optional PvP.

It's most definitely you who are wrong.

I didn't even have to write a word.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I didn't even have to write a word.

DBOBE said as much here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEtHu3AXw2Q;t=44m10s

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You bought a game with optional PVP - and stomp your feet because it's optional PvP.

It's most definitely you who are wrong.

No, I was advertised Powerplay. With the assumption Fdev knew how to balance their game. No where on steam did it list that PVP was optional and you could take objectives in any mode.

NO WHERE was that stated.

Furthermore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0545WHDzT7w&feature=youtu.be&t=2087

Sandro the lead game designer says that its what Powerplay was designed for. And they have to fudge the crime response when it comes to powerplay because" Who wants to fight the police when you are looking for consensual PVP, thats what powerplay was meant to be for."

SO WHOS WRONG NOW?

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

DBOBE said as much here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEtHu3AXw2Q;t=44m10s

oh you want to get in on this too?

Watch the video.

They gave an outlet for PVPers. And it didnt work because of the modes. Ive seen your video numerous times. And they created powerplay for that outlet. And did it work? HAS IT WORKED? Nope.

Its used for module hopping and hauling media in solo and private. Or killing ships in solo and private.

 

[Jockey79]

No, I was advertised Powerplay. With the assumption Fdev knew how to balance their game. No where on steam did it list that PVP was optional and you could take objectives in any mode.

NO WHERE was that stated.

Furthermore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0545WHDzT7w&feature=youtu.be&t=2087

Sandro the lead game designer says that is what Powerplay was designed for. And they have to fudge the crime response when it comes to powerplay because" Who wants to fight the police when you are looking for consensual PVP, thats what powerplay was meant to be for."

SO WHOS WRONG NOW?

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

You actually provide the quote in your post that proves (yes, you actually provided some real proof!!!) - that PP was not FORCED PvP, which is what you've claimed it was and keep asking for.

You even typed out the words "consensual PVP".

You literally just posted the counter to your own posts for the past 6 months !!!

LMAO

[Edit. as for the other bit - you're a liar. the game info (including the modes) was around a lot longer than the PP ads. so you knew it was an optional pvp game before you bought it, as this was known in 2012]

 

[Mohrgan]

No, I was advertised Powerplay. With the assumption Fdev knew how to balance their game. No where on steam did it list that PVP was optional and you could take objectives in any mode.

NO WHERE was that stated.

Furthermore, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0545WHDzT7w&feature=youtu.be&t=2087

Sandro the lead game designer says that is what Powerplay was designed for. And they have to fudge the crime response when it comes to powerplay because" Who wants to fight the police when you are looking for consensual PVP, thats what powerplay was meant to be for."

SO WHOS WRONG NOW?

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH BOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII



oh you want to get in on this too?

Watch the video.

They gave an outlet for PVPers. And it didnt work because of the modes. Ive seen your video numerous times. And they created powerplay for that outlet. And did it work? HAS IT WORKED? Nope.

In technical terms that's called: 'Grasping at straws'. Sandro was talking about making the PvP aspects of PP more straight forward and intuitive, not converting that aspect, nor the whole game to a PvP based game. Anytime a Dev says anything good about PvP, and there is plenty of good to say about it, you turn it into some kind of indication that PvP will take over. That's hardly likely with the game design and the player base.

 

[Jockey79]

No I didnt. I just proved what PVP was meant to be for.

Yes, consensual PvP.

The exact opposite of what you've been demanding.

And how is PP consensual, because I can choose to be possibly shot at open (if I want to) or change modes and do it without PvP..... you know, the bit you don't like.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Come at me, Bro.

That's the correct response right? I seen it on the interweb.

I mean attacking other players from solo and private needs to come to an end. Thats PVP and in my 30 years of gaming. This is the only place where I have seen someone call it. "indirect" PVP. Yo its all PVP baby. You do it all. Or you do none.

And if anything has shown over the past 4-5 in this game through "griefing" because there is not outlet for PVP. And the modes with 5 years of Hotel California. And now they are giving us player factions.

Hey if you guys want griefing in your game, and you guys want this community to stay toxic. Then like I said. Keep it the way it is. It encourages griefing.

And thats just what I am going to go do. Because thats the way they made the game right? You're happy with it? Im happy with it.

Lets go do the only thing you can do with PVP in this game and thats farm salt. Because any time someone goes opposed. They will swap modes EVERYTIME, while still attacking their opponent.

And that my friend WILL change. Or the game will stall out. And people will move on. And then when this group of people leave. The next group of people will show up and fight for the same thing.

Want proof of that? Go look at hotel california threads and cross reference them with people that have been playing this game.

They come and go and new people arise and fight the same fight. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

And guess what, when that happens Devs take notice. And sooner or later as with any game changes to the rules are made to help that along.

Changes were made to League of legends, changes were made to WoW with how LFR and Dungeon Finder works(something they said would never exist in the beginning).

Dont think for one second, Elite is special and wont change.

Yes, consensual PvP.

The exact opposite of what you've been demanding.

And how is PP consensual, because I can choose to be possibly shot at open (if I want to) or change modes and do it without PvP..... you know, the bit you don't like.

Exactly, because thats not what it was meant to be for with the modes swapping. You die, you say no man, I just lost X million in credits for stacking media. Then you swap modes and go unopposed.

That goes against everything Sandro said in that video.

Wake up buddy.

 

[Mohrgan]

I mean attacking other players from solo and private needs to come to an end. Thats PVP and in my 30 years of gaming. This is the only place where I have seen someone call it. "indirect" PVP. Yo its all PVP baby. You do it all. Or you do none.

And if anything has shown over the past 4-5 in this game through "griefing" because there is not outlet for PVP. And the modes with 5 years of Hotel California. And now they are giving us player factions.

Hey if you guys want griefing in your game, and you guys want this community to stay toxic. Then like I said. Keep it the way it is. It encourages griefing.

And thats just what I am going to go do. Because thats the way they made the game right? You're happy with it? Im happy with it.

Lets go do the only thing you can do with PVP in this game and thats farm salt. Because any time someone goes opposed. They will swap modes EVERYTIME, while still attacking their opponent.

And that my friend WILL change. Or the game will stall out. And people will move on. And then when this group of people leave. The next group of people will show up and fight for the same thing.

Want proof of that? Go look at hotel california threads and cross reference them with people that have been playing this game.

They come and go and new people arise and fight the same fight. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

And guess what, when that happens Devs take notice. And sooner or later as with any game changes to the rules are made to help that along.

Changes were made to League of legends, changes were made to WoW with how LFR and Dungeon Finder works(something they said would never exist in the beginning).

Dont think for one second, Elite is special and wont change.

That's not how the game works. You might have spent some time looking into the mechanics of the game before you got involved. That's what I did. I saw the option to play in any of three modes, and that part of my interests were served. I avoid the toxic greifing by using the tools FD have given me, i.e. the three modes. Farm all the salt you need. You just won;t get it from me or anyone else who doesn't want to offer it up. You can only grief those willing to be griefed. I opt out.

E|D was designed as a niche game. It will survive as a niche game. The modes allow for many different play styles offering this excellent niche to any and all. The Solo/open/PG threads have been around because open only guys want the game to change. Has it? Nope. What does that say about FD's intentions? New people come to argue because they think they have something new to say, or that they just noticed something. Well they don't have anything new to say, and they aren't the first to notice things, and FD keeps the modes, and watches them go, if they go.

E|D changes all of the time. 3.0 just released and included a bunch of 'change'. Modes gone? Nope. Are the Dev's discussing removing the Modes? Nope. Have they ever hinted at removing the Modes? Nope. I think the message is clear. Open is for those that enjoy what open has to offer. Nothing more.

 

[Mohrgan]

Yes, consensual PvP.

The exact opposite of what you've been demanding.

And how is PP consensual, because I can choose to be possibly shot at open (if I want to) or change modes and do it without PvP..... you know, the bit you don't like.

There seems to be a shortage of Rep around here. It's time for the Forum to go shopping and stock up.