The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

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Well ED and SC are going to be compared and even at some point on the conferences people and journalists are going to make comparisons. Even if both games have diferent visions. Is like BF and COD. A comparison was always made. So ED and SC are going to go at it for as long as they exist (unless one of those stops been a space game)

Well, unfortunately this is so. Both games will feature the same gameplay features. The developers behind both games are well-known. Their previous games are also well-known. The development have started at about the same time.

I hope that both will eventually succeed as both are promising. The time will show.
 

psyron

Banned
Well, unfortunately this is so. Both games will feature the same gameplay features. The developers behind both games are well-known. Their previous games are also well-known. The development have started at about the same time.

I hope that both will eventually succeed as both are promising. The time will show.

I like this, yes, the time will show. ;)
 
I can see the millions of dollars this will get this month already.

constellation_poster_x0rly.jpg

Looking forward to their demo. Can't believe that I am missing out on the event though. Flying to Gamescom a day after on saturday. Maybe I'll be there in next years Gamescom event by then AC will be done, the FPS will be released and we might even get a taste of the first missions of the Singleplayer.
 
I can see the millions of dollars this will get this month already.

constellation_poster_x0rly.jpg

So which one of these do I have?
I'm an early backer, golden ticket, bla bla...
In 2012 when I backed, there was no talking about any variations of any ships, all I know is that I pledged for "Constellation" star ship and that's it.
Now they come up with this.
Does it mean that we, early backers, will have "original" constellation and these are just improved variations of the original ?
I feel like being screwed over.
 
So which one of these do I have?
I'm an early backer, golden ticket, bla bla...
In 2012 when I backed, there was no talking about any variations of any ships, all I know is that I pledged for "Constellation" star ship and that's it.
Now they come up with this.
Does it mean that we, early backers, will have "original" constellation?
I feel like being screwed over.

You have the base constellation. Nobody is getting screwed over? Variations are specific to a certain role while the base ship is the most balanced overall ship. Variations are an example of the ship customization they plan to have in the game.

They will use all the assets that are created for all ship variations as modules for ship customization. And also you can upgrade your base ship to variants if you want. But to be honest customizing it yourself in game sounds way better.

These are stock variations once they let players go wild the sickest ship customization's will happen.

--

Constallation : Base Ship

Variants

Taurus : Hauler

Andromeda : Fighter

Aquila : Exploration

Phoenix : Luxury
 

psyron

Banned
I can see the millions of dollars this will get this month already.

constellation_poster_x0rly.jpg
...

And still some people wonder why many continuously ask the "money" question:

Generallly i ask myself why people who obviously prefer SC over ED have to comment on this on an ED forum.
Two possible reasons:
a) They want to encourage ED to become better
b) They want to recruite new backers for CIG's money hungry black hole ...

I have that feeling it's more about "b" and i do not see why i should support this attitude!

Thanks for giving us a clear answer on that one - once and for all!
 
I thought we talked the whole why they still need to make money topic thoroughly?

I have my own reasons why I don't like Elite. Just as I know some people don't think AC right now or what SC will be in the future is their style. I know that Elite's style and feel doesn't go well with me.

Not everyone will like Elite not everyone will like Star Citizen. That has nothing to do with what you are trying to say again. It's a preference thing. I get a better feeling out of my ship in Star Citizen some people have that in Elite who can blame me or them? No one.

That's why the more space games the better as CR and DB said. They will fill in the preference gaps and will make for a more vivid genre. Pretty sure some people totally go for Limit Theories style while others love Enemy Starfighter and some really are looking forward to No Man's Sky. You can also like all too.

I tried Elite and had big expectations because people here and around the net said it was amazing and all. On my end it was a nice but not what I wanted. That has nothing to do with what you are saying.
 
You're right about the preferences thing. Not everyone will like ED, not everyone will like SC. What turns *me* off is the fact that everyone's quick to find excuses for the current state of SC, while giving ED a hard time.

"Oh it's just late because it's so amazing"
"AC was rushed because we the fans were so impatient"
"SC is not late, it's just so complex and vast that it takes a long time"
etc.

Over two months after the first release of AC and we're still getting more promises, more ship sales, more stuff you can spend your money on and there's very little in terms of tangible, real game updates.

And no, promises, sketches and renders don't count.
 
I thought we talked the whole why they still need to make money topic thoroughly?
You certainly talked it through. While I understand that they have operating costs, I still feel very uneasy about how there doesn't seem to be a limit to them. I'd feel much happier if CR came out and said "right guys, we need $75m to make this game, and to achieve that we need your help". But I think the reason they're not doing that is because they don't know how much it will cost, because they're unable to stop the scope creep. We see that all the time in CR's communications when he answers a question of the form "will we see xyz in the game?" with the response "that's a really good idea, maybe we'll include it". He needs to just draw a line and make the game, otherwise it'll iterate and iterate and never release.

I tried Elite and had big expectations because people here and around the net said it was amazing and all. On my end it was a nice but not what I wanted. That has nothing to do with what you are saying.
I fear that you're in for a big letdown when SC finally releases. It has been hyped up so much that said hype is now self-sustaining. It's gone nuclear. There's so much expectation that it has to be the best game ever. And unfortunately I think you're something of a victim of that expectation in that you've set your mind so firmly on SC being what you want from a space game that you're unable to enjoy others simply because they're not SC. As someone who wants ED to succeed, I find it terribly frustrating because it's eating into ED's potential market. There should be room for both (and I plan on playing both) but there's such a negative mindset associated with SC that many people can't.

[And it does work the other way around too; there are rabid fanboys here who can't enjoy SC because they worry that they might actually enjoy another game in the same genre more than their beloved one. But I see that attitude to be more prevalent on the SC forums than on these.]
 

psyron

Banned
I thought we talked the whole why they still need to make money topic thoroughly?
....

Yes, and we came to different conclusions:

a) Your conclusion is that it's fine to advertise SC here in order to support them in making more and more money because you believe in better results.

b) Others came to the conclusion that it's not sure at all whether SC will become better (or the 'BDSSE' Around the Verse are implying again) with more and more money, therefore WARNING the ED community not to jump too easily into a promise that could easily turn out to be a pure money sunk!

And this debate will go on as long as others will continue to advertise here to throw more and more money to CIG! ;)
 
You're right about the preferences thing. Not everyone will like ED, not everyone will like SC. What turns *me* off is the fact that everyone's quick to find excuses for the current state of SC, while giving ED a hard time.

"Oh it's just late because it's so amazing"
"AC was rushed because we the fans were so impatient"
"SC is not late, it's just so complex and vast that it takes a long time"
etc.

Over two months after the first release of AC and we're still getting more promises, more ship sales, more stuff you can spend your money on and there's very little in terms of tangible, real game updates.

And no, promises, sketches and renders don't count.

I don't think people give ED a hard time? I think what people expect from a beta product might effect on how they review Elite though. Elite is far in development and that's why people can sit and properly discuss it more well just because it's close to release.

While SC has it's mini flying module for 2,5 months now and that is just a tiny and incomplete piece of what they are planning to do. Would people sit down and discuss the first combat missions of ED and be like yea that's it ED is like this! or ED is like that! No. I refrained from making judgements on the combat scenarios and waited for at least 5-8 hours of Beta gameplay to make my opinion of ED.

AC right now is like the first combat scenario missions of ED. It's simple and not there yet. That could be why some people could get defensive when people go at it. Well just because judging a book by it's cover is not good. That being said though a cover could give you a hint of the book. If that hint is fully representative or not of the content? That's luck.

Over two months after the first release of AC and we're still getting more promises, more ship sales, more stuff you can spend your money on and there's very little in terms of tangible, real game updates.

We will get more and more promises until release and even after. That's one thing that won't change unless this project goes down. Now since June 2013 and on we knew that every ship will have a sale so it's no surprise really. And as discussed several pages ago they need constant income so they don't burn out of money next year and cover up their expenses.

It all comes in time. In June we had nobody in Multiplayer for example now we have everyone in. The rubberbanding is fixed and the multiplayer netcode is running smoothly. Before that we had 4 updates with a lot of fixes and improvements to the game. Now I know everyone wants ONE BIG UPDATE to fix everything but that's not going to happen.

Their main priority for the past 2 months was stability,netcode optimization and balancing with a few sound passes. If I was leading this project I would do the same because you can't jump content without a proper base code to support it. I would never release content when my MP was broken or when a quarter of my players were crashing due to hardware incompabilities. It doesn't make sense.

But now is kind of the time. In the last patch we had the first Cockpit alerts integrated to the Hornet for example. We will see more of this stuff coming up. I expect a lot of content driven patches in the next months. But it's no surprise they are concentrating on fixing stuff after releasing a module. That's how game development should work.

Yes, and we came to different conclusions:

a) Your conclusion is that it's fine to advertise SC here in order to support them in making more and more money because you believe in better results.

b) Others came to the conclusion that it's not sure at all whether SC will become better (or the 'BDSSE' Around the Verse are implying again) with more and more money, therefore WARNING the ED community not to jump too easily into a promise that could easily turn out to be a pure money sunk!

And this debate will go on as long as others will continue to advertise here to throw more and more money to CIG! ;)

So talking about SC in an SC thread is advertising? Let's take the Elite Dangerous thread off the SC forums then? No. Because that's mental. I want proper info from ED in the SC forums and the same vice versa. Why can't you accept that having info on both games is something good and not bad?

I have no interest in making people back the game except for my friends who are interested in the space genre and I always tell them to check out Elite, Limit Theory and the other games while doing so to keep them objective.

If you know even the tiniest thing about running a business you would understand why Star Citizen needs sales to balance their burn out rate. But I guess oh my god how can they makes no sense right? If sales stop by next year there is no CIG anymore. If they go on until release there is CIG even 1 year after release.
 
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psyron

Banned
...
We will get more and more promises until release and even after. That's one thing that won't change unless this project goes down.
...

And with it the money of all backers - in average 100$ per 'Citizen'!
 
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psyron

Banned
Which they give? You seem to be very interested in how other people spend their money which is none of your business? It's theirs.

So is it YOUR BUSINESS? Since you are advertising to spend even more money on SC ...

Being REALLY part of the ED community i REALLY care about those people, yes.

Therefore i will NOT stop WARNING people about this really doubtful business modell of CIG. :cool:
 
You certainly talked it through. While I understand that they have operating costs, I still feel very uneasy about how there doesn't seem to be a limit to them. I'd feel much happier if CR came out and said "right guys, we need $75m to make this game, and to achieve that we need your help". But I think the reason they're not doing that is because they don't know how much it will cost, because they're unable to stop the scope creep. We see that all the time in CR's communications when he answers a question of the form "will we see xyz in the game?" with the response "that's a really good idea, maybe we'll include it". He needs to just draw a line and make the game, otherwise it'll iterate and iterate and never release.


I fear that you're in for a big letdown when SC finally releases. It has been hyped up so much that said hype is now self-sustaining. It's gone nuclear. There's so much expectation that it has to be the best game ever. And unfortunately I think you're something of a victim of that expectation in that you've set your mind so firmly on SC being what you want from a space game that you're unable to enjoy others simply because they're not SC. As someone who wants ED to succeed, I find it terribly frustrating because it's eating into ED's potential market. There should be room for both (and I plan on playing both) but there's such a negative mindset associated with SC that many people can't.

[And it does work the other way around too; there are rabid fanboys here who can't enjoy SC because they worry that they might actually enjoy another game in the same genre more than their beloved one. But I see that attitude to be more prevalent on the SC forums than on these.]

While I understand your valid point. CR wants to push funding as much as he can because he wants to make the biggest project he can. People seem to be backing this game and every day thousands of people join the SC community so this thing is going uphill. I really doubt that there is a scope creep though. Reason is this. Check all their stretch goals they all make sense and can fit in the universe very easily. Only a few select of them are big features. And as CR said stretch goals are not subject to the release version. So they can be added later as well.

CR is a dreamer. He is very ambitious and this is the best chance he has to make everything he wants reality. So he looks at xyz thinking hmm maybe if the game works out and we have a good thing going we will add that. It's his personality. But I think he started drawing lines a couple of months back. You can hear more no or maybe in his 10FTC answers now. He is iterating that the base game is priority first more than ever.

I actually enjoy the AC module. It has it's nice moments so even now I am pretty fine with the SC project I just think that it's not there yet but what it has is what I am going for. The hype has been huge because their initial campaign was genius and very well planned but the expectations that came with it are a bit too high. Let's just chill out and see what comes at us is what I say.

I play many many games and SC will just be one of the biggest ones that I am looking forward to play. There is no SC has to be the best and others have to suck mentality that I have. I just give games a go and see if I like them or not. Played Eve Online for many many years and I always wanted a game that gave me an experience similar to Mass Effect and Freelancer with more immersion. So SC seems to fit my bill there.

What is eating in to ED's potential market? SC? I think space games help each other out. This whole genre is connected. Remember CR put the ED kickstarter on the Star Citizen page telling SC backers to back Elite too. This kind of cooperation and like minded space genre approach is what we need and sometimes have. This is a huge genre with so many games to play around with. I am both an ED and SC backer.

So is it YOUR BUSINESS? Since you are advertising to spend even more money on SC ...

Being REALLY part of the ED community i REALLY care about those people, yes.

Therefore i will NOT stop WARNING people about this really doubtful business modell of CIG. :cool:

Excuse me but since when do I complain on how people spend their money or on what they spend it on? And I never said to people that they should go spend more money on SC. I just explained why they need more money as a business.
 
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What is eating in to ED's potential market? SC? I think space games help each other out. This whole genre is connected. Remember CR put the ED kickstarter on the Star Citizen page telling SC backers to back Elite too. This kind of cooperation and like minded space genre approach is what we need and sometimes have. This is a huge genre with so many games to play around with. I am both an ED and SC backer.
The trouble is that when one game is promising the moon on a stick, many of those that choose to believe the hype will necessarily feel that other games in the genre are inferior, and won't be able to enjoy them even if they do give them a try. This isn't CR or CIG's fault per se, they're trying to fund the BDSSE and thus are marketing the hell out of it, which adds to the hype.

It just makes me sad that people can't enjoy both games for what they are without worrying that by enjoying the other they're somehow betraying their beloved one.
 
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