You may not know this, but I'm an alumni of the DWE. You won't hear me complaining about distance
Look, I think Pelucheuh makes a solid point; all PvPers are dedicated, highly motivated PvErs. They have to be.
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You may not know this, but I'm an alumni of the DWE. You won't hear me complaining about distance
Look, I think Pelucheuh makes a solid point; all PvPers are dedicated, highly motivated PvErs. They have to be.
You may not know this, but I'm an alumni of the DWE. You won't hear me complaining about distance
Look, I think Pelucheuh makes a solid point; all PvPers are dedicated, highly motivated PvErs. They have to be.
As a means to an end. They will also take as many shortcuts as possible along the way. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be, and it is instructive. The most dedicated will jump through hoops for the chance at having the edge. That's the price of admission, and has been throughout many different games, to be at the top. I do admire the time they put into their builds and engineering, but that doesn't make them lords of the game. The idea that because they take all of that time and express it with their maxed out ships, makes them somehow more knowledgeable about the game, or somehow should be the spokespersons for the game is wrongheaded.
What about duffers like me? Why do I have to be insulted and stereotyped because I just can't take it all that seriously? Why should I be put down because I play like it's a game? It just doesn't follow that my game time has to be measured up to anyone else's. Come on it's just pixels in fake space.
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I'm not insulting you! Us old duffers have to stick together.
I often use PvE as a means to an ends because my primary focus right now is PvP, so most of what I do relates to that, but not all of it. My experience with ED is vast, and I've extensively sampled all playstyles, so don't think for a minute that I don't love this game. In fact, despite their rhetoric at times, I submit that you'll discover most PvPers enjoy the PvE aspect of the game far more than they'll publicly admit. These players, myself included, aren't here because we don't like the game, I can promise you that.
I'm sorry to have given you the impression I blamed you. I would rather that have been a more blanket statement addressed to the more militant of the PvP crowd. Equally I would be pleased if the more militant PvEers would slow their roll with the generalizations. I press for the notion that people should only expect to play with those that share their views. Everyone would be much happier if both camps could/would just learn to accept that there is room for everyone. C'est la vie and all that.
I know, I just cant play a space shooter the same way I send an email.
Will take my loses, I win enough fights. IMO its more important to master fao than fixed. Evasion is the king in todays PvP, bi weave light builds without HD stacking is the meta, DPS comes secondary, if you cant hit the enemy, dps becomes irrelevant.
What about interdictions?
If you PvP you submit into the interaction and sort it out using weapons.
If you're doing the interdicting though?
Also, I play Open but in trade/passenger ships and I'd certainly like to use FA-off with relative mouse to evade better (plus it's training for when I do get into combat), but also avoid fights in the first place when possible (more applicable to smaller ships and not a T9, obviously).
Also, I play Open but in trade/passenger ships and I'd certainly like to use FA-off with relative mouse to evade better (plus it's training for when I do get into combat), but also avoid fights in the first place when possible (more applicable to smaller ships and not a T9, obviously).
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Haha, yeah have seen it actually. You won't even need to overcharge the PP now, since they classed it up.
I haven't got a controller or HOTAS (yet), so kb&m is all I do, and FA-off with non-relative mouse is kinda a mess for me. I know I could just submit and hi-wake everything, but I'd rather at least try to beat interdictions, plus it'll help me get better at that too. But I haven't found a satisfying all-kb&m solution for having relative mouse on but fighting interdictions. Ah well.
I haven't got a controller or HOTAS (yet), so kb&m is all I do, and FA-off with non-relative mouse is kinda a mess for me. I know I could just submit and hi-wake everything, but I'd rather at least try to beat interdictions, plus it'll help me get better at that too. But I haven't found a satisfying all-kb&m solution for having relative mouse on but fighting interdictions. Ah well.
I am not sure you can be anything like serious, the mouse flight model severely restricts your options for manoeuvres... sure you can aim pretty accurately by using mouse targeting but that is not everything - you lose accuracy and precision pretty much everywhere else.
If we were talking about using a 6DOF-mouse (e.g. SpaceNavigator), then that is something completely different. However, there are currently issues with getting that to work out-of-the-box in ED.
As for claiming i do not know what I am talking about? With all due respect, I believe you are too fixated on a particular approach to see the whole picture.
Even Zaphod admitted that they are not a pure KB/M pilot.
If we are talking "pure kb/m" v. "pure HOTAS", my vote would be with the HOTAS every time.
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I am not sure you can be anything like serious, the mouse flight model severely restricts your options for manoeuvres... sure you can aim pretty accurately by using mouse targeting but that is not everything - you lose accuracy and precision pretty much everywhere else.
If we were talking about using a 6DOF-mouse (e.g. SpaceNavigator), then that is something completely different. However, there are currently issues with getting that to work out-of-the-box in ED.
As for claiming i do not know what I am talking about? With all due respect, I believe you are too fixated on a particular approach to see the whole picture.
Even Zaphod admitted that they are not a pure KB/M pilot.
If we are talking "pure kb/m" v. "pure HOTAS", my vote would be with the HOTAS every time.
I don't want to sound rude but you are the one who is too fixated on a particular approach and does not see the whole picture : Yes a mouse only will be restrictive but it does not come alone as a HOTAS is not just a stick.
Kb/M in all aspect gives you more accuracy and precision than HOTAS/controller BUT a HOTAS will be without a doubt more immersive and more fun (for some).
I am not sure you can be anything like serious, the mouse flight model severely restricts your options for manoeuvres... sure you can aim pretty accurately by using mouse targeting but that is not everything - you lose accuracy and precision pretty much everywhere else.
If we were talking about using a 6DOF-mouse (e.g. SpaceNavigator), then that is something completely different. However, there are currently issues with getting that to work out-of-the-box in ED.
As for claiming i do not know what I am talking about? With all due respect, I believe you are too fixated on a particular approach to see the whole picture.
Even Zaphod admitted that they are not a pure KB/M pilot.
If we are talking "pure kb/m" v. "pure HOTAS", my vote would be with the HOTAS every time.
KB/Mouse isn't restrictive at all.
Even without the mouse benefits to precision, the main limiting thing is the throttle. If using a joystick, KB+Joystick would be better than HOTAS as you have better access to all six thrusters and your pips with that configuration as well as your bits and bobs.
The only real restriction to kb/m is the lack of analogue thruster inputs. I don't think that has much impact in a combat situation.
Playing kb/m in WR is a bit tricky, I guess?
I play kb/m on a laptop and HOTAS on my main computer. There is no doubt that aiming is easier with the mouse(pitch/yaw setup). Everything else is better with the HOTAS, in my subjective opinion.
As a bad FA-off player the aim advantage of the mouse is the difference between hitting occasionally and hitting nothing at all. I suspect that this scales up the skill curve. Kb/m means you land more shots.
I doubt that the mouse makes you faster in a FA-off station race or gives you better FA-off landings, but landing shots is more important in combat.
Meaningful PvP Proposal
Go nuts people. Pull it apart, if you find a flaw try to suggest a solution too if you can
Go nuts people. Pull it apart, if you find a flaw try to suggest a solution too if you can
Depends on the joystick/HOTAS, the T-Flight is ok for buttons for anything you might need in general flight or combat situations - it does not quite fully replace a keyboard for control, but it is close and probably the best you will get for the money. The T-Flight can give you "direct" fine analogue control of 4 Axis (RPY+Lateral Straff used to be my nominal setup IIRC) plus the Throttle and with mode switching that means you can set it up quite accurately. I found the T-Flight especially good for SRV control.
With the Warthog on the other hand, I do not have to touch the keyboard except on extremely rare occasions. While I have combined it with a VR solution the Head Look aspect does not add anything that could not be done another way with the Warthog and I would not use the VR with the T-Flight.
KB/M without any supplemental hardware lacks finesse and I have found the motion rarely meets the full capabilities of the craft when compared with HOTAS control, it was one of my biggest complaints about ED when I first started playing it. The best you can hope for is point and shoot/flying which is less than ideal IME and essentially dumbs down the complexities of combat manoeuvres and even puts you at a disadvantage in PvE combat situations IMO/IME. FA/Off mode is largely unnecessary in smaller craft with a HOTAS solution and I would not even consider flying larger craft with a KB/M given my experience with smaller craft.
Wasn't going to add my 2 cents, but since this is still going.
KB/M is vastly superior in combat. Fighting against some of the FA-Off lords, what they are able to get their ships to do is magical compared to FA-On.
I haven't been playing as much recently, but have always been tempted to switch to KB/M for the advantages it gives, but I find using a HOTAS (well, really dual stick so HOSAS) so much more fun. Also kinda bummed that Elite's mechanics give KB/M users such an advantage.
I have the bindings set up for KB/M and have tried them out, but can't bring myself to switch.
And actually mouse and stick could be the best way to go.
Having engaged in combat situations with both... I totally disagree.
FA-Off PvPers may be able to aim fixed weapons better BUT there are manoeuvrability factors that without additional analogue hardware they will simply be unable to achieve with any degree of precision. Where general flight is concerned, KB/M is completely underwhelming and lacking.
Simply put - if you restrict yourself to KB/M you will be at a disadvantage... period... using a HOTAS setup also does not prevent you from using other controls on concert with it though.
Further more, not everything is about PvP either. However, just try and perform some of the more extreme evasive manoeuvres with just a KB/M and you will find them lacking.
I actually ran a HOTAS solution side by side with KB/M when I first got one and KB/M is comparatively limited in manoeuvrability factors. While FA/Off may offset the limits a bit, you may actually find you can pull off similar manoeuvres without using FA/Off using a HOTAS.
Where mouse and stick is concerned, I am not convinced... it would feel extremely unnatural for starters (most sticks and mice are intended for RH use). However, there are some sticks with a mouse "dimple" on the throttle - never liked those things myself.
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Its pretty widely accepted that keyboard and mouse inputs are your go-to for combat flying, but some of the sweetest flying I've ever beheld was with a pilot using two sticks:
[video=youtube;QNM6ercFIsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNM6ercFIsA[/video]
[video=youtube;QNM6ercFIsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNM6ercFIsA[/video]
What kind manoeuvres are there that you can do with HOTAS that you can't do with a KB/M setup?Having engaged in combat situations with both... I totally disagree.
FA-Off PvPers may be able to aim fixed weapons better BUT there are manoeuvrability factors that without additional analogue hardware they will simply be unable to achieve with any degree of precision. Where general flight is concerned, KB/M is completely underwhelming and lacking.
Simply put - if you restrict yourself to KB/M you will be at a disadvantage... period... using a HOTAS setup also does not prevent you from using other controls on concert with it though.
Further more, not everything is about PvP either. However, just try and perform some of the more extreme evasive manoeuvres with just a KB/M and you will find them lacking.
I actually ran a HOTAS solution side by side with KB/M when I first got one and KB/M is comparatively limited in manoeuvrability factors. While FA/Off may offset the limits a bit, you may actually find you can pull off similar manoeuvres without using FA/Off using a HOTAS.
Where mouse and stick is concerned, I am not convinced... it would feel extremely unnatural for starters (most sticks and mice are intended for RH use). However, there are some sticks with a mouse "dimple" on the throttle - never liked those things myself.
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