General / Off-Topic SPOILERS ALLOWED Star Wars Last Jedi SPOILERS ALLOWED

I can see where you're coming from, but I kind of think it's justified in this situation, particularly if you compare her with the original strong female in Sci-Fi that is Ripley.



I disagree with you here bud (shocking I know, but this isn't a PvP/PvE thread ;)). There is a lot wrong with Rey as a character that makes her into a Mary-Sue as much like the original one, her amazing powers cover all the character arch-types of the movie.

I really like Ridley as an actress (I find she's really good at physical comedy. The whole 'reach out' thing in this movie, and her "Oh mai Guuurd. Are you Han Solo, is this the Millenium Falcon! Squee!" fangirl schtick in the last was equally hilarious) but I genuinely regard the character as a Mary-Sue of the highest order (but still nowhere near as bad as Mara Jade was).

As beautifully shot as it was, someone living in the belly of a wrecked AT-AT who's never been off-world shouldn't be able to jump into the cockpit of the Falcon and do a quasi Death Star II run through the belly of a wrecked Star Destroyer

I could apply the same logic to the first Star Wars where a teenager raised on a comfy (compared to Rey's upbringing) moisture farm climbs into the cockpit of the science fiction equivalent of an F-15 and pulls off the Death Star trench run;)
 

Goose4291

Banned
I could apply the same logic to the first Star Wars where a teenager raised on a comfy (compared to Rey's upbringing) moisture farm climbs into the cockpit of the science fiction equivalent of an F-15 and pulls off the Death Star trench run;)

True, but it depends how you read the 'verse as a whole.

All the space combat is supposed to be very WWII pacific campaign, I consider it more like a guy who's spent his last few years conveniently flying a crop duster bulls-eyeing desert vermin down a canyon jumping into a P-51 Mustang. I know it's not in the original cut, but dont red leader/biggs have a discussion about this?
 
True, but it depends how you read the 'verse as a whole.

All the space combat is supposed to be very WWII pacific campaign, I consider it more like a guy who's spent his last few years conveniently flying a crop duster bulls-eyeing desert vermin down a canyon jumping into a P-51 Mustang. I know it's not in the original cut, but dont red leader/biggs have a discussion about this?

It's not that I don't see your point, it's just that imo dissecting Ridley's character involves placing other characters such as young Luke undeservedly on a pedestal when it has always been apparent that the writing in Star Wars films has been weak "take the path of least resistance and just give the audience a fun experience!" fare, and as such I use a different critical yard stick to judge the franchise by. I mean, when it comes to writing my tastes run more to Cormac McCarthy/Steinbeck/Rand, so I do know what good writing is. It's just if I used that particular tool to judge by, I'd flush every single episode down the toilet.

Edit: and I swear on a stack of bibles I'm not sticking up for Rey because I love Daisy Ridley. Totally swear.
 
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Jeez Bill, I think you're taking it too seriously. No character in any Star Wars movie ever would withstand that particular line of reasoning.

:D That's the great thing, Jase, they all can! The original trilogy had simple, uplifting storylines told through basic, easily recognisable characters. Leia the princess, Han the rogue, Luke the heroic farm boy. They weren't groundbreaking, but that's not a bad thing. We've been telling each other stories since the ice age, we know what works. Star Wars wasn't the next Great American Novel, it was space opera. They're still the only films to do it right, but that's a topic for another thread. The characters were well grounded and followed a pleasing, satisfying development arc, making them some of the best loved icons of the twentieth century.

Consider Leia. She's a strong female character, who saw a full story arc in the original trilogy and had great potential for a spin off series of her own. (Now that's something I'd pay money to see... or would have, before Disney rocked up and set about destroying anything and everything to do with the original franchise. :rolleyes:)
Leia is a princess. We first meet her as an entitled aristocratic brat, running errands for the grown ups and without the first clue about just how eveil and dangerous her captor was. She cheeks up to Darth Vader, sneers at her rescue party and damsels to the nearest responsible adult, General Kenobi. She also develops a painfully obvious crush on the bad boy smuggler. She overcomes many setbacks and great personal loss, matures enormously, becomes much less self centred and gives her all to her cause and the people she loves, eventually earning the title she was given free, becoming the leader of the Rebellion and the soon to be re-instated Republic.
She doesn't achieve any of this by being mysteriously able to out perform every character in the movie at every skill they demonstrate, or by being instantly loved and adored by literally everyone she meets! ;)

George Lucas has always been a cutting room type of film maker, able to create amazing visuals on a shoestring budget, but not that clever when it comes to dialog. His young cast got a great deal of input into what their characters said and did, which worked out stunningly well for the first three movies. Naturally, Kathleen 'artistic differences' Kennedy wasn't letting any mansplaining get in the way of her propaganda masterpiece, so that went out the window in the latest picture. Take in a few of Mark Hamils recent interviews; he had absolutely no input whatsoever into the development of his character. Which goes a long way toward explaining why Kennedy's Skywalker is a complete stranger to anyone who's seen the original three.

No actor worth their salt should want to play a Mary Sue. I actually feel quite sorry for filmakers these days, given the outrage and kickback they get whenever they try to portray any kind of weakness or flaw in their heroines. It's no excuse, though. Taking a few pelters on twater is sod all considered next to the slings and arrows most people face in their daily lives. The glitterati are extremely well paid to entertain us mere peons- crack on, luvvies! :p



I could apply the same logic to the first Star Wars where a teenager raised on a comfy (compared to Rey's upbringing) moisture farm climbs into the cockpit of the science fiction equivalent of an F-15 and pulls off the Death Star trench run;)

Not quite the case, mate. Luke was a farm boy raised on Tatooine. His whole existence was based around using high technology to raise crops in the desert. Some of that tech involved fliers and Luke was already an accomplished pilot before the film started. Remember these lines?
Biggs Darklighter: "T-16s are a lot like the snubfighters we're using."
Luke Skywalker: "I know, I looked one over. I'm sure I can handle it."

A T-16 is a small 'tropospheric' craft. Biggs again:
"You may be the hottest bush pilot this side of Mos Eisley, Luke, but those little skyhoppers can be dangerous. They move awfully fast for tropospheric craft—faster than they need to. Keep playing engine jockey with one and someday, whammo! You're going to be nothing more than a dark spot on the damp side of a canyon wall."
Luke used his T-16 to shoot Womp Rats in Beggars canyon- 2m long native wildlife, in a trench, at high speed, in a craft very similar to an X-Wing. (Both craft were allegedly manufactured by Incom; the X-Wing was the T-65).

Tbh, Luke was probably better qualified for the mission than most of the Rebel pilots he flew alongside! [hotas]

24510567377_2cae9b421c_b.jpg
[/URL]T-16 by William Clement, on Flickr[/IMG]

The 'real' T-16 didn't feature in the film for budgetary reasons. That's the model they were going to blue screen in Mark's hand. :)
 
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:D That's the great thing, Jase, they all can! The original trilogy had simple, uplifting storylines told through basic, easily recognisable characters. Leia the princess, Han the rogue, Luke the heroic farm boy. They weren't groundbreaking, but that's not a bad thing. We've been telling each other stories since the ice age, we know what works. Star Wars wasn't the next Great American Novel, it was space opera. They're still the only films to do it right, but that's a topic for another thread. The characters were well grounded and followed a pleasing, satisfying development arc, making them some of the best loved icons of the twentieth century.

Consider Leia. She's a strong female character, who saw a full story arc in the original trilogy and had great potential for a spin off series of her own. (Now that's something I'd pay money to see... or would have, before Disney rocked up and set about destroying anything and everything to do with the original franchise. :rolleyes:)
Leia is a princess. We first meet her as an entitled aristocratic brat, running errands for the grown ups and without the first clue about just how eveil and dangerous her captor was. She cheeks up to Darth Vader, sneers at her rescue party and damsels to the nearest responsible adult, General Kenobi. She also develops a painfully obvious crush on the bad boy smuggler. She overcomes many setbacks and great personal loss, matures enormously, becomes much less self centred and gives her all to her cause and the people she loves, eventually earning the title she was given free, becoming the leader of the Rebellion and the soon to be re-instated Republic.
She doesn't achieve any of this by being mysteriously able to out perform every character in the movie at every skill they demonstrate, or by being instantly loved and adored by literally everyone she meets! ;)

George Lucas has always been a cutting room type of film maker, able to create amazing visuals on a shoestring budget, but not that clever when it comes to dialog. His young cast got a great deal of input into what their characters said and did, which worked out stunningly well for the first three movies. Naturally, Kathleen 'artistic differences' Kennedy wasn't letting any mansplaining get in the way of her propaganda masterpiece, so that went out the window in the latest picture. Take in a few of Mark Hamils recent interviews; he had absolutely no input whatsoever into the development of his character. Which goes a long way toward explaining why Kennedy's Skywalker is a complete stranger to anyone who's seen the original three.

No actor worth their salt should want to play a Mary Sue. I actually feel quite sorry for filmakers these days, given the outrage and kickback they get whenever they try to portray any kind of weakness or flaw in their heroines. It's no excuse, though. Taking a few pelters on twater is sod all considered next to the slings and arrows most people face in their daily lives. The glitterati are extremely well paid to entertain us mere peons- crack on, luvvies! :p





Not quite the case, mate. Luke was a farm boy raised on Tatooine. His whole existence was based around using high technology to raise crops in the desert. Some of that tech involved fliers and Luke was already an accomplished pilot before the film started. Remember these lines?
Biggs Darklighter: "T-16s are a lot like the snubfighters we're using."
Luke Skywalker: "I know, I looked one over. I'm sure I can handle it."

A T-16 is a small 'tropospheric' craft. Biggs again:
"You may be the hottest bush pilot this side of Mos Eisley, Luke, but those little skyhoppers can be dangerous. They move awfully fast for tropospheric craft—faster than they need to. Keep playing engine jockey with one and someday, whammo! You're going to be nothing more than a dark spot on the damp side of a canyon wall."
Luke used his T-16 to shoot Womp Rats in Beggars canyon- 2m long native wildlife, in a trench, at high speed, in a craft very similar to an X-Wing. (Both craft were allegedly manufactured by Incom; the X-Wing was the T-65).

Tbh, Luke was probably better qualified for the mission than most of the Rebel pilots he flew alongside! [hotas]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4591/24510567377_2cae9b421c_b.jpgT-16 by William Clement, on Flickr

The 'real' T-16 didn't feature in the film for budgetary reasons. That's the model they were going to blue screen in Mark's hand. :)

Damn Bill, you dropped a wall on my head! I'm going to rep you now and just bow out of this aspect of the discussion:)
 
Hilarious and also very accurate vid from Nostalgia Critic:

[video=youtube;J3gciAsltCw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3gciAsltCw[/video]
 
The original trilogy had simple, uplifting storylines told through basic, easily recognisable characters.

Yes, the original trilogy (4-6) was about archetypal characters who manifested good and evil; the classic forms of any good story, myth or fairy tale.

The second trilogy (1-3) was about how those archetypes were brought to life.

This trilogy (7-9) seems to be about destroying those archetypes (and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing).

I thought Rogue One was a good war movie, and would have been even if it hadn't been set in the Star WarsTM universe. (Think Heroes of Telemark).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heroes_of_Telemark
 
This trilogy (7-9) seems to be about destroying those archetypes (and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing).

I agree with this totally, a move into the grey. In the originals, obvious (especially given the Sith Jedi theme) light and dark were clear and defined, now you've got the same weapons makers selling guns to both sides, Po's mistaking Holdo, even Rose taking the oblique action saving Fin, letting the baddies into the base but with a higher motive. If we keep on this track I can see those kinds of themes becoming much more interesting than man with black hat vs man with white hat for ever and a day.
 
Thought I'd start a *SPOILER* Last Jedi/Star Wars discussion for people who have seen the film to discuss.

So who's seen it what did you think?

Just watched it the other day. It was alright but I found it a little disappointing and underwhelming. Its fair to say that the two hours or so went by quickly but I thought the plot was a bit weak. Rogue One was way better imo.

They killed off Snook which seemed kinda silly.. His guards put up more of a fight and those little bird things only seemed to be in it for merchandising. Also the way Luke vanished into the ether and yoda making an appearance just seemed a bit lame.

That scene with Leia floating back into the ship.. really?
 
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Who Buys Star Wars Toys? No One...

In this follow up to the hugely popular Star Wars is a Dead Brand video, we look at the state of Star Wars merchandise 6 months later. :rolleyes:

[video=youtube;RFqsiuPxfn8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFqsiuPxfn8[/video]
 
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They killed off Snook which seemed kinda silly.. His guards put up more of a fight and those little bird things only seemed to be in it for merchandising. Also the way Luke vanished into the ether and yoda making an appearance just seemed a bit lame.

Apparently the Puffins were nesting on Skellig Michael during the summer shoot and that had something to do with creating a puffin-like creature. They put a digital matte on, to avoid moving protected bird nests.

I saw the film again at the weekend, going with a mate who's wife didn't want to go. I still say it's for kids, as the mythology has never been all that deep - the Force is "God" right - so find the interweb's butt hurt amusing still.

Would say I enjoyed the film more on second viewing. Ultimately much more interesting for me that Luke cottoned on to the idea of why the Jedi failed (principle complaint being that his character would never "give up"? I don't think he has, having an oblique purpose) and I find Rey's effortless use of the Force quite mesmerising. The moment when she closed her eyes on the cliff edge in Force Awakens was a stand out image for me.

As for the toys, good thing if sales are reduced probably. Last Jedi had messages about veganism, maybe Disney will come to understand plastic pollution too? The Last Jedi has made over a BILLION dollars profit so far, which aint bad and although the lion share of cash has always been made from toys in the past - building the iconic brand - maybe going forward, the business model might change now? People are not exactly unaware of the brand, by now.
 
Apparently the Puffins were nesting on Skellig Michael during the summer shoot and that had something to do with creating a puffin-like creature. They put a digital matte on, to avoid moving protected bird nests.

I saw the film again at the weekend, going with a mate who's wife didn't want to go. I still say it's for kids, as the mythology has never been all that deep - the Force is "God" right - so find the interweb's butt hurt amusing still.

Would say I enjoyed the film more on second viewing. Ultimately much more interesting for me that Luke cottoned on to the idea of why the Jedi failed (principle complaint being that his character would never "give up"? I don't think he has, having an oblique purpose) and I find Rey's effortless use of the Force quite mesmerising. The moment when she closed her eyes on the cliff edge in Force Awakens was a stand out image for me.

As for the toys, good thing if sales are reduced probably. Last Jedi had messages about veganism, maybe Disney will come to understand plastic pollution too? The Last Jedi has made over a BILLION dollars profit so far, which aint bad and although the lion share of cash has always been made from toys in the past - building the iconic brand - maybe going forward, the business model might change now? People are not exactly unaware of the brand, by now.

I'm glad about the puffins, they are fantastic little beasties.
 
I just got done watching the Last Jedi.
I didn't bother going to the cinema to watch it.


It was crap. Lol

Although the "Hyperspace bit" was incredibly awesome.
Not sure why they didn't think to do that sooner though.
Like, 7 movies ago. Lol
 
I just got done watching the Last Jedi.
I didn't bother going to the cinema to watch it.


It was crap. Lol

"I'm sorry, your application to be the writer for the next star wars movies has been denied on the grounds that you have too many braincells for the job."

Completely agree with you. But shh shh, don't think, just watch the bright explosions.


Although the "Hyperspace bit" was incredibly awesome.
Not sure why they didn't think to do that sooner though.
Like, 7 movies ago. Lol

Yup, kinda deflates all space battles in all of star wars, ever. But who cares. It's a franchise, not a cohesive fantasy universe.
The only downside to the hyberspace bit is that we're now treated to a million "How Disney revolutionized the usage of silence" and "Stupid audiences thought the audio was broken!"-articles on such high quality sites like salon, variety and businessinsider. Because nobody used silence in a movie before, ever.

Can't wait for the first superhero movie with a black lead actor. Because there hasn't been one before, ever.

*goes home and watches "Blade"*
 
"I'm sorry, your application to be the writer for the next star wars movies has been denied on the grounds that you have too many braincells for the job."

Completely agree with you. But shh shh, don't think, just watch the bright explosions.

To be completely honest, Star Wars were always kind of crap. Before the CGI they were interesting from the technical standpoint and there was some impressive cinematography going on through out the franchise, but story and character wise - I don't think they ever were anything to write home about. I still love SW, though.
Just as I love any good B-movie. :D
 
i watched this film again last night and i actually turned it off half way through and watched something else.
2nd time viewing it (first cinema) and i couldnt make it all the way through.

Luke being killed, porgs, SJW in your face, bad jokes.... all this aside, its just a terribly written and badly paced movie with the stupidest plot. Im constantly being pulled out of the story by ridiculous things.
 
If you have the time these are worth watching.

[video=youtube;vw7pcCj0ORk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw7pcCj0ORk[/video]
[video=youtube;_gRC4L6lNoc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gRC4L6lNoc[/video]
[video=youtube;yFnMMzqjYGw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFnMMzqjYGw[/video]
 
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