Half a billion credit bounty in Eravate

Truesilver

Truesilver
Before we get back to the topic of how to kill (or attempt, or fail to kill) a max-specced PvP ship, can I just quickly explain, for any players scratching their heads, why Frontier cannot and will not permit anything more than trivial recovery of PvP bounties...?

It's because high / full recovery would...

(A) Turn the victims into golden ore - a raw material; and

(B) Make the act of killing into the refining of the ore into golden currency; and

(C) Permit the ore miner / refiner to act as a gold seller.

In other words, if you can farm player kills up to (eg) a 1 billion bounty, then you've effectively "created" a billion creds of transferrable assets, which you can then either RL sell for hard cash as as a pro gold seller, or exploit-o-share with a friend ... completely circumventing the deliberate choke-point of cargo transfer.

All of this has happened in ED before. In early 2015 certain groups specialised in using the 'cargo scan exploit' (whereby scanning a ship holding illegal goods with cargo and KWS scanner would "create" a massive bounty) which the group members took turns to collect, making them all overnight into billionaires, at a time when to do that legit took months.

Frontier will never, ever move on this.
 

Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Arguendo
Truesilver said:
In other words, if you can farm player kills up to (eg) a 1 billion bounty, then you've effectively "created" a billion creds of transferrable assets, which you can then either RL sell for hard cash as as a pro gold seller, or exploit-o-share with a friend ... completely circumventing the deliberate choke-point of cargo transfer.
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Perhaps the new bounty system is confusing me, but isn't part of it that the wanted player has to pay for the bounties + rebuy? I know there are some parts that aren't working as intended quite yet, as have been proven by players going from hundreds of millions in bounties to a clean ship with hardly a dent in their credit balance. If it however is made to work as intendended, then the player dying would lose atleast as much as the player collecting the bounty would gain, so at best it would be a zero-sum game. At worst, one player would go bankrupt.
I guess a throwaway account could do it, but that seems overly wasteful to me.

Again, there may be parts of the new bounty section of C&P that has eluded me, but that's how I thought it was meant to work after 3.0.

EDIT/ADD ON:
The images in the OP clearly indicates that the main issue is with the implemenation of ATR, as I have said many times since 3.0.
From the "Crime and Punishment in Beyond Chapter One" OP in News;
Once ATR ships respond to crimes, they will continue to respond until the Commander leaves the system.
Click to expand...

Obviously that is not the case for ATR, due to their incessant amnesia. If they worked properly and remembered who they were chasing and why (ie. also hunted in Supercruise until target Highwakes, and patrolled the system for a set time period after the highwake), there wouldn't be a way to get a bounty that high.
 
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Truesilver

Truesilver
CMDR Arguendo said:
If it however is made to work as intendended, then the player dying would lose atleast as much as the player collecting the bounty would gain, so at best it would be a zero-sum game. At worst, one player would go bankrupt.
I guess a throwaway account could do it, but that seems overly wasteful to me.
Click to expand...

The problem as I understand it is that there are people IRL willing to work for less than one dollar per hour who whenever we get a cash cow could, in the space of say 50 hours, make literally 10 billion creds per account. These would in turn then provide the foundations for RL cash selling of creds via massive bounties.

And that's without the possibility of group account sharing for free, i.e. not for RL cash but group advantage.

I repeat, I don't think Frontier will ever permit more than trivial credit transfer via bounty PvP kills, therefore.

The true discussion, it seems to me, is over how PvP bounty hunting can be facilitated as a RP/endgame thing, not as a credits thing.
 

c00ky1970

c00ky1970
Anecdotally, from posts made by Beseiger it appears that ATR poses no threat or distraction to those that want to "whack-a-mole"

The problem is balance, FDev dont want to eliminate PvP consensual or non-consensual, but they shoudl have something robust and a bit more intelligent that can deter people from operating in High sec systems.

I like the idea of harrasment if player low wakes, ongoing interdiction attempts that in all likelihood will not be successful but should encourage bad bois to off to another system.

I believe that the current work around to ATR is to just log out and log in again after killing a CMDR, resets instance and ATR timers etc. Which is a bit cheesey.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
c00ky1970 said:
Anecdotally, from posts made by Beseiger it appears that ATR poses no threat or distraction to those that want to "whack-a-mole"

The problem is balance, FDev dont want to eliminate PvP consensual or non-consensual, but they shoudl have something robust and a bit more intelligent that can deter people from operating in High sec systems.

I like the idea of harrasment if player low wakes, ongoing interdiction attempts that in all likelihood will not be successful but should encourage bad bois to off to another system.

I believe that the current work around to ATR is to just log out and log in again after killing a CMDR, resets instance and ATR timers etc. Which is a bit cheesey.
Click to expand...

And it will be most likely mitigated in next ATR versions.
 

Flimsey

Flimsey
Truesilver said:
Before we get back to the topic of how to kill (or attempt, or fail to kill) a max-specced PvP ship, can I just quickly explain, for any players scratching their heads, why Frontier cannot and will not permit anything more than trivial recovery of PvP bounties...?

It's because high / full recovery would...

(A) Turn the victims into golden ore - a raw material; and

(B) Make the act of killing into the refining of the ore into golden currency; and

(C) Permit the ore miner / refiner to act as a gold seller.

In other words, if you can farm player kills up to (eg) a 1 billion bounty, then you've effectively "created" a billion creds of transferrable assets, which you can then either RL sell for hard cash as as a pro gold seller, or exploit-o-share with a friend ... completely circumventing the deliberate choke-point of cargo transfer.

All of this has happened in ED before. In early 2015 certain groups specialised in using the 'cargo scan exploit' (whereby scanning a ship holding illegal goods with cargo and KWS scanner would "create" a massive bounty) which the group members took turns to collect, making them all overnight into billionaires, at a time when to do that legit took months.

Frontier will never, ever move on this.
Click to expand...

Truesilver said:
The problem as I understand it is that there are people IRL willing to work for less than one dollar per hour who whenever we get a cash cow could, in the space of say 50 hours, make literally 10 billion creds per account. These would in turn then provide the foundations for RL cash selling of creds via massive bounties.

And that's without the possibility of group account sharing for free, i.e. not for RL cash but group advantage.

I repeat, I don't think Frontier will ever permit more than trivial credit transfer via bounty PvP kills, therefore.

The true discussion, it seems to me, is over how PvP bounty hunting can be facilitated as a RP/endgame thing, not as a credits thing.
Click to expand...

These two posts should be put on the top of the board and never taken down, because so manny questions about why PVP-BH do mot pay more.
 

Cliffson

Cliffson
Several us in the beta gave feedback that ATR would achieve something between nothing and sod all (except to upset a few dozy PvE bounty farmers) due to their lack of persistency.

The sad thing is all the effort wasted in implimenting the station gun toting abomination that is ATR would have achieved more if spent:

Modifying NPC (security) load outs to include engineering on weapons to cope with the bad joke which is player hitpoint inflation.

Making existing security ships persistant (like NPC bounty hunters are)
This would tie in nicely to the new noterity system so (for example)
0-3 noteriety police act normally
4-6 police are aware of your presence so when responding to a crime do so "weapons hot" and instantly starting shooting at you
7+ police are on high alert and so drop on your low wake instantly. On entering SC a police wing will immediately spawn and move to interdict. Time to leave till the heat dies down.

But instead in true FDev stylr they applied a band-aid (god level npc ships) to fix a problem of their own making (invincible player engineered ships killing or ignoring npc security at will) which doesnt even work as no one being naughty is dumb enough to wait the 60seconds to be shot.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Cliffson said:
Several us in the beta gave feedback that ATR would achieve something between nothing and sod all (except to upset a few dozy PvE bounty farmers) due to their lack of persistency.

The sad thing is all the effort wasted in implimenting the station gun toting abomination that is ATR would have achieved more if spent:

Modifying NPC (security) load outs to include engineering on weapons to cope with the bad joke which is player hitpoint inflation.

Making existing security ships persistant (like NPC bounty hunters are)
This would tie in nicely to the new noterity system so (for example)
0-3 noteriety police act normally
4-6 police are aware of your presence so when responding to a crime do so "weapons hot" and instantly starting shooting at you
7+ police are on high alert and so drop on your low wake instantly. On entering SC a police wing will immediately spawn and move to interdict. Time to leave till the heat dies down.

But instead in true FDev stylr they applied a band-aid (god level npc ships) to fix a problem of their own making (invincible player engineered ships killing or ignoring npc security at will) which doesnt even work as no one being naughty is dumb enough to wait the 60seconds to be shot.
Click to expand...

The new C&P system has closed the suicidewinder loophole, which means the 'real' bounty figures are now being seen - that's good. The whole system is currently too harsh at the low end & not severe enough at the high end, but it does solve a lot of issues. Just not all of them ;)
 

Cliffson

Cliffson
Riverside said:
The new C&P system has closed the suicidewinder loophole, which means the 'real' bounty figures are now being seen - that's good. The whole system is currently too harsh at the low end & not severe enough at the high end, but it does solve a lot of issues. Just not all of them ;)
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Oh i agree the new CnP is a great move in the right direction. Its specifically ATR (and hitpoint inflation but thats a different topic) i have a problem with.
 

philngraves

philngraves
If they had a voluntary sub system to support servers to allow for persistent npc's I think I would sub. Even if there was no incentive at all, contributing to a robust system with real bounty hunting via wake scanners etc, persistent security forces, ATR without the tardo reverb lasers... could be a beautiful thing.

Oh, and mabye, just maybe, less instancing errors? Ahh, damn, I just woke up from a wonderful dream.

vindelanos said:
Dude, I'll kill you for 200 Cr.

As long as I get to slap that wanted poster on the desk of the claims office, I don't care :)
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What about 3 credits and a moldy egg mcmuffin... without cheese?
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
c00ky1970 said:
Anecdotally, from posts made by Beseiger it appears that ATR poses no threat or distraction to those that want to "whack-a-mole"

The problem is balance, FDev dont want to eliminate PvP consensual or non-consensual, but they shoudl have something robust and a bit more intelligent that can deter people from operating in High sec systems.

I like the idea of harrasment if player low wakes, ongoing interdiction attempts that in all likelihood will not be successful but should encourage bad bois to off to another system.

I believe that the current work around to ATR is to just log out and log in again after killing a CMDR, resets instance and ATR timers etc. Which is a bit cheesey.
Click to expand...

The fix was pretty simple from the get go. Allow traders to hire security to escort them (be they players or AI) and to have never allowed "Engineers" in the first place or the magic health potions. Then attacking a trader for their goods would pose a significant risk in that the escorts would be a threat but not only that - the security system forces would show up in time to help out as well.

That would have been dependant on the system of course - Anarchy systems no security would show up but then the prices would be higher so more profit.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
philngraves said:
If they had a voluntary sub system to support servers to allow for persistent npc's I think I would sub. Even if there was no incentive at all, contributing to a robust system with real bounty hunting via wake scanners etc, persistent security forces, ATR without the tardo reverb lasers... could be a beautiful thing.

Oh, and mabye, just maybe, less instancing errors? Ahh, damn, I just woke up from a wonderful dream.


What about 3 credits and a moldy egg mcmuffin... without cheese?
Click to expand...

...long as it's got bacon on it! ;)
 

Riverside

Riverside
vindelanos said:
Dude, I'll kill you for 200 Cr.

As long as I get to slap that wanted poster on the desk of the claims office, I don't care :)
Click to expand...

I like this approach. I also like the idea that while I might not see that cash, the baddie will have to pay it, that gives PvP some meaning ;)
 
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