Yeah that looks pretty bad. instead of fixing the mechanics that it can't be exploited so easily, FDev again just nerfed it into uselessness...
Wing mission balance pass
- Thread starter Bryski
- Start date
Yeah that looks pretty bad. instead of fixing the mechanics that it can't be exploited so easily, FDev again just nerfed it into uselessness...
PanTast, I would but I'm at the office, could you do me a favour please and go to Daedalus (Sol) and look at the wing deliveries? I was seeing several for between 12 and 15m last night for 2500 to 3500 Insulating Membranes. Of course you'll need to be allied to see those missions with those kinds of payouts. If you are thouh, I can tell you straight away what the difference is, I was studying and calculating these for effectiveness last night. 
Wing mission rewards doesn't makes absolutely no sense. They should be merged with normal solo missions that every mission can be done solo or in wing. But instead of paying every player full reward it should pay half, third or quarter of original reward depending on how many player hand out this mission.
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Dear Adam, please please please note that is not an opportunity to reduce solo mission payouts.
Define "slightly"?
Wing missions used to be around 3,000 cargo and now they're at around 8,000. Payouts are too random to be using cargo value as a base for it's reward. If RNG is being unstable, then set a minimum or maximum, using cargo value as the laying of the cake. Some examples:
- 1,500t of Imperial Slaves = 19m CR (13k CR value * amount)
- 3,000t of Gold = 23m CR (8k CR value * amount)
- 1,800t of Tobacco = 7m CR (4k CR value * amount)
Hope this helps.
- CMDR StarfireIX
Why not push them to their own tab like passengers? There's always going to be too many wing missions on one board and not enough on another board. Say I want to do a mission in a wing, at the moment, regardless of the spawns on the board, there will always be times when we will have to hunt around boards for wing missions because none will appear some times and loads another time. You solved this issue by making a separate passenger lounge; why not do this type of thing for wing missions? Break the standard mission board down into single missions and wing missions?
Or, even better, don't have separately designated Wing Missions™at all. Allow players to share normal missions with their wing.
Take the things that are good with the wing missions and apply them across the board to normal missions, so you have missions that look like
- Huge deliveries that are clearly too big for a single trip (can be completed solo or in wing)
- A subset of these huge deliveries to have obscenely short timers that cannot be completed solo
- Sharing all missions with a wing
- Participants don't have to all do the same activity to benefit from the wing rewards - like with multi-crew, have it so that the CMDR who took the mission is always designated a cargo ship, and when shared, the other wing members can choose the options "support", "idle" or "cargo" - where "idle" doesn't get you the wing rewards, and "support" and "cargo" require you do do those things to be entitled to the rewards.
- Make it so that some of the huge delivery missions have a higher incidence of spawning strong engineered pirate NPCs, to give a need for support craft.
Hi,
Just to be clear my comments were related to the wing delivery missions only. I have not touched massacre or assassination at this time.
Adam
Looking at the numbers, the ranges are:
Old - Between 375 and 7500 units of cargo
New - Between 320 and 8,100 units of cargo
If anyone has seen cargo above 8,100 I would be really interested to see that as it means my maths is wrong!
As for the rewards, cargo is an element but we take several factors into account including distance, rank, reputation and distance from the star.
Adam
I understand the need for balance, so that both solo and wing players can each do their thing and make a decent amount of creds, but unless it's reasonably balanced, hitting one with massive nerfs forces people to do the other more. Wing missions did need to be changed as solo players were farming wing missions, which means the floor needed raising but it seems a bit too much. The minimum units could have gone up by a smaller amount than what some of us might be seeing, or by a lot as long as the rewards went up a bit as well. So say either a 50% minimum units increase and no reward increase, or a 100% minimum unit increase with a 50% reward increase. These numbers are made up, but the point is you want to put wing missions out of distance from solo players by making it too much effort, you don't want to then make them so unprofitable there's no point doing them.
I've taken some screenshots at the hub my wing have been doing missions from, I have none for last night as I didn't expect to need them to show, but what we're seeing is that we were getting wing missions from around 10m creds, minimum 1600 unit to around 4000 max, and now its 4000 minimum, 8000 max for the same creds. That doesn't like a slight curve change to me, but perhaps it's all rng on what I'm seeing, I know across thousands of players that min/max will look different.
https://imgur.com/a/F2H3L
I've taken some screenshots at the hub my wing have been doing missions from, I have none for last night as I didn't expect to need them to show, but what we're seeing is that we were getting wing missions from around 10m creds, minimum 1600 unit to around 4000 max, and now its 4000 minimum, 8000 max for the same creds. That doesn't like a slight curve change to me, but perhaps it's all rng on what I'm seeing, I know across thousands of players that min/max will look different.
https://imgur.com/a/F2H3L
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Someone who uses limpets?
Hmm, fair point.
The cargo that is required isn't really my main concern, but the value seems low when you compare the standard value of a commodity with the amount required to haul it. I was thinking perhaps a filter where the higher rep you are, the more you can haul in certain missions. Seeing a mission with a high amount but a low reward at a low reputation may seem overwhelming for the player. So another example:
Cordial: 320 - 1000 (3m CR - 5m CR)
Friendly: 500 - 2000 (5m CR - 9m CR)
Allied: 1000 - 8100 (7m CR - 15m CR)
If you have a higher trade rank than the recommended trade rank, then the mission might offer a bit more reward or more hauling. But like I said, it could use cargo amount filters so that it doesn't scare the player. Just my thoughts on all of this.
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stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
That's probably what will happen though.
Perhaps we won't find that, but the issue as I see it is the 3000-8000 units of cargo missions are not worthwhile doing. That is at least 5 x t9 trips at 12-15 minutes each for the low end. 11 trips at the high end. Yes if you have a wing of 4 you might be done in 20 minutes for 3000, but a wing of 2 is much more likely and the payout then doesn't scale. Smaller faster trips will pay more. Again, nothing wrong with the solo missions please! Opportunity to increase wing payouts not reduce current solo missions. Please.
I am sure a wing would happily transport 10k units without question, if the reward justified it.
The creds on offer are my issue here, they are just not worth it at all the way it stands right now :/
If I am doing cargo delivery missions why would I take up 19 inventory slots with limpets ? That is a waste of a reward option.
Is cargo the element that influences the reward the most, or is it equal for all elements? If not, maybe it should?