Notoriery 1 is already heavily disturbing to me

[galahad2069]

It is only "completely unnecessary" in the eyes of a minority like yourself. The vast majority have been begging for a C&P overhaul since January 2015.

You are using the words "minority" and "majority" here.
Was there some kind of formal voting about it? It must have escaped my attention.

I never read anybody whining about how easy it was to live with the occasional bounties and how dearly would they welcome a potentionally harsher environment.

All I could see was some people (I never was one of them BTW) complaining against the evil "griefers" who dared to blow up their virtual spaceships, but this new system won't affect the gamestyle of these "griefer" people in the slightest, so what's the point?

"Beyond" was supposed to bring some QoL changes.
Now please tell me how this system is an improvement over the previous one in terms of convenience or "quality of life".
As things stand now I can see it more of an annoyance.

If they finally manage to eliminate the "cannot use outfitting in anarchies" bug, then the new system will go back to rougly the same level of annoyance as the old one. Still not very much better (with the sole exception of the fact that shooting at an unscanned but wanted ship is no longer considered a crime, but that one could easily have been implemented in the old system as well).

 

[lenna]

So, pseudo-banning me from most gameplay progresses for hours is a very serious punishment, because it has some real-world consequences actually.

I am sorry but you are talking out the wrong orifice.

The notoriety cool-down is far from pseudo-banning you from gameplay - you can still engage in gameplay, you just have to use another ship or at least steer clear of the zones where the ship is wanted.

The long and the short of it is that you committed an in-game crime as a consequence of not using due care and attention and the penalties are fair and reasonable overall.

[EDIT]The notoriety cooldown period was settled on after a review of C&P during the public beta of 3.0. The duration was not arbitrarily settled on by FD in isolation - it was as much a community decision.[/EDIT]

[EDIT]Here is an idea - let the ATR kill you and reset your bounty almost instantly that way, if the cool-down period bothers you that much.[/EDIT]

 

[wakko151]

There are alot of people trying to defend what they see as just do for people who kill other people in open but piracy is not griefing. Most of the people complaining about people complaining are suggesting that we "GIT GUD" and "reap what you sow criminal". Let me just explain the problem in clear and easy terms.

Old System
I commit crimes. I get bounties and fines. I get bounty hunters after me. I am a valid pvp target everywhere. Its hard to dock because if scanned I get blown up.

New System
I commit crimes. I get bounties and fines. I get bounty hunters after me. I am a valid pvp target everywhere. Its hard to dock because if scanned I get blown up. I can't outfit my ship for 20 hours.

I can't outfit my ship for 20 hours. I CAN NOT OUTFIT MY SHIP FOR 20 HOURS.

I can not go to an anarchy system and out fit there. I can not pay off my fines or bounties for 20 hours. It only drops notereiety if I am jumping into and out of instances and systems to refresh the timer.

I can kill you. I can grief you. I can rob you. I can sit around your system blowing things up and then just sell whatever drops at a black market. If I have a ship that does not need to be outfitted then I can grief forever without consequences. This is the new system.

When you play online and get blown up, that person is not griefing you. You lost a fight in open. You are the QQ.

 

[Ian Skippy]

There are alot of people trying to defend what they see as just do for people who kill other people in open but piracy is not griefing. Most of the people complaining about people complaining are suggesting that we "GIT GUD" and "reap what you sow criminal". Let me just explain the problem in clear and easy terms.

Old System
I commit crimes. I get bounties and fines. I get bounty hunters after me. I am a valid pvp target everywhere. Its hard to dock because if scanned I get blown up.

New System
I commit crimes. I get bounties and fines. I get bounty hunters after me. I am a valid pvp target everywhere. Its hard to dock because if scanned I get blown up. I can't outfit my ship for 20 hours.

I can't outfit my ship for 20 hours. I CAN NOT OUTFIT MY SHIP FOR 20 HOURS.

I can not go to an anarchy system and out fit there. I can not pay off my fines or bounties for 20 hours. It only drops notereiety if I am jumping into and out of instances and systems to refresh the timer.

I can kill you. I can grief you. I can rob you. I can sit around your system blowing things up and then just sell whatever drops at a black market. If I have a ship that does not need to be outfitted then I can grief forever without consequences. This is the new system.

When you play online and get blown up, that person is not griefing you. You lost a fight in open. You are the QQ.

Dude, this will change in a couple of days. Outfitting will only be restricted in systems where you are actively wanted. Just chill already...

 

[lenna]

There are alot of people trying to defend what they see as just do for people who kill other people in open but piracy is not griefing

Killing people is not necessarily piracy either, piracy is essentially highway robbery - as killing other players does not result in dropped cargo PvP murder is not the same as PvP piracy.

Griefing is something else, but we digress from the OP's topic of discussion.

As of v3.0.3, the only "safe" place for PvP criminals is essentially anarchy systems.

As for the outfitting restriction, that is slated to be resolved in 3.0.4 according public statements by FD.

Beyond that, you can still switch ships - the restrictions and bounties do not apply to ALL your ships, just the ones you commit crimes in.

 

[[VR] Zakk]

Essentially, yes it was your fault - you failed to check your targets and exercise proper trigger discipline. Anyone that commits the same error should suck it up and accept the consequences.

Fair enough. But:

I made the same mistake. Accepted a mission that required me to shoot down ships of another faction. That wasn't supposed to increase my notoriety, as per the mission description. But I accidentally targeted a wrong ship, that was no mission target. It was an Eagle, so it took my Python about 3 seconds to evaporate it. Oopsie.

So now I got a bounty on me. For 2 days straight. And cannot get rid of it. Interstellar Factors are locked. "We can't be seen associating with such a high-profile individual". Yeah, right.

Authority contacts in the system where I got the bounty are locked as well.

What notoriety level I got? I have no idea, I cannot access a single menu in the game that would tell me.

What I have to do to lose it? I have no idea. I am waiting for 2 days straight now - nothing happened.

In an average system, I get interdicted by bounty hunters about every 2 minutes. Yeah, I get it, I got $10k on me, I'm *the* target for every bounty hunter in the universe.

Sorry, but this C&P system is broken. Looks like the only way I can restore my game is by allowing one of the bounty hunters to shoot me down. This is ridiculous.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

You are using the words "minority" and "majority" here.
Was there some kind of formal voting about it? It must have escaped my attention.

I never read anybody whining about how easy it was to live with the occasional bounties and how dearly would they welcome a potentionally harsher environment.

All I could see was some people (I never was one of them BTW) complaining against the evil "griefers" who dared to blow up their virtual spaceships, but this new system won't affect the gamestyle of these "griefer" people in the slightest, so what's the point?

"Beyond" was supposed to bring some QoL changes.
Now please tell me how this system is and improvement over the previous one in terms of convenience or "quality of life".
As things stand now I can see it more of an annoyance.

If they finally manage to eliminate the "cannot use outfitting in anarchies" bug, then the new system will go back to rougly the same level of annoyance as the old one. Still not very much better (with the sole exception of the fact that shooting at an unscanned but wanted ship is no longer considered a crime, but that one could easily have been implemented in the old system as well).

Then you're suffering from cognitive bias. There were loads of forum posts, especially in the early days, about the need for a C&P overhaul-both for PvP & PvE. You only see it as an "annoyance" because you clearly hate anything that gets in the way of your "pray & spray" approach to combat. The QoL, in part, is in allowing players who want to be criminals to actually *feel* like criminals.....& there are plenty of posts from those kinds of players about how much they enjoy the new C&P system.

Of course, everyone was given an opportunity to participate & give feedbackon C&P during the Open Beta.....but you clearly considered yourself too good to participate. Those of us who did take part, helped shape the final product.....so, sucks to be you I guess.

 

[galahad2069]

Beyond that, you can still switch ships - the restrictions and bounties do not apply to ALL your ships, just the ones you commit crimes in.

Yeah, I have 9 ships, so I can switch ships, provided that I have the patience to wait for an hour until one of my other ships gets transferred to where I am docked.

The fact that I'm docked at a station in an anarchy system means that every single station in the middle of nowhere has a shipyard. And the fact that I have 9 ships logically means the everybody owns more than one ship.

I get it.

 

[lenna]

What notoriety level I got? I have no idea, I cannot access a single menu in the game that would tell me.

Check in the right hand MFD screen and look under the crime section of the CMDR statistics. Notoriety is listed there.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Fair enough. But:

I made the same mistake. Accepted a mission that required me to shoot down ships of another faction. That wasn't supposed to increase my notoriety, as per the mission description. But I accidentally targeted a wrong ship, that was no mission target. It was an Eagle, so it took my Python about 3 seconds to evaporate it. Oopsie.

So now I got a bounty on me. For 2 days straight. And cannot get rid of it. Interstellar Factors are locked. "We can't be seen associating with such a high-profile individual". Yeah, right.

Authority contacts in the system where I got the bounty are locked as well.

What notoriety level I got? I have no idea, I cannot access a single menu in the game that would tell me.

What I have to do to lose it? I have no idea. I am waiting for 2 days straight now - nothing happened.

In an average system, I get interdicted by bounty hunters about every 2 minutes. Yeah, I get it, I got $10k on me, I'm *the* target for every bounty hunter in the universe.

Sorry, but this C&P system is broken. Looks like the only way I can restore my game is by allowing one of the bounty hunters to shoot me down. This is ridiculous.

2 days straight? If you killed one ship then you get 1 notoriety.....which decreases to zero in 2 hours of game-time. There is an indication of your notoriety level on the Right Hand Screen, along with all your other in-game stats. Quite easy to find, though could be even easier to find.

See, when you start throwing out numbers like "2 days straight", I feel inclined to immediately call that a made-up story. Indeed, your entire sob story sounds like a confected load of rubbish.

 

[lenna]

Yeah, I have 9 ships, so I can switch ships, provided that I have the patience to wait for an hour until one of my other ships gets transferred to where I am docked.

The fact that I'm docked at a station in an anarchy system means that every single station in the middle of nowhere has a shipyard. And the fact that I have 9 ships logically means the everybody owns more than one ship.

I get it.

The anarchy system restriction only applies to PvP criminals and there are Anarchy systems with shipyards.

As for waiting for your ship to be delivered, you could always say buy a sidewinder from a local shipyard instead.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What notoriety level I got? I have no idea, I cannot access a single menu in the game that would tell me.

It's on the stats panel (right panel, in the "Crime" section). Rather buried for such an important piece of information, but it is there.

What I have to do to lose it? I have no idea. I am waiting for 2 days straight now - nothing happened.

It should decay by one point every 2 hours you spend logged into the game (but it won't actually tick over if you're docked - you'll need to launch and redock to get the reduction)
Any further murders add one to it and reset the timer.

The easiest way out is probably to switch to a different (Clean) ship, wait for it to drop to zero, and then go back to your ship with a bounty which you can clean at the IF.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I have 1 notoriety and I like it.

Since I just logged off it will still be there when I log on tomorrow.

It might even go up to 2.

 

[[VR] Zakk]

Check in the right hand MFD screen and look under the crime section of the CMDR statistics. Notoriety is listed there.

Yeah, sorry, that sentence wasn't supposed to be in there. What I wanted to say is the game doesn't tell me what I have to do in order to lose the notoriety level. Because, obviously, "wait for 2 hours" doesn't work.

Indeed, your entire sob story sounds like a confected load of rubbish.

Then why don't you mind your own business, instead of hurling baseless accusations around?

I got the bounty on Thursday night. Left the game running yesterday, and while I got disconnected at some point, it was easily after a lot more than 2 hours. And I left it running for another few hours today, this time not getting disconnected. Interstellar factors still won't let me in.

Maybe my mistake was to abandon the mission during which I incurred the bounty, I have no idea. But what do I care, it's all a load of rubbish anyway, right? :x

 

[Jack Schitt]

Have we really regressed from 'accidental strikes should be okay to some extent' to 'accidental murders should be okay to some extent'?

Within the parameters of what the game considers "murder", unfortunately we kinda have. I'm not happy about it either, which I'm sure you picked up from the context, but it's there. Part of the problem (that I didn't explicitly mention but that others have) is that the game currently makes no distinction between out-and-out murder where you blaze away and/or take the kill shot, and incidents where you accidentally scrape someone's hull but cop for a murder charge when someone else pops them. It was always a contentious issue, but now that there's a potential two-hour lockout attached the consequences are much worse.

And I know it's not a "lockout" if you play strategically, but you only have to look at the forums to see how many people have accidentally denied themselves access to their own ships because of this new mechanic. It may be their own faults to some degree, but there's no denying the changes to the game are also a contributing factor. Yes, you can advocate trigger discipline and situational awareness and ship/loadout choices, but at the end of the day accidents do happen and there is a fine balance to be made between giving players a believable game world and annoying the hell out of them. As long as the game mechanics conspire to hand out the same punishment for "obvious" accidents as for premeditated murder this isn't going to go away. "Obvious" to us, of course, not to the game.

Upcoming changes to anarchy outfitting will remove some of this pain, but not the underlying problems. Not unless or until FD can figure out a way for the game to differentiate between accidental and deliberate contribution to a pilot's death. Maybe treating initial PVE hits as accidental, but PVP hits as deliberate, would be an option but it's awkward and horribly "gamey".

I like the current mechanics, Notoriety risk and all, and it fits very well with my playing style. But the polarisation it's caused among the larger playerbase clearly wasn't what FD were aiming for. The whole thing is a mess. Maybe a better mess than it's ever been, but a mess nonetheless.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I like the current mechanics, Notoriety risk and all, and it fits very well with my playing style. But the polarisation it's caused among the larger playerbase clearly wasn't what FD were aiming for. The whole thing is a mess. Maybe a better mess than it's ever been, but a mess nonetheless.

I agree. But dont you think that one what or another ED will always be a mess, simply because of the huge diversity in opinions within the community as to what ED should even be? Some feel it should be Open-only, others wish it were strictly SP. Some feel 'greifings' should be forbidden, others feel it should be as freeform as possible. Some feel you should have billions within a few days, others feel we should strive to scrape by a meager existence. Some want the game to be brutally difficult with killer AI, others want to casually grind NPCs down from the bridge of their Corvette while stonedrunk and feel good about that. Some feel spacelegs is essential for this game to move forward. Others feel it is a complete waste of dev time and totally unrelated to the concept of ED. Some cant wait for atmo planets, others see it as just more space to do the same stuff.

The community itself is polarised about pretty much everything.

 

[the source 0179]

To be honest I dont have much of a problem with the cnp. The only thing that i really dont like and think is absurd is that you can get a murder bounty and noriety for NOT actually killing a npc but just grazing/tagging them or them flying into your shots then getting killed by another npc. This is NOT murder. Maybe assault if you were to take their shields down. I just wonder if a npc grazes my ship then another ship kills me, does that first ship that grazed/tagged me get a murder bounty and noriety on them?
Actually killing a clean npc should be murder BUT grazing them or tagging them then a npc kills them should NOT be murder.

 

[galahad2069]

Then you're suffering from cognitive bias. There were loads of forum posts, especially in the early days, about the need for a C&P overhaul-both for PvP & PvE. You only see it as an "annoyance" because you clearly hate anything that gets in the way of your "pray & spray" approach to combat. The QoL, in part, is in allowing players who want to be criminals to actually *feel* like criminals.....& there are plenty of posts from those kinds of players about how much they enjoy the new C&P system.

Of course, everyone was given an opportunity to participate & give feedbackon C&P during the Open Beta.....but you clearly considered yourself too good to participate. Those of us who did take part, helped shape the final product.....so, sucks to be you I guess.

You don't seem to know what "congitive bias" means. I think the term you were looking for was "sampling bias".

You stated explicitly that "the vast majority have been begging for a C&P overhaul".
How many players are playing this game? 200 thousand? Less? Let's say it's only 10 thousand. In this case the "majority" would mean 5001 players (let's just forget about the word "vast" for a moment).

Are you of FDev really in possession of statistics with at least 5001 players "begging for a C&P overhaul", and for this one in particular? I seriously doubt it.

As for the Open Beta, everyone was given the opportunity to participate. Too bad that not everybody was given enough spare time to do so. Besides, none of those who could and did participate was elected to speak for any part of the community.

The same applies to forum posts. Every single poster can speak for themselves only, and those who do comment in the first place are not necessarily a representative sample of the playerbase as a whole.

Also, it's funny that you know nothing about my approach to combat and yet you feel well informed enough to make assumptions about it.

 

[[VR] Zakk]

(but it won't actually tick over if you're docked - you'll need to launch and redock to get the reduction)

That may have been my mistake. Even launching and re-docking doesn't seem to do the trick, as that's what I had done.
I now waited on open space for about 2 hours. This seems to have worked.

Also, I played in Open when I got the bounty, but tried to sit it out in Solo. That may (or may not) have contributed to things not working out as well.

I'll stick with "stupid and broken mechanic", though. But thanks (and rep) for the help. And more rep to Malkano for the "rabid fanboi" comment.

 

[[VR] Zakk]

Well, I rejoiced too early. While according to my stats I now do have 0 notoriety, Interstellar Factors remains locked, and the bounty is still active. [knocked out]