PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[lenna]

I'm getting mixed messages. [where is it]

Nah, it is just that what PvPers seem to want is NOT what the rest of us want - most seem to see the ED motto of "play it your way" as "play it their way" (or not at all).

Whether we are talking about BGS or Power Play we are not talking about PvP centric features and that irks some - probably EvE (or ex-EvE) players in the main.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'm getting mixed messages. [where is it]

It wouldn't seem mixed if you and like minded players didn't insist on injecting your agenda into every counter opinion you run across.

 

[Hooplah]

Yeah, let's all gang pile a forum poster who's trying to bring something constructive, technical, thought provoking and kind of interesting to our normally unproductive forum, amiright? Instead, lets just drag him and the thread down to the normal levels of poo flinging partisanship that we see on a daily basis!

My take-away from this thread: why wouldn't other players want to blow you guys up whenever or wherever they could find you? I know that I sure do. And, a little dose of irony: it's exactly this attitude so often displayed on the forum that got me into that in the first place.

LOL. Touched a nerve did I? Hey, it's all talk anyway. Besides it will be an honor when you find me on Open mode (yes, I'm there a lot) and blow me away! I'll take a snapshot and add it to my picture collection...if you can. I'm getting pretty good with my little Chieftain. Might even survive. Enjoy the game.

 

[jasonbarron]

Couldn't disagree more. You're talking about a game. And instead of embracing Open mode where you can go neck and neck with the best human players there are, better than any NPC, you suggest increasing NPC difficulty to further alienate the average Joe wanting to have a bit of space fun? Rubbish.

What's "rubbish" is you reading the first sentence and failing to see my elaboration. Especially the part about players being able to solo wing assassination missions in their Vipers, which is kind of a clincher.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The compromise would be taking away the ability to effect player factions and powerplay from solo. They can still manipulate the BGS with NPC's all they would like elsewhere. The galaxy is huge. Go do it somewhere else that doesnt have a player faction in it.

Not really rocket science here folks.

So you're saying that Player Factions HAVE to operate in Open?
There are plenty that play in private groups and probably some that play in Solo.

Player Faction does not equal PvP - as long as you fail to understand that simple fact, you're never going to get anywhere with ED.

 

[cmdr kruzer70]

One thing that is abundantly clear to me is that the game is nowhere near being a challenge in terms of NPC difficulty, and that it would be a lot more fun if the dial were turned up.

Lucky for you, you can get the challenge you crave by simply gearing down your own ship. Why the need to screw with other player's game? I play in Colonia with a locally built ship, that means no Engineers and no A-rated modules above Class 3. As it stands CZs are a huge challenge and Winged Assassination missions are flat out impossible.

Basically the idea that there are players out there that are farming or not playing the game to your ideal is so galling that you must propose ways to force them to meet your standards.

 

[Stigbob]

You do realize PVP hub, GCI and so forth all exist because of these issues alone right? Instead of powerplay like FDEV intended? That was supposed to be the outlet for PVP. BGS player faction is exactly the same as powerplay. Except crime rules apply. No difference in the end. Its player groups effecting other player groups.

The PVP hub exists for the same reason players factions exist, like minded people get together to enjoy the game. PVP was never a compulsory part of anything.

EDIT: Oh and combat logging. Even if it is 15 seconds. Its still a buncha nonsense.

So what ?, I don't do either. I was writing player guides on high waking under fire four years ago, an actual fix for clogging would just mean players escape that way. It still wouldn't mean compulsory PVP.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

So you're saying that Player Factions HAVE to operate in Open?
There are plenty that play in private groups and probably some that play in Solo.

Player Faction does not equal PvP - as long as you fail to understand that simple fact, you're never going to get anywhere with ED.

As long as players show up on bounty boards in our systems killing cops. Yeah we should be able to claim those bounties. No one is going to willingly put themselves out there. Cmon dude.

Its not about a choice at this point.

 

[Old Duck]

So you're saying that Player Factions HAVE to operate in Open?
There are plenty that play in private groups and probably some that play in Solo.

Player Faction does not equal PvP - as long as you fail to understand that simple fact, you're never going to get anywhere with ED.

And all player factions & Power Play(ers) need to play on PC. It's not fair that XBox and PS4 players can influence BGS and we can't do anything about it. Oh wait, I'm a PS4 player [big grin]

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

So you're saying that Player Factions HAVE to operate in Open?
There are plenty that play in private groups and probably some that play in Solo.

Player Faction does not equal PvP - as long as you fail to understand that simple fact, you're never going to get anywhere with ED.

Thats right. And watch me.

As long as players are intentionally attacking other player faction through the BGS. Thats the moment PVE becomes PVP. Even if it is PVE. You should have the right to defend against them like any other game with PVP to protect your NPC's just like towers in Guildwars 2 with bosses inside of them. Just like minion waves in League. All PVE elements, but the ability to stop the aggressor.

The different types of game dont matter here. Its the context on how PVP is applied here.

Too bad if people dont like it. Shouldnt be attacking another player faction if you dont want to PVP in the first place.

As my mom said, tough y.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The compromise would be taking away the ability to effect player factions and powerplay from solo. They can still manipulate the BGS with NPC's all they would like elsewhere. The galaxy is huge. Go do it somewhere else that doesnt have a player faction in it.

Not really rocket science here folks.

That's not a compromise - that's a blatant land grab.

It also completely disregards those player factions requested by player groups that don't prefer the optional play-style that affecting their Faction would be gated behind.

Also:

Is there planned to be any defense against the possibility that player created minor factions could be destroyed with no possible recourse through Private Groups or Solo play?

From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.

Michael

 

[Globusdiablo]

What's "rubbish" is you reading the first sentence and failing to see my elaboration. Especially the part about players being able to solo wing assassination missions in their Vipers, which is kind of a clincher.

Give it up bub. If players want/are able to solo wing assassination missions in their Vipers, then let them. Let me repeat myself: it's a game. You can have all the challenge you could ever need in Open Mode, but for some reason you insist on imposing your personal difficulty preference on an entire game? So if FD made NPCs too hard for you, then what? Omnipotence much?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And all player factions & Power Play(ers) need to play on PC. It's not fair that XBox and PS4 players can influence BGS and we can't do anything about it. Oh wait, I'm a PS4 player [big grin]

Most player faction have recruitments across all consoles. Make the game the same across the board would mean our guys could defend just the same on PC.

This is hardly an excuse.

And for the next bit cause I know it coming. Go buy some game time like everyone else that wants to be a part of multiplayer games on consoles.

That's not a compromise - that's a blatant land grab.

It also completely disregards those player factions requested by player groups that don't prefer the optional play-style that affecting their Faction would be gated behind.

Also:

2015.

Were in 2018 now boys. Lots of things change with games. Even things they say wont. Elites not special in this regard. No matter who says it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

As long as players show up on bounty boards in our systems killing cops. Yeah we should be able to claim those bounties. No one is going to willingly put themselves out there. Cmon dude.

Its not about a choice at this point.

If they're playing on XBox of PS4 then you can't claim the bounties either.
If they put you on their block list then, again, you're not going to be able to claim the bounties.

Stop thinking that Open/Solo is the problem and go kill cops in their systems - it's a much better way to manipulate the BGS than PvP anyway.

 

[cmdr kruzer70]

Because that's how the game was advertised and sold.

Lets turn your argument on it's head why should a player who researched his purchase have content taken away because another player who didn't read up on the game at all is now cross about what he bought.

Your whole idea that FD 'sold' a game based on certain features is complete fiction. There are a whole crap ton of features that were 'sold' to backers that ended up not being included in the game. Your idea that a general statement in their marketing material about players being able to effect the game translates to an explicit promise that "Solo player's can manipulate the BGS" is a pretty big stretch. The idea that players determine the universe has pretty much being reneged on since the get go.

 

[Robert Maynard]

2015.

Were in 2018 now boys. Lots of things change with games. Even things they say wont. Elites not special in this regard. No matter who says it.

We'll see....

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

We'll see....

indeedly

 

[Riverside]

I think you missed my edit - limiting any feature explicitly to any mode is a ridiculously stupid idea IMO.

I did miss your edit, thanks for pointing it out. There was a time when I would agree with you, but as someone else highlighted earlier in the thread, we have missions now that encourage farming NPCs - FDev didn't design the game that way (imo) but it's how many players approach it, so they adapted & added content in-line with how the game is actually played.

I don't see this as any different. There is a demand for a solution, it can be added. If there were sufficient demand for a solo only layer I'd support them too. Power Play is effectively a different game, played in parallel with the existing one, sharing assets & in a shared environment. The Alien content is another layer, gated by distance. Wings are multi-player only content too, so while I understand where you are coming from I don't think FDev are so firm in their opinions on this as you.

Yes the BGS will remain available for all, but there is no reason why a new layer couldn't be Open specific, and PvP specific.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

If they're playing on XBox of PS4 then you can't claim the bounties either.
If they put you on their block list then, again, you're not going to be able to claim the bounties.

Stop thinking that Open/Solo is the problem and go kill cops in their systems - it's a much better way to manipulate the BGS than PvP anyway.

Nope but someone else can thats a part of our group.

 

[jasonbarron]

Give it up bub. If players want/are able to solo wing assassination missions in their Vipers, then let them. Let me repeat myself: it's a game. You can have all the challenge you could ever need in Open Mode, but for some reason you insist on imposing your personal difficulty preference on an entire game? So if FD made NPCs too hard for you, then what? Omnipotence much?

CMDR Frentox has tapped out, and now the attention of the horde slowly but inexorably shifts to focus on lone CMDR Jason Barron...