PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

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I like the honest ones, TrueSilver, Morbad, Besieger, Sole Hunter etc. I plan my approach to any loadout on the assumption they will be in the next system I jump to. I can FA-off, I can use fixed weapons (but struggle to do both, I use a Hotas), but the first step to winning is survival, and I can do that. 99% of the time it is enough.

There are some real jerks out there, but I either haven't met them in-game or haven't noticed if I have :)

Truesilver has some really great guides when I first got into PVP. I respect the hell out of that guy. He really does a service to the community.
 
Perfect example of the complete inability to live outside your reality distortion field. This https://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk...=.EweloBhBGA2EAsICmBDA5gG2SGF9A===&bn=Scatter is not an early game ship by any stretch of the imagination. Also, let's see him attempt that mission 100 times and see what his completion % is. I'm guessing we didn't get to see any videos of failed attempts.

Hate to be that guy, but with a bit of research before you start playing - you can be in an Anaconda in a few hours of starting the game.
If you're willing to use cheap tricks (board flipping) and credit exploits - aka "gold rush" tactics.

So a Mk 4 Viper is easy to get and fit.

But it shows exactly what type of players you are dealing with when an enigneered Viper 4 is a "starter ship".
But then again, doing that - all ships are starter ships :p
 
This is what the thread is (intended to be) about. Can you expand in this? earlier in the thread it was broadly agreed that the difference was between combat & non-combat ships, a split I'm not entirely sure is the case.

Can you expand on how & why your loadouts are different, and what you think would allow you to use one loadout for all combat?

NPC's have crazy things like gimballed rail guns with 100% accuracy, so you need to run higher base shield strength to tank the hits. Also because NPC's are a joke and you need to farm them, you use energy weapons so you don't have to go back and reload, at the cost of lower damage.

PvE = Survivability over Damage

In PvP, because the combat and flying is more dynamic and unpredictable, you're best to run bi-weaves because players won't always land rails 100% of the time. You can afford to run PA's / Rails / Frags / Multis (i.e. ammo capped weapons) because the engagement is only 1 flight. You do way more damage.

People can say "But the DPS is higher on xx weapon" but PvP is pure burst damage. You nearly always want to run weapons that do the highest amount of damage with as little amount of time on target as possible (Hence the PA / Rail meta we currently have when passing another ship in jousts)

You then have the next level of module targeting. 99.9% of the time you target a NPC's Power Plant. In PvP you actually have to think about what you want to target, as most PvP ships will have engineered armour, so modules will actually go before the base hull does. Do you hit the PP and hope that they haven't set power priorities so they're crippled? Do you go for their weapons to lower their DPS?

I generally run x4 loadouts:

For Pure PvE, I run a Clipper with BiWeaves Thermal Resist (Because the shield on the clipper is bad anyway and most NPC's have energy weapons so combined with resist shield boosters, mitigating 70% of energy weapon damage is possible even with an overall strength of like 400 or whatever it is) with x4 long range pulse lasers all scrambled spectrum (To tag the target asap to get credit for the kill + no damage falloff). The large slots are Turrets, and I absolutely hate turrets but this is for PvE (Scramble Spectrum doesn't affect NPC's, so I do need to change this to something else). Can boost to 610 and has 2.2k HP.

For Pure PvP, I run a FAS with BiWeaves, x2 APA's Focused (For the faster shot speed and lower heat generation) and x2 Imp Hammers Super Pen. I think the hull is the one that lower thermal weapons but I can't remember. I can run the Clipper above in PvP but it's not really competitive. It does average in 'Impromptu PvP'

For Solo Thargoid Interceptors I run a FDL with x3 Guardian Rail things and x2 Flak Cannons, All Hull reinforcements and BiWeaves with enhanced broken regeneration rate. Also run Clean Drives because of the heat that Guardian Weapons make. (I would run G5 DD's otherwise)

For Maximum immersion mode in CG's I run an Anaconda with Prismatics, Shield Boosters all boost augmented (some thermal enhanced) and x4 limpet controllers to collect all the materials I need because you can't buy them.

This is all from memory and could be wrong. G5 DD's are the only option for Drives. I'm by no means an amazing PvP player, it's hard getting practice in because every time you lose, that's a good 6 million in rebuy per match and I'm down to like 100m
 
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Truesilver has some really great guides when I first got into PVP. I respect the hell out of that guy. He really does a service to the community.

He does. I don't use any external guides, I just bought the game on release & have played for 4,500hrs, the vast majority of that in open, just PvEing & learning as I go.

While guides are very helpful they also make the game too easy, so I prefer to work it out for myself. Without the guidance of those players that discovered how it all worked just how competitive would the majority of players be? I'm not complaining, each to their own but following guides is synonymous with getting bored with the game & frustration that it's too easy. Of course it's easy if you don't have to work it out for yourself ;)
 
Very nice. Which CG and faction is this?
Will it be a trade CG? With all your members flying in Open of course.

Nah ill be in solo and private because thats where the META is when objectives are in play.

We havnt got the full details yet about it. So no clue what we are doing yet. Excited though.
 
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It's not a case of me "distorting reality" my friend, but rather one of you being oblivious to it.

A ship that's obtainable to the average player within a few hours from starting out in Erevate
What a perfect example of reality distortion right there.

LOL, a few hours? To the average player? Suuure. Want to place a bet on that?

That aside, the OP's prescription is still unworkable. The across the board buff to NPCs to the point they could contend with ships like his as he is advocating for would kill the game for most beginning to mid level players and force the rest of the community to have to play like him, which I'm not interested in or, in the case of my Colonia based commander able to.

At the end of the day the root of the problem lies with the fact that there is a low skill cap in Elite Dangerous combat. It just doesn't take very long for a dedicated player to reach that skill cap. At that point, PvP duels basically become glorified games of rock/paper/scissors. Otherwise the PvP community would have all the challenge they need just with PvP duels and events within their own community. Instead you are forced to resort to moaning and whining to inflict changes to the game that will negatively effect the majority of the community and will ultimately not satisfy you.
 
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This is all from memory and could be wrong.

Let's leave the Thargoids to one side, I'm not sure it's helpful to include these because they clearly are designed to require a specialised loadout, whereas PvP & normal PvE idealy shouldn't.

If you had to use just one loadout for both PvP and PvE how would you build your ship? What would it's deficiencies be, what would you prioritise? We are looking for ways (that may not be in the game) to allow you to use one set of weapons & defence for all, while allowing you room for your limpets & cargo or whatever other PvE concession you need at the time.
 
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Let's leave the Thargoids to one side, I'm not sure it's helpful to include these because they clearly are designed to require a specialised loadout, whereas PvP & normal PvE idealy shouldn't.

If you had to use just one loadout for both PvP and PvE how would you build your ship? What would it's deficiencies be, what would you prioritise? We are looking for ways (that may not be in the game) to allow you to use one set of weapons & defence for all, while allowing you room for your limpets & cargo or whatever other PvE concession you need at the time.

If it was for all, I would run the PvP Loadout but use a good FSD instead of the smallest D rated lightweight one, and drop one HRP for a Fuel Scoop.
 
If it was for all, I would run the PvP Loadout but use a good FSD instead of the smallest D rated lightweight one, and drop one HRP for a Fuel Scoop.

How much of a compromise would that be? Seem like you could do that anyway (I have a full size tank, FSD & big scoop in my main ship). This seems to be more a change of play style than a one size fits all loadout.
 
If it was for all, I would run the PvP Loadout but use a good FSD instead of the smallest D rated lightweight one, and drop one HRP for a Fuel Scoop.

I spend most of time doing combat related activites in my FDL and that's exactly what I do. Commanders, Conflict Zones, Bounty Hunting, Local Patrol, Data Running - you name it and you'll see me in a ship ready to take on anyone. Fuel Scoop goes in for when I'm traveling or player bounty hunting. I'll ship the second Shield Cell Bank around if I'm going to be hanging out a while. Rarely ship the FDL anymore.

Since I like builds that use ammo I try to keep a healthy stock of synthesis available. If I don't have any I'll just reload at the station. Don't mind the trips back from a Conflict Zone or Resource Extraction Site (better for BgS influence and keeping you topped up in case of the unexpected! Plus potty and drinky breaks).

Flying around I scan every ship I can to keep data stocks up. If I run into a tasty looking Signal Source, well, that's what I've got a Cargo Scoop and maneuvering thrusters for, right? If I want to go prospecting I've got a DBX kitted just for that. Stay close to home for that sort of thing nowadays anyway.

OP's words against dividing combat into PvP and PvE really meshes with my own outlook, as I hope you can see.
 
butts in

BRING IT ON, SUCKERS.

Ok so that's your PVE load out? Fair enough. So you're doing BGS work and you've just turned in your Bounties at the local platform you check the local message board for your faction and see a juicy mission offering big influence and 4 million credits to haul 120 tonnes of Gold over to a station 2 sectors over. How does your PVE ship handle that? (remind me again, what is the cargo capacity of the FDL?).
 
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Ok so that's your PVE load out? Fair enough. So you're doing BGS work and you've just turned in your Combat Bonds at the local platform you check the local message board for your faction and see a juicy mission offering big influence and 4 million credits to haul 120 tonnes of Gold over to a station 2 sectors over. How does your PVE ship handle that? (remind me again, what is the cargo capacity of the FDL?).

If I'm turning in combat bonds that means my chosen faction is at war. Missions don't help their BgS influence during a state of war, so, I would ignore it.

My cargo capacity is zero tons, by the way.
 
If I'm turning in combat bonds that means my chosen faction is at war. Missions don't help their BgS influence during a state of war, so, I would ignore it.

My cargo capacity is zero tons, by the way.

Would I be right to assume any missions you do would be for combat rather than travel or cargo? ie your solution to carrying cargo in open is to not do it (or do it in solo)?
 
If I'm turning in combat bonds that means my chosen faction is at war. Missions don't help their BgS influence during a state of war, so, I would ignore it.

My cargo capacity is zero tons, by the way.

Yeah I saw that slip up and left it thinking you would get my point. I gave you too much credit. Do you want me to go back and edit my post? Fair enough, now what?
 
How much of a compromise would that be? Seem like you could do that anyway (I have a full size tank, FSD & big scoop in my main ship). This seems to be more a change of play style than a one size fits all loadout.

I did forget to mention that I run the smallest fuel tank on my PvP loadouts for the weight reduction. The compromise is that you're forced to reload and rearm however that can be a blessing where you hand in vouchers, plus the odd heat damage from rails and PA's.

That's for the current environment correct? How confident would you be in a CZ filled with NPCs in Apex level ships?

I've never come up against an Apex ship, I don't know what that is. Guessing that's the Advance police thing? I would run the PvP loadout against this Apex ship thing if it's only 1 per instance or what not.

I like PvP but I don't gank people so haven't witnessed that, shock horror I know.
 
Yeah I saw that slip up and left it thinking you would get my point. I gave you too much credit. Do you want me to go back and edit my post? Fair enough, now what?

Or I happen to know my stuff and just totally crushed you. I'm choosing to believe that.

Not going back to read your edit because you're obviously not serious about the discussion and just looking to score rhetorical points. Cheers! :D
 
Would I be right to assume any missions you do would be for combat rather than travel or cargo? ie your solution to carrying cargo in open is to not do it (or do it in solo)?

In regards to BgS, I assume?

No, in my FDL I'll often run Data missions and choose the influence increase. This has the benefit of helping the BgS with lots of transactions and staying combat ready in case I encounter an enemy. Sometimes I'll slap in a 16 ton cargo rack and run fetch missions. In case you were not aware, in regards to BgS numbers, the number of transactions you complete is way more important than the rewards you earn.

But, I also work in a team, so if cargo missions are plentiful our traders will run those and our combat pilots will fly cover. Beyond that, during our most recent BgS war our combat pilots spent a lot of time attacking enemy Commanders while the rest manned the home front (or did other activities!). Beat the players instead of the BgS, you see.
 
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