Modes These arguments are tedious.

[Mohrgan]

Has this argument gone on for 5 years?

Yes.

Obvious problem. Obvious Fix.

Not a problem for you. Because you know the advantages you are taking.

Frontier acknowledged risk and reward within the modes in that powerplay thread.

Just because they didnt do anything then. Doesnt mean that what he said as far as risk and reward per mode is untrue.

He is well aware of the Balancing issues just the same as we are.

Beyond is about fixing the core elements of the game.

Now is their chance to do it. We all seen what happened to powerplay. I dont think they will make the same mistake with squadrons, PMF's, and their chance to fix powerplay ontop of it.

The game we had when you first started those conversations. Has evolved and changed since then. And balancing will come with it. Its really not hard to see it Mohrgan.

The only reason im staying here to fight for it. Is because if and when they ever do read these threads, or announce something like they did with Powerplay back in 2016.

Im gonna make sure im there with my voice heard. And they actually follow through this time.

Instead of watching everyone throw a fit about it after he announced the imbalances. The imbalances you KNOW you are taking advantage of.

It has gone on for 5 years for a couple of reasons. Mostly because new players come to the same wrongheaded conclusion that open has to be dominant. A new player starts their journey and thinks they have hit upon something no one has ever said before. And, off they go to Reditt or the Forums. They find some support, from the existing open-only crowd, and think they have found a ground swell. Another reason comes from some old salts feeling like a slightly new or more polished argument has arisen, and get back into the fray. Hoping to get their preferred mode filled up with targets. Then, I'm sure there are those that just hope to see the players 'hiding' in Solo/PG get some punishment for not seeing things their way.

What ever the motive, there are strong arguments that hold them back. Those arguments resurface with each new attempt in this incursion. My arguments have hardly changed over the years. Why? Because the hold up. In five years FD has not changes the mode's relationship to content, because they see no argument that compels them to do so. Because, each and every Commander has the opportunity, and power to control their own game play. Having each Commander equally able to choose, is far better than having some debatable parity between modes.

 

[Jockey79]

Even Braben does.

You know what DBOBE knows, he knows what it is like to have to put up with gankers ruining a good nights game play.

In an interview he owned up to not playing open mode anymore, because of folks like you and Algo wouldn't leave him in peace to just potter about with the community.

That's right, your own kin harassed the CEO and major share holder so much, he had to leave open mode to enjoy his own game.

Well done. You lot put the nail in the PvP coffin yourselves.

If only I kept the link to that interview..... Google here I come.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It has gone on for 5 years for a couple of reasons. Mostly because new players come to the same wrongheaded conclusion that open has to be dominant. A new player starts their journey and thinks they have hit upon something no one has ever said before. And, off they go to Reditt or the Forums. They find some support, from the existing open-only crowd, and think they have found a ground swell. Another reason comes from some old salts feeling like a slightly new or more polished argument has arisen, and get back into the fray. Hoping to get their preferred mode filled up with targets. Then, I'm sure there are those that just hope to see the players 'hiding' in Solo/PG get some punishment for not seeing things their way.

What ever the motive, there are strong arguments that hold them back. Those arguments resurface with each new attempt in this incursion. My arguments have hardly changed over the years. Why? Because the hold up. In five years FD has not changes the mode's relationship to content, because they see no argument that compels them to do so. Because, each and every Commander has the opportunity, and power to control their own game play. Having each Commander equally able to choose, is far better than having some debatable parity between modes.

Its not about targets. Its way more than that.

Its about the community, toxicity, gameplay, modules and more.

There is major parts of this game missing because of the META you know exists. When that happens. They see it. Just the same as I do. And sooner or later will do something about it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You know what DBOBE knows, he knows what it is like to have to put up with gankers ruining a good nights game play.

In an interview he owned up to not playing open mode anymore, because of folks like you and Algo wouldn't leave him in peace to just potter about with the community.

That's right, your own kin harassed the CEO and major share holder so much, he had to leave open mode to enjoy his own game.

Well done. You lot put the nail in the PvP coffin yourselves.

If only I kept the link to that interview..... Google here I come.

Ive seen the interview.

I know what hes talking about.

He knows what hes talking about.

He made a game that only allowed griefing in it. There is another video of him talking about the social engineering of the game. And watching people react to certain things in the game. He found it "interesting".

League of Legends held social experiments in the same way, and DATA was sold to universities over it. I wouldn't be surprised if thats happened here as well.

It stops being "interesting" when people get Doxxed, Threatened to be Swatted and so forth.

 

[Jockey79]

Ive seen the interview.

I shall cease on the Google search then.

He made a game that only allowed griefing in it. There is another video of him talking about the social engineering of the game. And watching people react to certain things in the game. He found it "interesting".

Well, to be honest I think Frontier over looked a lot of things when it comes to games with an "MMO" tag.
DBOBE saying that players will police players was a great idea (as I've told you before, that was one of my original goals), but they still have not provided tools to do it.

The Bounty Boards should only show people who are Online and in the same Mode. Because currently you can end up looking for someone Offline or in Solo.
More tools for tracking / locating "criminals" in game. (Perhaps scan the Nav like we do for missions to see if that person is in that system?)

League of Legends held social experiments in the same way, and DATA was sold to universities over it. I wouldn't be surprised if thats happened here as well.

Well, Facebook also do it. People don't seem to mind about these companies collecting all this data about them.
It's as if everyone actually wants Orwells 1984 to happen. Not far from it now, after all - I come here for my 2 minutes hate everyday

(for those who have not read 1984, "2 minutes hate" is a reference to something in the book - I don't actually hate anyone)

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I shall cease on the Google search then.



Well, to be honest I think Frontier over looked a lot of things when it comes to games with an "MMO" tag.
DBOBE saying that players will police players was a great idea (as I've told you before, that was one of my original goals), but they still have not provided tools to do it.

The Bounty Boards should only show people who are Online and in the same Mode. Because currently you can end up looking for someone Offline or in Solo.
More tools for tracking / locating "criminals" in game. (Perhaps scan the Nav like we do for missions to see if that person is in that system?)




Well, Facebook also do it. People don't seem to mind about these companies collecting all this data about them.
It's as if everyone actually wants Orwells 1984 to happen. Not far from it now, after all - I come here for my 2 minutes "hate" everyday

(for those who have not read 1984, "2 minutes hate" is a reference to something in the book - I don't actually hate anyone)

I agree with everything you said here. The hell is going on?

We can fight for this stuff together you know? Theres still a chance to get what we want out of this game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I really dont care who said what.

Complete agreement.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

There's a naughty part of me wishing you get what you wish.

Yay! It's all Open Only now .... uhm ... now what?
We defend our system.
Cool!
....
....
No one's attacking our system.
Yeah, all those solo/pg cowards won't come in open so they given up.
Pillocks
Damn straight, pillocks.
....
....
So ... who is doing the influence changing now?
....
....
Maybe we should ...
Hell naw, I aint going to fill boring PvE buckets. Let those PvE CMDRs take care of that.
But they won't.
Nah, cowards, the lot of them.
At least we're not losing influence
Exactly! Great isn't it?
We're not gaining any either.
Yeah .... cowards!
Pillocks!
Damn straight

*spaceweed*

Will give you an example from the game:

I was part of a PF stationed in Delkar, one of the best mining systems.
People would go there to mine. If they would need to be in open they would be stopped and robbed or asked for "donation" as a portion of their mining income.
You sell your mining at our station affecting our BGS, pay up or die.

Orrere system belongs to the Code. It has a ruined anaconda on one of its planets that spits out rare rocks. Same story as Delkar, want to go there? Pay up! Oh wait I will just jump to SOLO.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I agree with everything you said here. The hell is going on?

We can fight for this stuff together you know? Theres still a chance to get what we want out of this game.

Same. I like the bounty hunting idea, also criminals should be locked in OPEN to be availble for people to hunt them. Kills the whole idea if they jump to SOLO. Same thing with PP criminals, you mowed Hudsons minions? Stay in OPEN.

 

[Mohrgan]

Will give you an example from the game:

I was part of a PF stationed in Delkar, one of the best mining systems.
People would go there to mine. If they would need to be in open they would be stopped and robbed or asked for "donation" as a portion of their mining income.
You sell your mining at our station affecting our BGS, pay up or die.

Orrere system belongs to the Code. It has a ruined anaconda on one of its planets that spits out rare rocks. Same story as Delkar, want to go there? Pay up! Oh wait I will just jump to SOLO.

Yeah? What does that prove? Instead you and those guys in Orrere can just mine and farm for the benefit of your faction, completely outweighing the benefit/loss, in BGS terms, uncured through piracy. You can only expect to game along side others that want to have the same experience as you.

P.S. No Player Group owns a system, or a Faction. They can only associate with a faction.

 

[Jockey79]

I agree with everything you said here. The hell is going on?

We can fight for this stuff together you know? Theres still a chance to get what we want out of this game.

This is where we diverge.

Apart from you being PvP focused and me being PvE focused;
I've accepted the game for what it is, and you refuse to accept it.

I'm happy to support adding content for PvP.
But you keep on about locking current content - which I'm not happy with.
This is where we lock horns so much.

The game could do with a proper PvP overhaul imo.
With real tools to find a fight and a reason to look for one.

Same. I like the bounty hunting idea, also criminals should be locked in OPEN to be availble for people to hunt them. Kills the whole idea if they jump to SOLO. Same thing with PP criminals, you mowed Hudsons minions? Stay in OPEN.

I suggested locking criminals to open before and got shouted down by PvP'ers.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This is where we diverge.

Apart from you being PvP focused and me being PvE focused;
I've accepted the game for what it is, and you refuse to accept it.

I'm happy to support adding content for PvP.
But you keep on about locking current content - which I'm not happy with.
This is where we lock horns so much.

The game could do with a proper PvP overhaul imo.
With real tools to find a fight and a reason to look for one.

Agreed. My only issue is a PVEer is able to flip a persons system. Just doesnt seem right to me.

Those are objectives and thats what (direct PVP) Is for in any game PVP is allowed in.

The BGS(PMFS/Powerplay) is attached to people. Not NPC's, so a PVEer should never be able to effect another player. They should only get to push and pull against the Environment. Not the people.

However, Locking people to open when they are a criminal, is a part of flipping a players system in the BGS when you kill cops and other rando's to drive down percentages. This would allow me to properly defend the system as a PVPer through the BGS.

Its all Ive been asking for.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I suggested locking criminals to open before and got shouted down by PvP'ers.

Totally for this BTW.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Same. I like the bounty hunting idea, also criminals should be locked in OPEN to be availble for people to hunt them. Kills the whole idea if they jump to SOLO. Same thing with PP criminals, you mowed Hudsons minions? Stay in OPEN.

Yep agreed 100%.

 

[Mohrgan]

Agreed. My only issue is a PVEer is able to flip a persons system. Just doesnt seem right to me.

Those are objectives and thats what (direct PVP) Is for in any game PVP is allowed in.

The BGS(PMFS/Powerplay) is attached to people. Not NPC's, so a PVEer should never be able to effect another player. They should only get to push and pull against the Environment. Not the people.

People are attached to Factions and Powers, not the other way around. I am attached to a non-Player Group Associated Faction, just as anyone would be to a PGAF. All Factions and/or Powers operates entirely independently of the players associated with it. We can only apply influence for them to follow the rules and algorithms they were programed with.

 

[Gully Foyle]

No matter how many times someone suggests something or starts a discussion it seems to always end up the same way going over the same subjects. Well how about something new.

Certain PVPcentric players want to hamstring Solo and Private groups, making their contributions to the BGS to either not count or 25% of what counts from Open. So lets say the PVE community were to agree to this and accept 25%, it leaves nothing for them really and nothing for PVPers in regards to affecting the BGS, PP, and such.. all it does is benefit playing in Open and insidiously giving certain people more targets as people come to Open to try and effect the BGS.

Well lets have a compromise. IF, and I do mean IF, the PVE community were to agree to this nuke of our ability in Solo and Private groups then concessions need to be made to us as well.

In Open:

1. Flag system - inability to PVP someone not flagged for PVP. This includes ramming, no damage to the rammed ship, yet if you ram the ship over a certain speed... the station destroys you... so better stay below that speed limit.

2. PVP actually effects the BGS and PP. This is something some PVPers have asked for... yet that effect is the same as the new Solo and Player Group effects.. 25%.

So there... you possibly may get more people in Open, you get PVP with those who want to, and finally you can effect the BGS by PVP.

In Private Groups and Solo to counter the lesser effect and keep things fair maybe better profits? I would love to hear other ideas.

This is not a declaration of "We must do this"... this is a discussion.. some people want PGs and Solo to be nerfed or locked and claim they are bad (which is malarkey) so this is just thoughts on IF their idea of making PG's and Solo less effective to the BGS was taken seriously, then how would we alter Open to keep things balanced and fair.

It will not be taken seriously.
However all rewards in Open should buff 10%

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

People are attached to Factions and Powers, not the other way around. I am attached to a non-Player Group Associated Faction, just as anyone would be to a PGAF. All Factions and/or Powers operates entirely independently of the players associated with it. We can only apply influence for them to follow the rules and algorithms they were programed with.

I know mohrgan.

Anyone can claim a faction to call their home. However some people have personally named the faction, grew their community and have expanded. Its now MORE than what you are making it out to be here. Some of us even have Assets in the game, we should be getting ours in the next patch.

 

[Mohrgan]

I know mohrgan.

Anyone can claim a faction to call their home. However some people have personally named the faction, grew their community and have expanded. Its now MORE than what you are making it out to be here. Some of us even have Assets in the game, we should be getting ours in the next patch.

No, it's not, in terms of the game's mechanics. You have attached yourself to that Factions, in the exact same way I have to mine. I just don't need to have a specific name on the one I associate with. I defend this position because it is part and parcel to the idea that points of view differ in this game, and one POV shouldn't be allowed to over shadow another. I wish you and your PGAF all of the best, but your arguments have to be countered in the over all.

 

[Curvemn17]

There's a naughty part of me wishing you get what you wish.

Yay! It's all Open Only now .... uhm ... now what?
We defend our system.
Cool!
....
....
No one's attacking our system.
Yeah, all those solo/pg cowards won't come in open so they given up.
Pillocks
Damn straight, pillocks.
....
....
So ... who is doing the influence changing now?
....
....
Maybe we should ...
Hell naw, I aint going to fill boring PvE buckets. Let those PvE CMDRs take care of that.
But they won't.
Nah, cowards, the lot of them.
At least we're not losing influence
Exactly! Great isn't it?
We're not gaining any either.
Yeah .... cowards!
Pillocks!
Damn straight

*spaceweed*

Except you assume that I am a PvP or anyone for that matter in this scenario. I don’t actively engage in PvP but I won’t run from it either. I already actively engage in these BGS pve activities with a PMF and with PP. However, I would like to actively oppose those that oppose me, not suffer at their hands as they play the game locked away in their dungeons. You say play the game the way I want, well that’s walling off content from me by doing that.

If that were the case, all of the suggestions to encourage PvP wouldn't be dismissed. The single initiative here is to limit access to core game mechanics to open. That doesn't improve or make PvP more meaningful, it only serves to make it more plentiful. It has been shown time and time again that influence on the BGS can be gained equally in any of the modes, by design. Even when confronted with the fact that each end every Commander has equal access to all mechanics we end up with some notion that open, and PvP must be the deciding factor in how that influence is applied. BGS factions and PP Powers are not neutered in open, all of the mechanics are available right there.

Where does that come from? Every BGS/PP action has a counter. All of these actions and counters are equally available in any of the three modes. That some players choose to pursue them in open, doen't compel others to do the same. This brings us back to where we use the developers words to emphasis this concept. This is where the Dev's saying that all modes are equal in their eyes becomes relevant.

It has gone on for 5 years for a couple of reasons. Mostly because new players come to the same wrongheaded conclusion that open has to be dominant. A new player starts their journey and thinks they have hit upon something no one has ever said before. And, off they go to Reditt or the Forums. They find some support, from the existing open-only crowd, and think they have found a ground swell. Another reason comes from some old salts feeling like a slightly new or more polished argument has arisen, and get back into the fray. Hoping to get their preferred mode filled up with targets. Then, I'm sure there are those that just hope to see the players 'hiding' in Solo/PG get some punishment for not seeing things their way.

What ever the motive, there are strong arguments that hold them back. Those arguments resurface with each new attempt in this incursion. My arguments have hardly changed over the years. Why? Because the hold up. In five years FD has not changes the mode's relationship to content, because they see no argument that compels them to do so. Because, each and every Commander has the opportunity, and power to control their own game play. Having each Commander equally able to choose, is far better than having some debatable parity between modes.

People are attached to Factions and Powers, not the other way around. I am attached to a non-Player Group Associated Faction, just as anyone would be to a PGAF. All Factions and/or Powers operates entirely independently of the players associated with it. We can only apply influence for them to follow the rules and algorithms they were programed with.

You keep arguing in this manner and we are fundamentally opposed on it which is fine, but your take of this holier than though attitude is what really holds this back. See your point about your arguments changing, in reality no ones arguments have changed in 5 years from what I gather. Why? Because no one is willing to have a legitimate argument and thus the wheel spins. For all of your bemoaning about equal actions in all the modes you refuse to even acknowledge that there are issues with the current set up. Being in a loose term an MMO and even if you want to debate those semantics that is a fact because there are multiple people in multiplayer mode online so I feel you can’t, the issue still lies in the world of the mmo is impacted by those that avoid the mmo.

At some point we all have to meet eachother half way. I don’t wish for any content to truly be walled away, personally I wish it were possible to have a separate BGS for solo and pg and then a shared BGS for open. In its current iteration; whether you wish to acknowledge it or not is your prerogative, there do exist big time issues with PP and BGS manipulation that is provided simply by those that operate in solo/PG. It’s not a question of PvP, but a question of how to fix that. Smaller powers are the mercy of large groups behind a wall. Content that is walled off as you so delicately like to say you don’t want to happen.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

No, it's not, in terms of the game's mechanics. You have attached yourself to that Factions, in the exact same way I have to mine. I just don't need to have a specific name on the one I associate with. I defend this position because it is part and parcel to the idea that points of view differ in this game, and one POV shouldn't be allowed to over shadow another. I wish you and your PGAF all of the best, but your arguments have to be countered in the over all.

Not really. There is a line of people waiting to get their player faction inserted into the game.

And another thing, you're forgetting about squadrons. Which is about to crush everything you said above even further.

The only thing youve countered my arguments with. Is empty knowledge for the sake of argument. Your "counters" hold no weight.