In system jumps.
- Thread starter LazyCalf
- Start date
This.
If you don't like something in this game don't do it. Asking for the bar to be lowered is just degrading the game.
So you bring forth something you can actually do right now as an example of something that would make supercruise less boring if you could do it?
There should be a Paypal-Account from Frontier. Everytime anybody says in this forum the bad phrase "if you dont like it, then dont do it", there should be an automatic transfer of 1 US Dollar to Frontier. Because it is an stupid phrase without any useful content! It is only used as an excuse, because people can't think of anything else that is an valuable argument.
I guess it would take only 1 week until FD could hire additional staff from that money! ;-)
I guess it would take only 1 week until FD could hire additional staff from that money! ;-)
And most of the threads that devolve into this start with the same half baked ideas that have been tossed around for years that amount to nothing more than "I don't like it, so change it!"
In-system jumps.
I thought up some specific ideas and possible game mechanics about the topic and also included some criticism from this thread. I'm refining it with people from my clan right now and will post this in the suggestion forum, when it is finished.
Huh?
The suggestion I was responding to was the one about checking modules and repairing ship while flying to a destination. It was suggested as something to be added to make the travel less down time. I was pointing out that one can actually do this in game right now.
The thing is, there seems to be this idea of all or nothing that really hit a high note during the ship transfer debates. People trying to claim that the delay would cause people to HAVE to sit there and do literally nothing but stare at a timer until their ship arrived. This is the same kind of patent nonsense hyperbole thrown out by people who are just grumpy that things aren't exactly the way they want it, and all else be damned.
And I can't tell you how many times I wish I had more time in supercruise between destinations, where I have actually stopped before landing because I am going over faction influence numbers in a region of systems, looking for likely systems for RES, CZ, mining locations. When I am out exploring on the rim, it is very time consuming in the Gal Map pouring over possible routes and calculating distance with jumponium, neutron boosts, and that 550,000 ls trip for a Class V gas giant gives me time to do in game things that I would otherwise have not be doing other things. It allows me to multi task.
I'm tempted to say that this thread is proof that it takes all sorts, and then just leave it at that - but the more I've read, the more I feel compelled to weigh in, because I just can't reconcile what people are saying with what I have read in the past!
For a start, I have always been in favour of nerfing the range of the Advanced Discovery Scanner - in my opinion, it cheapens exploration if we can simply 'press X to explore' - so I fully understand all of the die-hard explorers who are resisting the idea of micro-jumps, calling the idea a 'win button'. But... in the past, it has always been the die-hard explorers who were most vehemently opposed to nerfing the ADS's range, insisting that they need that 'win button' as it is vital to their career path, and telling me that if I don't like it, I can simply choose not to use it! So how can those same explorers object to micro-jumps, since it really is the exact same principle?!
I don't like the ADS, and so I don't use it - I prefer to use parallax to hunt down the various planets in a system, and I've had a lot of fun doing so. But I have been told multiple times by professional explorers that parallax is boring and impractical, and that I should not try to impose my preferred style of play onto others... so it's a bit rich for those same explorers to now insist that flying in a straight line for half an hour is not boring, and that players who don't want to do it should just go and do something else. I am resigned to the fact that, by not using an ADS, I am handicapping myself, and that other players who do use it will make more money more quickly than I will. So why can't explorers simply choose not to use micro-jumps, and resign themselves to the fact that players who do use it will have an advantage? It's exactly the same principle! Only this time, the boot is on the other foot...
And then I see other people advocating for micro-jumps, and lamenting the fact that stick-in-the-mud explorers care more about their IMMURSHUN than about good gameplay. The thing is, I value immersion very highly indeed (it's another reason why I dislike the Infinity Scanner), and yet I am very much in favour of micro-jumps - because it breaks my immersion to not be able to make them! After all, there are lots of star systems that are quite close together, especially near the galactic core, and I can use my Frameshift Drive to Hyperspace from one to the next... so, why shouldn't I be able to Hyperspace to an equally nearby star that happens to be in the same system that I am currently in? There's no logical reason for it, you just can't... so it feels artificial, not immersive at all.
Besides, in one sense, micro-jumps are already in the game. A few months ago I accepted two missions to go to the same star system - one to a station close to the primary, and another to a station much further away, at the secondary star. However, the mission to the secondary star had a fairly short time limit, so I did that one first; and after about 25 minutes in supercruise, I docked at the station and handed it in. I then faced another 25 minute journey back to the primary... but it occurred to me that I could get there faster by simply hyperspacing to another system, and then just hyperspacing straight back, so that's what I did. It took me 25 minutes to travel one way, and only 2 minutes to get back... by any reasonable standard, that's a micro-jump! But I had to go via a completely different system to do it, which is what makes the whole thing ridiculous... I mean if I can jump to the primary from another star system, why couldn't I jump to it from where I was?!
It just seems strange to me, to see people talking about immurshun as if it is holding the game back, which in reality immersion is one of the strongest arguments in favour of micro-jumps - because it would make the game more internally consistent, just like real life!
This is also why I disagree with the people suggesting that the Micro-jump Tech should be a seperate module... they argue that if it was, players who chose not to use it would have a tangible advantage over those who do, and it would represent yet another choice for us to make, adding to the tactical depth of the game. I can scarcely deny that more depth would definitely be welcome - but we already have a Frameshift Drive on our ships! We should already be able to make micro-jumps, and in one sense we already can! We should not have to purchase an additional module to do what we can sort-of do already...
For what it's worth, I want to see the opposite implemented as well - the ability to supercruise from one star system to the next, with no Hyperspace Loading Screen. That would be so cool, and the fact that virtually no one would ever do it is irrelevant... just knowing that it was possible would make my admiration for Elite go through the roof. You could argue that it would not be a worthwhile investment in terms of development time, and I suppose you would be right, but even so, I would still love to see it. (Also, supercruise uses far less fuel than a Hyperspace jump... so, if time was no object, it would actually be more efficient to supercruise from one system to the next! Alas, fuel efficiency is not as important as I wish it was... but, that's a topic for another time.)
At the start of the thread, which seems so long ago now, the OP suggested that we should only be able to make micro-jumps to stars, not planets, and that we could only jump 100k light-seconds at a time - so it would still be necessary to supercruise shorter distances, and the awe-inspiring sense of scale that Elite has could still be preserved. Personally, I have no objection to flying for 5 to 10 minutes, and when mapping systems with parallax I regularly travel for 15 minutes or more, watching tiny dots grow into huge multi-coloured gas giants that fill the screen. But once it starts getting closer to half an hour, I'm afraid that my patience does start to wear thin... and micro-jumps, even if they were only for stars that were at least 100k (200k? 300k?) light-seconds away, would be a very welcome addition to the game.
For a start, I have always been in favour of nerfing the range of the Advanced Discovery Scanner - in my opinion, it cheapens exploration if we can simply 'press X to explore' - so I fully understand all of the die-hard explorers who are resisting the idea of micro-jumps, calling the idea a 'win button'. But... in the past, it has always been the die-hard explorers who were most vehemently opposed to nerfing the ADS's range, insisting that they need that 'win button' as it is vital to their career path, and telling me that if I don't like it, I can simply choose not to use it! So how can those same explorers object to micro-jumps, since it really is the exact same principle?!
I don't like the ADS, and so I don't use it - I prefer to use parallax to hunt down the various planets in a system, and I've had a lot of fun doing so. But I have been told multiple times by professional explorers that parallax is boring and impractical, and that I should not try to impose my preferred style of play onto others... so it's a bit rich for those same explorers to now insist that flying in a straight line for half an hour is not boring, and that players who don't want to do it should just go and do something else. I am resigned to the fact that, by not using an ADS, I am handicapping myself, and that other players who do use it will make more money more quickly than I will. So why can't explorers simply choose not to use micro-jumps, and resign themselves to the fact that players who do use it will have an advantage? It's exactly the same principle! Only this time, the boot is on the other foot...
And then I see other people advocating for micro-jumps, and lamenting the fact that stick-in-the-mud explorers care more about their IMMURSHUN than about good gameplay. The thing is, I value immersion very highly indeed (it's another reason why I dislike the Infinity Scanner), and yet I am very much in favour of micro-jumps - because it breaks my immersion to not be able to make them! After all, there are lots of star systems that are quite close together, especially near the galactic core, and I can use my Frameshift Drive to Hyperspace from one to the next... so, why shouldn't I be able to Hyperspace to an equally nearby star that happens to be in the same system that I am currently in? There's no logical reason for it, you just can't... so it feels artificial, not immersive at all.
Besides, in one sense, micro-jumps are already in the game. A few months ago I accepted two missions to go to the same star system - one to a station close to the primary, and another to a station much further away, at the secondary star. However, the mission to the secondary star had a fairly short time limit, so I did that one first; and after about 25 minutes in supercruise, I docked at the station and handed it in. I then faced another 25 minute journey back to the primary... but it occurred to me that I could get there faster by simply hyperspacing to another system, and then just hyperspacing straight back, so that's what I did. It took me 25 minutes to travel one way, and only 2 minutes to get back... by any reasonable standard, that's a micro-jump! But I had to go via a completely different system to do it, which is what makes the whole thing ridiculous... I mean if I can jump to the primary from another star system, why couldn't I jump to it from where I was?!
It just seems strange to me, to see people talking about immurshun as if it is holding the game back, which in reality immersion is one of the strongest arguments in favour of micro-jumps - because it would make the game more internally consistent, just like real life!
This is also why I disagree with the people suggesting that the Micro-jump Tech should be a seperate module... they argue that if it was, players who chose not to use it would have a tangible advantage over those who do, and it would represent yet another choice for us to make, adding to the tactical depth of the game. I can scarcely deny that more depth would definitely be welcome - but we already have a Frameshift Drive on our ships! We should already be able to make micro-jumps, and in one sense we already can! We should not have to purchase an additional module to do what we can sort-of do already...
For what it's worth, I want to see the opposite implemented as well - the ability to supercruise from one star system to the next, with no Hyperspace Loading Screen. That would be so cool, and the fact that virtually no one would ever do it is irrelevant... just knowing that it was possible would make my admiration for Elite go through the roof. You could argue that it would not be a worthwhile investment in terms of development time, and I suppose you would be right, but even so, I would still love to see it. (Also, supercruise uses far less fuel than a Hyperspace jump... so, if time was no object, it would actually be more efficient to supercruise from one system to the next! Alas, fuel efficiency is not as important as I wish it was... but, that's a topic for another time.)
At the start of the thread, which seems so long ago now, the OP suggested that we should only be able to make micro-jumps to stars, not planets, and that we could only jump 100k light-seconds at a time - so it would still be necessary to supercruise shorter distances, and the awe-inspiring sense of scale that Elite has could still be preserved. Personally, I have no objection to flying for 5 to 10 minutes, and when mapping systems with parallax I regularly travel for 15 minutes or more, watching tiny dots grow into huge multi-coloured gas giants that fill the screen. But once it starts getting closer to half an hour, I'm afraid that my patience does start to wear thin... and micro-jumps, even if they were only for stars that were at least 100k (200k? 300k?) light-seconds away, would be a very welcome addition to the game.
Isn't that exactly what the OP is doing here?
Asking for something to be changed and then telling everybody who doesn't like the idea "if you don't like it, you don't have to use it".
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If I may...?
A fuel injector unit that, when activated, starts a mini game similar to the interdiction mini-game:
- The more you keep your ship centred on target, the faster you go, and the less damage that is incurred by your ship's FSD drive.
- If you go off-target, you slow down, and take more drive damage. If you go too far off-target you'd be kicked out of SuperCruise, just like losing the interdiction mini-game. Your drive would need to cool down, and your hull and FSD will have taken some damage.
- The mini-game could last up to a maximum length of time to represent your finite supply of injector fuel, thereby ensuring a maximum possible distance coverage (perhaps 200,000 Ls?).
- The injector module would carry a fixed supply of injections, and weighs your ship down (sacrificing overall jump range for SuperCruise speed). Larger injector modules carry more injections, but also weigh more.
- Injector fuel can be re-stocked at StarPorts (very expensive), or with a combination of high-grade materials (time consuming).
- Injection can only be instigated by targeting a body with sufficient mass/radiation (i.e. a star).
Thoughts?
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I did not found it in post #1, but besides that, it is in general a worse kind of argument, it doesn't matter from whom it is comming from!
Not exactly.
The changes being proposed, if made optional, would not impact the current play style of those who don't want to use it. They can carry on exactly as they do now with no absolutely no change to their existing play style.
For those decide to use the optional feature, they are able to engage with parts of the game that are currently unavailable to them due to lack of time.
So, no one loses, and everyone gains.
Holding back progress for the sake of comfortable familiarity is unnecessarily restrictive, and at odds with a game that encourages progress.
Oh that sounds like a hoot a minute.
There you guys go. You can stop complaining about a boring system being too boring. Apparently the solution is to make it even longer and more boring.
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Ya I could see this feature to help pirates. Which would hurt traders. Because traders would be forced to buy the same module which waste another module space that otherwise be use for cargo or forced traders in solo play.
Then we have the small ship argument. We need another module space because all Large have this feature and we can't catch up with them.
Ya I still see the silver spoon club still trying dumb down the game.
Then we have the small ship argument. We need another module space because all Large have this feature and we can't catch up with them.
Ya I still see the silver spoon club still trying dumb down the game.
Isn't that the point, though? If something is optional, people who enjoy it (like me) can do it, and people who don't enjoy it (like you) don't have to. Everybody wins! Whereas, if the only way to reach a far-off destination is to fly in a straight line for half an hour, people who don't enjoy doing so... are out of luck.
Besides, using parallax does at least require SOME player input, and it doesn't usually take very long either, once you get the hang of it. Whereas travelling long distance in supercruise will always take a long time, no matter how often you do it... and there's nothing to do for the whole time. I realise that parallax is not everyone's cup of tea, but you need to realise that the same can be said of long supercruise journeys, except that they are even worse...
Something like that would be interesting.
The difference is that you're not suggesting (at least, I *hope* you're not suggesting) that Discovery Scanners, orbit lines, the nav panel, and the system map should all be removed from the game in favour of parallax identification.
Presumably you recognise that scanners and system maps are additional tools that can be optionally used to speed up the discovery and mapping process, whilst still allowing players like yourself to continue enjoying the original discovery process as you always have.
So, unless you're objecting to the discovery tools that have been added to the game since release, I take this as implicit agreement from you that existing gameplay mechanics (e.g. long SuperCruise journeys) can be further enhanced, as long as the original method remains unaffected.
And since that is what is being proposed here, then thank you for your support. [up]
The long distances can work in your favour. It gives you the time to go and do some of the house chores like putting the bins out before your partner gets angry at you.
I made 200 mil in one day by doing hutton orbital missions and fitted the floor in the kitchen while doing it (Everyone is happy).
I made 200 mil in one day by doing hutton orbital missions and fitted the floor in the kitchen while doing it (Everyone is happy).
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