Doing the same mistakes for 25 years?

[Kayweg]

Nor does it include the many backers that still use the standalone launcher rather than the steam client, nor xbox users. If anyone were to look at my steam hours they would see a number around 400. The hours I have played on my laptop while working away from home, and certainly not indicative of the hours I have spent actively playing the game at home on pc using the standalone client.

As for what ED is and is not, it was always going to evolve into being an amalgam of all the previous elite games wrapped in a new up to date coat; that was made very clear during kick starter and many interviews at the time. It is not going to be for everyone, no game ever is.

Frankly, I still do not understand why Frontier chose to release the game on steam, that was their real mistake. I predicted in the announcement thread at the time that releasing on Steam would see the forums devolve into an endless stream of whine from people who would expect a different game entirely. And here we are, nearly three and a half years later, the whine still filling the forums everyday from folks who actually had no flipping clue what the developers wanted from Elite Dangerous, nor how it would play.

You don't understand why a publisher would want to sell their game through one of the (if not the) world's biggest online retailers ?
At the cost of some mixed reviews and a few disgruntled customers posting on the forum ?
Where else would those sales have come from if you don't mind me asking ?

 

[RidingTheFlow]

They've chosen to release it on Steam just because they had so much money already that they can't think of any use for it and they wanted to support Steam
/s

 

[SP_Predicador]

You misunderstand my position completely I not only fully accept some people don't like some games I'm one of those people. That's why I'm so picky about the games I purchase.

That's why I think it's strange to buy into games not knowing what you'll get, and that people who can't handle being disappointed like that should never be tempted to do it. Anyone capable of taking part in an internet debate about a game is capable of finding out what the game is going to be like and of making an informed purchase in the first place, if the information isn't available wait and see what happens then decide.

Buyer beware.

Yes, but is not easy as it seems. The info about a game can be compromised and not be confiable. Specially in Kickstarter/Pre Order. The problem is the ad comms before release. Customers may bought in bona fides, following the info, but if the seller was really untruswothy and you didn't know... or even if the seller is going in bona fides, but fails total or partially in the achievement on development planned goals....We know a few of game devs, that nex time they ask to be backed, they will be ignored. Like Piranha when asked for money after MWO to do a new new SC, for example. But to known, people first fell on MWO. Or the NMS creator. Ever would be a risk level.

Few times I fell in Kickst/preorder, broke my rule of never buy a game in pre order, and I regret almost all of them, so I decided some time ago, to never more buy in pre order. Easiest solution.

 

[Thatchinho]

I’ve been playing the space game genre fer a very long time...yet never once a frontier game. PvP only...that’s literally what I lived fer and all I wanted. Got too involved in the last game I played and got my fingers badly burned when it backfired after a huge investment of time on my part doing beta testing till 5 in the morning sorta stuff.

I even switched teams to try and help balance the factions as the faction I belonged to massively outnumbered and outgunned the other faction. Team switching in that game was a limited time event and only if ye qualify...fer 5 years, I was locked into the faction I chose from sign up.

I literally turned my back on all my game friends and gave up a mountain of personal time beta testing all to help improve the pvp. Got it all thrown back into my face...totally wasted effort and I came here burnt out from the effort and the disappointment.

No other game allowed me to explore the Milky Way...this will be the closest I get to it in what time I have left. I’m not a care bear type player by nature...by nature I’m usually yer worst nightmare in a pvp game.

Careful what ye wish fer and be thankful I did come here to explore. Being hated is what I do best on games...I came here to try something new and found I actually enjoyed it...rest is history but old habits die hard and I’ve drifted into combat almost full time nowadays.

That answer the curiosity?

Well, only partially!

I've also played the space genre for a long time but very differently to you. That gives you a very different perspective on things to me, and hence it's interesting to hear.

So what I was wishing for was to get your perspective on exploration on ED. You were saying that you'd come to ED for exploration but times had changed and you'd moved back to combat, so I was wondering about what you thought it would be like before you played, and then was going to ask how it actually had been, whether it had got better/worse from your perspective as time has moved on, what lead to the move back to combat, etc.

Anyway, quite a lot of that's been covered I guess. Where are things for you now on the exploration/combat front? Do you want to head back to exploration again or stick with combat?

 

[Stigbob]

Yes, but is not easy as it seems. The info about a game can be compromised and not be confiable. Specially in Kickstarter/Pre Order. The problem is the ad comms before release. Customers may bought in bona fides, following the info, but if the seller was really untruswothy and you didn't know... or even if the seller is going in bona fides, but fails total or partially in the achievement on development planeed goals....We know a few that nex time they ask to be backers, they will be ignored. Like Piranha asking for money after MWO to do a new new SC, for example. Ever would be a risk level.

Few times I fell in Kickst/preorder, and I regret almost all of them, so I decided to never more buy in pre order. Easiest solution.

I regard all advertising as an unreliable indicator of things that might be true in very broad strokes, presented in a specific way to manipulate people into thinking they need things. It's effectively telling whoppers in a legally regulated way don't believe any of it.

Kickstarter is a gamble, and plans always change. There's nothing wrong with waiting.

 

[SP_Predicador]

I regard all advertising as an unreliable indicator of things that might be true in very broad strokes, presented in a specific way to manipulate people into thinking they need things. It's effectively telling whoppers in a legally regulated way don't believe any of it.

Kickstarter is a gamble, and plans always change. There's nothing wrong with waiting.

So info is not confiable in pre order. And as is a gamble, the easiest to do is not to play. Sorry for trusty really small devs.

 

[Stigbob]

So info is not confiable in pre order. And as is a gamble, the easiest to do is not to play. Sorry for trusty really small devs.

There's nothing wrong with kickstarter itself, and if you check the kickstarter small print it specifically says that things might change or not turn out how you expect. It's just important IMO to bear that in mind when you back one, and set your expectations accordingly.

 

[Rob At Work]

Are you working in that kind of field which does not have proper delivery contracts? Try telling your client that "you can't promise to deliver a target", this surely would work splendid

We promise to deliver at 12:00. We will target 12:00 as our delivery time - one or the other - can't you see the difference?

 

[SP_Predicador]

There's nothing wrong with kickstarter itself, and if you check the kickstarter small print it specifically says that things might change or not turn out how you expect. It's just important IMO to bear that in mind when you back one, and set your expectations accordingly.

Yes, but in the end is a matter of trust. And luck. Plans crash ever against reality, ever, but expectations not ever are responsability only of the customer. If info is not confiable, there would be a risk level, ever, even if you are well informed. I known some people of this videogame sector that lost a gamble of this kind, even knowing really well this industry. People like me that we are not videogame industry worker, we begin with a handicap. And we at any moment can be weak and fell. So I prefer to charge responsability not in people going bona fides, but in the industry. Even if it's obvious that the best win in pre order, is not to play. That should I've done and that I'll do. Wait.

 

[verminstar]

Well, only partially!

I've also played the space genre for a long time but very differently to you. That gives you a very different perspective on things to me, and hence it's interesting to hear.

So what I was wishing for was to get your perspective on exploration on ED. You were saying that you'd come to ED for exploration but times had changed and you'd moved back to combat, so I was wondering about what you thought it would be like before you played, and then was going to ask how it actually had been, whether it had got better/worse from your perspective as time has moved on, what lead to the move back to combat, etc.

Anyway, quite a lot of that's been covered I guess. Where are things for you now on the exploration/combat front? Do you want to head back to exploration again or stick with combat?

The exploration part was something I really got into and quickly, although its easy to get into because its not a very complicated career. Its fairly bare bones but the scenery was nice and just the novelty of it was enough at times. But it wears thin over time and ye begin to see the flaws that before, yer mind ignores..the planets are sterile copies of each other in that its all proceedural with no unique anything to be found. Even the rarest planets and neutrons are but duplicates of many others...simple variations on the same template.

Last time I was out, I literally lived around Sag A in a T9...the fact it was unengineered with 19ly range was what destroyed me in exploration as I refused to suicide back. Its a personal choice true, but grinding the distance back still destroyed me with exploration nonetheless, and I had ignored the rngeers entirely up till that point. That was the point where I decided to start engineering...two years after they were first introduced. I hadnt needed them up till that point.

Im elite in exploration on two accounts...this account was almost two years old and it still had a harmless combat rank. Master on the pc account but that was pre engineers and I aint touched that account in ages. I dont use any out of game resources at all...its a matter of principle to me and I refuse to back down so everything I learn ingame is done through trial and error...trying everything to see what works fer me. Im not gonna start copying other players setups...thats like playing someone elses game, why would I do that?

The combat Im really enjoying atm but I self nerf which needs pointed out. I intentionally dont stack 5 shield boosters when the notion takes me and I wanna fight till the last ring...other times, I still stack them high and farm wing missions which are still quite challenging fer me. The reason they stay a challenge is because Im only semi engineered...I actually cant unlock about half the engineers because theres no information ingame to explain exactly how to. So I wont even try to...because Im stubborn and when I say Ill do something, that means Ill do it. Im not in the habit of making idle threats.

Yes I will go exploring again...quite possibly sooner rather than later. Open play is beginning to vex me...the toxicity is something I never liked, no matter what game I played. I have a whole country full of hateful people I can sit and insult whenever the notion takes me, I come to games to escape that world, not recreate it. I have fun basically...when its not fun, I lose interest and wander off to something that is fun. Good manners and good sportsmanship doesnt cost anything, but their use makes the whole sandpit a much more fun place to be. Open play in this game isnt fun...is what it is and I think of elite as the best multiplayer single player game ever.

As an MMO...its a bit of a standing joke truth be told. Technically, it is...but only technically because of how the bgs works. Its not the modes that make it a joke, its the instancing nature of the server architecture meaning that at best, this game only serves squad level fights...fleets of players simply wont happen and because of that and that alone, Ill never consider this a true MMO.

The combat aspect...enough time has been spent on it already to the detriment of all else. And still, many arent happy and many still want huge transformations done to reverse the power creep that engineers introduced. Tell ye, its not perfect and many issues of balance exist, but those are things that can be fixed with tweaks here and there, nerfs and buffs sorta thing...enough time has been spent on it. Its fun to me and will stay fun fer some time as it stands right now...but then I aint been at it fer years so Im simply a noob enjoying the novelty of it in the clothes of a more experienced player.

Thats my way of saying the jury is out on how to improve stuff...I aint tried everything yet so cant give a truly informed opinion on it...but however...it is fun the fundamentals of how combat work make a good solid foundation. Imho, it merely needs tweaks now while the lions share of the dev time should be directed at the other parts of the game that have been starved fer years.

Anyways...Im rambling again and its tuesday night 2 fer 1 dominoes pizza, then me and the brat are heading out to see infinity wars so if theres any more questions, itll be tonight before I get back to it. Thats assuming the mods dont ban me fer something else.

o7 ^

 

[RidingTheFlow]

We promise to deliver at 12:00. We will target 12:00 as our delivery time - one or the other - can't you see the difference?

Yup. Which of ones are you? Because I won't deal with the second (unless they also give *actual* target which is acceptable).

 

[Space Dandy]

If you don't like the first chapter of a book, you wont like the second the last or anything in-between. They were all written by the same author after all.

You need to know your own preferences to make good decisions.

Ridiculous, I read lots of book and in many books the first 25 or 30% is info dump, you need to stop putting people down and treating people like they are stupid because they are saying things you don't like or agree with, this subtle attack on the posters instead of the arguments is getting old.

Thinking you need to take a step back from this thread there old chap!

 

[Enderby]

If you don't like the first chapter of a book, you wont like the second the last or anything in-between. They were all written by the same author after all.

You need to know your own preferences to make good decisions.

What utter codswallop.

 

[Thatchinho]

The exploration part was something I really got into and quickly, although its easy to get into because its not a very complicated career. Its fairly bare bones but the scenery was nice and just the novelty of it was enough at times. But it wears thin over time and ye begin to see the flaws that before, yer mind ignores..the planets are sterile copies of each other in that its all proceedural with no unique anything to be found. Even the rarest planets and neutrons are but duplicates of many others...simple variations on the same template.

Last time I was out, I literally lived around Sag A in a T9...the fact it was unengineered with 19ly range was what destroyed me in exploration as I refused to suicide back. Its a personal choice true, but grinding the distance back still destroyed me with exploration nonetheless, and I had ignored the rngeers entirely up till that point. That was the point where I decided to start engineering...two years after they were first introduced. I hadnt needed them up till that point.

Im elite in exploration on two accounts...this account was almost two years old and it still had a harmless combat rank. Master on the pc account but that was pre engineers and I aint touched that account in ages. I dont use any out of game resources at all...its a matter of principle to me and I refuse to back down so everything I learn ingame is done through trial and error...trying everything to see what works fer me. Im not gonna start copying other players setups...thats like playing someone elses game, why would I do that?

The combat Im really enjoying atm but I self nerf which needs pointed out. I intentionally dont stack 5 shield boosters when the notion takes me and I wanna fight till the last ring...other times, I still stack them high and farm wing missions which are still quite challenging fer me. The reason they stay a challenge is because Im only semi engineered...I actually cant unlock about half the engineers because theres no information ingame to explain exactly how to. So I wont even try to...because Im stubborn and when I say Ill do something, that means Ill do it. Im not in the habit of making idle threats.

Yes I will go exploring again...quite possibly sooner rather than later. Open play is beginning to vex me...the toxicity is something I never liked, no matter what game I played. I have a whole country full of hateful people I can sit and insult whenever the notion takes me, I come to games to escape that world, not recreate it. I have fun basically...when its not fun, I lose interest and wander off to something that is fun. Good manners and good sportsmanship doesnt cost anything, but their use makes the whole sandpit a much more fun place to be. Open play in this game isnt fun...is what it is and I think of elite as the best multiplayer single player game ever.

As an MMO...its a bit of a standing joke truth be told. Technically, it is...but only technically because of how the bgs works. Its not the modes that make it a joke, its the instancing nature of the server architecture meaning that at best, this game only serves squad level fights...fleets of players simply wont happen and because of that and that alone, Ill never consider this a true MMO.

The combat aspect...enough time has been spent on it already to the detriment of all else. And still, many arent happy and many still want huge transformations done to reverse the power creep that engineers introduced. Tell ye, its not perfect and many issues of balance exist, but those are things that can be fixed with tweaks here and there, nerfs and buffs sorta thing...enough time has been spent on it. Its fun to me and will stay fun fer some time as it stands right now...but then I aint been at it fer years so Im simply a noob enjoying the novelty of it in the clothes of a more experienced player.

Thats my way of saying the jury is out on how to improve stuff...I aint tried everything yet so cant give a truly informed opinion on it...but however...it is fun the fundamentals of how combat work make a good solid foundation. Imho, it merely needs tweaks now while the lions share of the dev time should be directed at the other parts of the game that have been starved fer years.

Anyways...Im rambling again and its tuesday night 2 fer 1 dominoes pizza, then me and the brat are heading out to see infinity wars so if theres any more questions, itll be tonight before I get back to it. Thats assuming the mods dont ban me fer something else.

o7 ^

Just a quick one to say thanks for the reply. Been in stuff all night so just got chance to see it, and won't reply properly until I've had chance to read it (soberly). Hope yez enjoyed Infinity War! No spoilers!

 

[verminstar]

Just a quick one to say thanks for the reply. Been in stuff all night so just got chance to see it, and won't reply properly until I've had chance to read it (soberly). Hope yez enjoyed Infinity War! No spoilers!

Ok no spoilers just to say it answers a few questions that have been doing the rounds fer years, and raises a few more...my wee girl is a huge marvel fan and I grew up with the comics in the 70s and 80s which makes fer fun discussions on long drives ^

Sober pff...sobriety is fer quitters Im rarely sober...its a not overly enjoyable experience...then again, I dont drink anymore, been dry over 9 years

 

[Malkano]

honestly the game for me has been an “ ok and....?” Type thing, it just feels like you got a solid base here ok and now what else is there to do? Nothing just the same stuff? A game should excite me to want to go down this path or that path not well everything is boring. It feels empty and mostly pointless or they add grind so they can call it content, this is kinda the thing MMOs do with daily missions it’s not real content it’s just filler.

 

[Stigbob]

Ridiculous, I read lots of book and in many books the first 25 or 30% is info dump, you need to stop putting people down and treating people like they are stupid because they are saying things you don't like or agree with, this subtle attack on the posters instead of the arguments is getting old.

Thinking you need to take a step back from this thread there old chap!

There are well written info dumps that get you interested in the people and story and don't read like info dumps, and there are badly written info dumps that you have to struggle through to understand what's happening later. A better approach in literature I find is gradual character development interspersed with the story, luckily there are plenty of authors around and I can exercise my preferences. I never bother to struggle through beyond the first chapter with books I don't enjoy, authors only have that long to sell their book to me. I'm a voracious reader and know my own preferences.

As for taking a step back, you need to recognize that if honesty makes you feel attacked or insulted then it may be on point.

Research your purchase is not an insulting, unusual or controversial piece of advice.

 

[Stigbob]

StigBob seems to spend the lion's share of his time attacking anyone that raises a criticism of ED. My suggestion to him would be if he finds the game so flawless, he should probably spend more time playing it.

Then why not make the suggestion to me instead of some random other poster.

 

[Space Dandy]

There are well written info dumps that get you interested in the people and story and don't read like info dumps, and there are badly written info dumps that you have to struggle through to understand what's happening later. A better approach in literature I find is gradual character development interspersed with the story, luckily there are plenty of authors around and I can exercise my preferences. I never bother to struggle through beyond the first chapter with books I don't enjoy, authors only have that long to sell their book to me. I'm a voracious reader and know my own preferences.

If you don't go past chapter one in making your mind up then your missing out on lots of good books, what you're doing is akin to judging a book by its cover but w/e is good to you, have at it.

As for taking a step back, you need to recognize that if honesty makes you feel attacked or insulted then it may be on point.

I have no problem with people being honest and having divergent opinions however I do have a problem with posters giving an opinion purposely designed to insult and denigrate those they are giving it too. Being civil is not being dishonest.

Research your purchase is not an insulting, unusual or controversial piece of advice.

I never said it was. However the beef people have with your posts isn't so much what you are saying but how you are saying it. If too many people are "misreading" your posts then you as the person trying to communicate to us are equally at fault.

 

[Stigbob]

If you don't go past chapter one in making your mind up then your missing out on lots of good books, what you're doing is akin to judging a book by its cover but w/e is good to you, have at it.

I also advise people to never judge a book by it's cover, there are some books that get better but I've found there are far more that just stay mediocre. My method of book selection works for me, as does my method of choosing video games.

I have no problem with people being honest and having divergent opinions however I do have a problem with posters giving an opinion purposely designed to insult and denigrate those they are giving it too. Being civil is not being dishonest.

Some people consider going around the houses to be a waste of time, it also introduces unnecessary misinterpretation. With a point as simple as "buyer beware" there's not much required beyond those two words to explain the standpoint.

Imaginary insults are just that.

I never said it was. However the beef people have with your posts isn't so much what you are saying but how you are saying it. If too many people are "misreading" your posts then you as the person trying to communicate to us are equally at fault.

There's no hidden message in anything I say.