Modes Elite Dangerous PvE vs PvP and who needs a Solo play if you had PvE server

[Riverside]

Find me a better analogy then.

Fighting communism in USSR does not fit. I'd be banned already.

I used the following analogy in another thread:

ED is an empty field, available for anyone to use as they wish. You can walk your dog there, play football, frisbee, anything you like. You are complaining that you can't play football because there are no goalposts, no lines on the grass. Of course you can play football on an empty field, but you want a stadium. If a stadium is built on the field others can no longer walk their dog there, or play frisbee. It's just a field, learn to share.

 

[Jockey79]

Atm situation in ED pleases only players who would be playing on PvE servers in WoW.
Of course PvE players would resist changing the current state of things because they are quite satisfied with it.
While playing on PvP sever, which is Open, should be actually made worthwhile.

There are PvP players who are happy with the game as it is as well.

Because Open is not a "PvP server" - Open allows PvP by consent.
Two different things.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

There are PvP players who are happy with the game as it is as well.

Because Open is not a "PvP server" - Open allows PvP by consent.
Two different things.

OPEN. CONCENT.

And I do not care about consent. My preferred experience is to be always in danger of attack. Then to dodge all attackers/get wrecked by them, but then come back strong. And then either make other's life miserable or protect others from occasional attack.

And this is not just my own kink, PvP servers were always more popular in WoW. But there are almost no people leveling the old way. Everyone just spam dungeons and pokemon battles in between.
And they are merging servers to preserve leveling experience of those who would still like to quest it out.
As well as they are buffing PvP mode to counterbalance things for those who would still like to get that feeling of danger.
As unsupported by any potential gains risks are outright .

And let's not forget that leveling is only the part of things. In WoW as well as in ED. And they are rewarding late game for those in PvP mode as well...

But I do not go into influence problem yet. I will get to it at focused feedback.
And that late game of combat pilot in ED sucks is another question as well.

I used the following analogy in another thread:

ED is an empty field, available for anyone to use as they wish. You can walk your dog there, play football, frisbee, anything you like. You are complaining that you can't play football because there are no goalposts, no lines on the grass. Of course you can play football on an empty field, but you want a stadium. If a stadium is built on the field others can no longer walk their dog there, or play frisbee. It's just a field, learn to share.

If it is just that as you described, why you do not want for people to receive some benefits if they chose to lift some weights on that field? Their effort is quite quantifiable, compared to just lazing there, after all...


But still, let me get deeper into that.

Thing is, there are some goals. Intermediate ones, no doubt. Yet they are shiny. But they are still just means, but you have to get them first in order to use them. And everyone around you has them already, leaving you very-very jealous.

This no-doubt empty field was advertised to me as a giant field full of crocodiles. Yet for those who do not like crocodiles, they are made as completely optional.
I like fields with crocodiles. Fighting crocodiles is my fav past time. And running away from them makes my life richer.
And it's not just me. The majority, I assure you, do want to either become crocodiles or fight crocodiles. (PvP servers were always more popular in WoW.)

But then, you can just switch crocodiles off whenever you like. And then back on. You are risking your legs, but you completely do not have to. Distance to those shiny goals is the same for everyone. And you feel like some cheapskate when everyone around you has those shiny things already.

Does not playing with crocodiles on just makes you look stupid? But I will make my experience worse if I switch crocodiles off. Can I get at least something tangible to keep them turned on?? Some die-hard shoes to allow me to move faster in that swamp of crocodile poo at least?
I came on that field to play with crocodiles, after all. But I always prefer to get to my goals first. Not to mention that I am fracking jealous of those who already are having fun with those shiny things.

But then crocodile-haters start to yell "Why he would receive better shoes and I won't??? I do not care that running away from crocodiles is hard, his crocodile fetish is his own choice! I hate crocodiles, and I do not care if running away from them makes his life richer!"​

... I can't go on without drugs. Sorry. [knocked out]

And I had checked your proposal as well.

First, locking players away in one system is a no-go. It should be everywhere possible. And, as I said, as long as PvE and PvP people do not confront directly, this should be fine.

Secondly, scoring is all over the place. What you miss is that power is not the goal by itself. It is more about means.

• So hauling something strictly in the Open does work.
• Leaving cap ship in the open does work.
• Some winnable at last BGs would work.

I should actually hurry up with formulation. Focused feedback for squadrons is close.

 

[Jockey79]

OPEN. CONCENT.

And I do not care about consent. My preferred experience is to be always in danger of attack. Then to dodge all attackers/get wrecked by them, but then come back strong. And then either make other's life miserable or protect others from occasional attack.

And this is not just my own kink, PvP servers were always more popular in WoW. But there are almost no people leveling the old way. Everyone just spam dungeons and pokemon battles in between.
And they are merging servers to preserve leveling experience of those who would still like to quest it out.
As well as they are buffing PvP mode to counterbalance things for those who would still like to get that feeling of danger.
As unsupported by any potential gains risks are outright .

And let's not forget that leveling is only the part of things. In WoW as well as in ED. And they are rewarding late game for those in PvP mode as well...

But I do not go into influence problem yet. I will get to it at focused feedback.
And that late game of combat pilot in ED sucks is another question as well.

Does not matter what your opinion on consent is - it was always part of the game.
Right from the Kickstarter Frontier made it clear each player can choose to be your target or not.

Perhaps you should have read up on the game first and been a smart buyer?

 

[Riverside]

If it is just that as you described, why you do not want for people to receive some benefits if they chose to lift some weights on that field? Their effort is quite quantifiable, compared to just lazing there, after all...

You can lift weights, you can do anything you want that doesn't destroy the field for others.

You organise a football match with jumpers for goalposts. A dog walker then starts walking through your match rather than being considerate and going around a part of the field that is clearly currently being used. They are not good at sharing, they fail Wheaton's law. Your players harrass the dog walker off 'your' pitch. You just failed Wheaton's law too. The dog walkers come back in the night & leave presents all over your pitch. Who wins? No one, now the field is spoiled for everyone.

A little consideration for the shared space, a little give and take and some mutual respect is all that's required. It really isn't that hard, and the local council shouldn't need to get involved to remove all the biowaste.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Does not matter what your opinion on consent is - it was always part of the game.
Right from the Kickstarter Frontier made it clear each player can choose to be your target or not.

Perhaps you should have read up on the game first and been a smart buyer?

Look.
I want MY choice not to be an experience vs efficiency one. I want mode selection choice to become "PvP experience" vs "PvE experience one". And rewards for PvP mode, as long as they are rigorously balanced, would do that.

You can lift weights, you can do anything you want that doesn't destroy the field for others.

You organise a football match with jumpers for goalposts. A dog walker then starts walking through your match rather than being considerate and going around a part of the field that is clearly currently being used. They are not good at sharing, they fail Wheaton's law. Your players harrass the dog walker off 'your' pitch. You just failed Wheaton's law too. The dog walkers come back in the night & leave presents all over your pitch. Who wins? No one, now the field is spoiled for everyone.

A little consideration for the shared space, a little give and take and some mutual respect is all that's required. It really isn't that hard, and the local council shouldn't need to get involved to remove all the biowaste.

No, I am tired of decrypting or generating analogies.
Just look above, and keep in mind that tone in which it was written is not meant for you.

 

[Riverside]

Look.
I want MY choice not to be an expirience vs efficiency one. I want this choice to become PvP expirience vs PvE expirience one. And rewards for PvP, as long as they are balanced, would do that.

You sure it wouldn't just mean you have slightly more money?

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

You sure it wouldn't just mean you have slightly more money?

What do you mean? They are not real money, you know. You have very limited directions where you can spend them.

 

[Jockey79]

Look.
I want MY choice not to be an experience vs efficiency one. I want mode selection choice to become "PvP experience" vs "PvE experience one". And rewards for PvP mode, as long as they are rigorously balanced, would do that.

You get your choice. You get to PvP with people who choose to PvP with you.
The reward for that, is getting the game play you enjoy with others.

This was clearly stated before you bought the game, that we all get to choose who to play with.
I choose not to play with you, I get the game play I want as my reward.

Frontier do not need to give you something just because you made a choice like I did.

 

[Mouse]

Look.
I want MY choice not to be an experience vs efficiency one. I want mode selection choice to become "PvP experience" vs "PvE experience one". And rewards for PvP mode, as long as they are rigorously balanced, would do that.



No, I am tired of decrypting or generating analogies.
Just look above, and keep in mind that tone in which it was written is not meant for you.

No you want YOUR choice to get money even though it is just that... a choice.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

You get your choice. You get to PvP with people who choose to PvP with you.
The reward for that, is getting the game play you enjoy with others.

This was clearly stated before you bought the game, that we all get to choose who to play with.
I choose not to play with you, I get the game play I want as my reward.

Frontier do not need to give you something just because you made a choice like I did.

There was no choice for you. You get preferred experience AND efficiency.
Yet there is a preferred experience vs efficiency choice for me.

And I do not want to make that choice. Same as it was for you.

This would be balance.

 

[Jockey79]

There was no choice for you. There is a preferred expirience vs efficiency one for me.

And I do not want to make that choice. Same as it was for you.

This would be balance.

There is a choice for me, I choose to play the mode that fits my mood.
Just like there is a choice for you. We have the same choices, so it is balanced.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

There is a choice for me, I choose to play the mode that fits my mood.
Just like there is a choice for you. We have the same choices, so it is balanced.

Your choice did not include anything but your personal preference.
Mine does include playing poker while making bets with no returns.

Balance will be there when making bets will return at least bet back at full volume. So it will just come down to my personal preference as well.

I am tired of this "there is no spoon" stuff. C ya tommorow.

 

[Riverside]

What do you mean? They are not real money, you know. You have very limited directions where you can spend them.

I mean it's not why people fight. And of course I was referring to in-game credits

Some fight because they just want to fight. They need no extra motivation, only other players. Fighting is why they play.

Then there are those that want to achieve a goal. If they can achieve it unopposed no other motivation than achieving their goal will make them fight. Fighting is a chore.

You are looking for a way to make people (like me) who are willing to fight but don't want to, to engage someone who wants to fight. You want to create an imbalance where currently there is none.

What I'm looking for is a way for fighters to be able to interact with other fighters, and achievers to interact with other achievers.

Very probably neither of us will succeed.
In both cases because fighters want to attack achievers, and the only reason an Achiever would fight would be to achieve a worthwhile goal.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

There is a choice for me, I choose to play the mode that fits my mood.
Just like there is a choice for you. We have the same choices, so it is balanced.

The modes are not balanced. Never were and never will be at the current state.

The balance of choice is not the same as balance of modes.

 

[Asp Explorer]

The modes are not balanced. Never were and never will be at the current state.

The balance of choice is not the same as balance of modes.

There is also the balance of power - and players exert that power by choosing to enjoy their gametime in whichever mode they select.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The modes are not balanced. Never were and never will be at the current state.

The balance of choice is not the same as balance of modes.

True true, still waiting for NPC wings to make that balance a bit more even.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

True true, still waiting for NPC wings to make that balance a bit more even.

If NPC wing members will have the same abilities as NPC pirates or bounty hunters I think you would be better alone, but overall dont see why they wont add NPC wings.

 

[Jockey79]

Your choice did not include anything but your personal preference.
Mine does include playing poker while making bets with no returns.

Balance will be there when making bets will return at least bet back at full volume. So it will just come down to my personal preference as well.

I am tired of this "there is no spoon" stuff. C ya tommorow.

Your preference is to play with others - so your choice does include your preference just like mine does.

And if we went to a casino and you choose to bet your time and money and I don't - no one will give you extra money when it all goes wrong for you.
So why should Frontier give you extra here when your bet goes wrong?

Game is balanced, as we keep saying - you are worth the same as me and have the same choices as me.
If you choose to bet it all away, then that is your choice - choose better net time.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My preferred experience is to be always in danger of attack. Then to dodge all attackers/get wrecked by them, but then come back strong. And then either make other's life miserable or protect others from occasional attack.

Well, there's your reward for playing in Open. The best reward you could get out of a game. Enjoyment.