[O.A. VIDEO] Does Elite Dangerous Have a Content Problem?

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think that the game should spawn a number of USS when entering SC from the get go and provide basic info about them prior to scan. Details upon scanning. If they where semi-persistent it would help a lot with concealing their RNG nature.

I also think that the game could be a bit more clever about ship spawns in SC. If a player has interdictor + hatch breakers, maybe tilting spawns toward cargo ships would be nice. Same goes for bounty hunters and such. If a number of ships where spawned from the get go in SC it would make the "oh a player, let's populate the instance drop by drop effect less jaring. Even better if said npcs where somewhat persistent.

And tying SS like HGEs with missions would also go a long way.

I think we could have a mixture of the two. Some semi persistant USS's like you suggest and some random ones thrown in.

See, I want to see USS's created the moment a ship enters a system, but be invisible to the ship until a passive scan is done. More detailed scanning can ultimately tell a player everything about what is in a USS. As I said, for me its about tying together various game mechanics into a cohesive bundle.

Agreed. I still think there is a place for some Random USS's, but they should be rare, not have 100's of the things showing up all the time.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I think we could have a mixture of the two. Some semi persistant USS's like you suggest and some random ones thrown in.

Exactly. Something like 5 uss from the get go that persist for say 10-60 minutes depending on the type, plus new ones poping up every now and then.

Yes that would work well.

 

[NeilF]

There was a time when OA made fine videos about the game that ED is and how you can have fun with it.

He still does. Indeed OA's videos are about the only enjoyment I get from ED these days

And I would say he's far from alone in content creators in at times pointing out the (potential) issues growing in ED. And I'd also say he's generally very fair about it and I suspect carefully considers what he says in such videos.

I just do not like the increasing undertone of generalization declaring new content ideas as some must-haves or the game would be bad and die because it would be significantly lacking features. Elite has a lot to offer even after thousands of hours and many folks who are pressing for new features have indeed their money worth from the game a hundred times (while it is still mighty fine to be bored after all that time and play something else - why not be grateful for the good times you had with it?).

Other games will have to take a long way to keep players interested the way ED managed so far. The shoes of ED are big. Just saying.

I've certainly had more than my money's worth from ED, even though I've now given up with it due to what I see as year(s) of wasted opportunities and a long list of questionable design decisions.

So should the fact that I got a lot of game time with it mean I shouldn't voice my opinion of what I'd like from FD to make me engage to ED again? Surely be it that I enjoyed the game for ten hours or a thousand hours, if there's seemingly things that can be improve or changed, the time I've played is rrelevant to these views? Except possibly the longer I've played, the more insight I might have and therefore the more relevant they might be?

 

[lenna]

I agree, the GalNet audio playback is a baby step in the right direction of making in-game information more accessible... however, I've recently been asking myself the question - if I played the game using only the in-game information sources, without ever looking at YouTube, using Google, reading gaming websites or frequenting these forums, how would I get to see all this cool stuff?

Where the guardians are concerned, GalNet did provide articles pointing at specific systems and the Ram Tah mission.

Before the Ram Ta mission, I used a GalNet article's galaxy map link to direct me to one of three systems. I failed to bookmark all three systems before the article expired but that was my fault in the main.

When I initially got the Ram Ta mission, I did initially go to the guardian sites and try and figure the combinations out for myself - the fact that some objects were missing from the given site I visited did not help which is the only thing that prompted me to google for the symbol meanings and confirm what I already suspected. For at least some, the specific mechanics for that particular task are frustrating and irritating but I can see how some may love such mechanics - I do not, but I am not dead against them either. I do see however how such things can be improved upon to make the more acceptable to those who do object to the specific mechanics.

The Codex mechanic that has been mentioned as forthcoming may help more with some of the specifics like symbol to artefact mapping but with the specific matter we are discussing, GalNet has the ability to give the necessary guidance to find the mentioned things without resorting to bespoke missions or tip-offs.

YouTube, Google, and gaming websites (inc. forums like this) are not required, but can help with cases where you might be unsure or stuck on a particular issue.

 

[Vorxian]

For me personally, content means toys in the toy box. Elite has a ridiculously large toy box, yet there's not many toys in it. Sure we have ships.. but... lack of uses for these toys.

Give a kid an empty room, and a box stuffed with toys, and lego bricks to make things to play in, and that empty room becomes anything the kid wants. I watch my 7 yr old daughter play with toys, and every time it becomes a different adventure. As soon as I start telling her what to do, her fun seems to start eroding, so I let her take control, her imagination becomes the universe.

In ED we have so many things dictating how we should do things (grind, linear jobs etc).. but no real tools or sandbox toys to make our own experiences with ED unique and varied.

Content for me means more sandbox toys, building blocks, freedom to do things my imagination limits me to.

Maybe the missing ingredient is space legs, and atmosphere / planetry fauna and flora, and ability to build.

Maybe I'm imagining asking for the moon on a stick. But I live in hope.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I think we could have a mixture of the two. Some semi persistant USS's like you suggest and some random ones thrown in.



Agreed. I still think there is a place for some Random USS's, but they should be rare, not have 100's of the things showing up all the time.

Well, just spit-balling here, but my thought is: Commander Frame-shifts into a new system. The game randomly "rolls" X semi-persistent USS's, with the number & type rolled weighted by System Type, System State, Population......that kind of thing. These USS's are then fairly randomly scattered around the System (oh *please* give us an Orrery Map option, FDev ). The player can then either encounter them by chance, as they fly along (similar to what happens now), or the player can do a passive scan to try & automatically discover all the USS's within X light seconds of the ship, then go & investigate them individually. Either way, one USS will not simply disappear because you chose to drop in on a second USS instead.

 

[NeilF]

Exactly. Something like 5 uss from the get go that persist for say 10-60 minutes depending on the type, plus new ones poping up every now and then.

Yes that would work well.

I think in an idea world there would be a stateful NPC server in effect playing thousands?/tens of thousands? of NPC in effect like mini CMDRs, going about their little NPC lives. And where one of their instances crosses paths with a real CMDRs, the CMDRs sees them accordingly.

While out of CMDR instances they would tick along in a very light simulation. But when fully brought to life by a CMDR who crosses into their instance, the NPC server obviously then throws more effort into them.

In an ideal universe of course, every NPC in the game would be simulated like this... But I guess it come down to how difficult/practical this would be, and would te outcome be beneficial enough.


I guess the upshot is to try and move the game from what is quite clearly just dice being rolled to create encounters, to instead the game actually being more of a simulation you are playing within. ie: The NPC pirate you can see in your system hasn't just been rolled into existence 2 seconds ago by your PC, but has been in these systems pirating NPCs and CMDRs for days/weeks thanks to a dedicated stateful simulation.

 

[verminstar]

For me personally, content means toys in the toy box. Elite has a ridiculously large toy box, yet there's not many toys in it. Sure we have ships.. but... lack of uses for these toys.

Give a kid an empty room, and a box stuffed with toys, and lego bricks to make things to play in, and that empty room becomes anything the kid wants. I watch my 7 yr old daughter play with toys, and every time it becomes a different adventure. As soon as I start telling her what to do, her fun seems to start eroding, so I let her take control, her imagination becomes the universe.

In ED we have so many things dictating how we should do things (grind, linear jobs etc).. but no real tools or sandbox toys to make our own experiences with ED unique and varied.

Content for me means more sandbox toys, building blocks, freedom to do things my imagination limits me to.

Maybe the missing ingredient is space legs, and atmosphere / planetry fauna and flora, and ability to build.

Maybe I'm imagining asking for the moon on a stick. But I live in hope.

Have been an avid supporter of base building mechanics from day one...starting to doubt we will ever see the like...and the thought makes me sad

 

[Stigbob]

Cos Im currently broke, skint and otherwise on the poverty line...struggling with the credit grind. Thats why Im still salty over the removal of all the exploits and cash farms...nothing to look forward to now except doing it the hard way.

One grind at a time is what I can manage...taking on another grind would see me playing mass effect every night instead of elite. And to what end anyway? I have zero interest in thargoids and the npc wildlife are already easy with just bits n pieces of engineering...so what exactly am I working towards?

One grind at a time m8, one grind at a time...one I can handle and even enjoy in a twisted and warped way, but two? Beyond me Im afraid, I know me own limits ^

I sold all my ships other than the six I thought were really worth keeping as they excel at different roles, drops the amount of engineering grind I can even consider and boosted my credits to about half a billion.

FDL assassinations and BH'ing
Corvette CZ's and wing assassinations (shared internals with annie)
Cheiftain thargoid hunter
Anaconda heavily armed trade/rescue ship
Courier messing about/mission runner
DBX explorer and jump taxi

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, just spit-balling here, but my thought is: Commander Frame-shifts into a new system. The game randomly "rolls" X semi-persistent USS's, with the number & type rolled weighted by System Type, System State, Population......that kind of thing. These USS's are then fairly randomly scattered around the System (oh *please* give us an Orrery Map option, FDev ). The player can then either encounter them by chance, as they fly along (similar to what happens now), or the player can do a passive scan to try & automatically discover all the USS's within X light seconds of the ship, then go & investigate them individually. Either way, one USS will not simply disappear because you chose to drop in on a second USS instead.

Yep, I like that. I just think that there should be the odd one that appears afterwards, like when an NPC gets interdicted by another, that could add a Distress Call USS type scenario to the ones that are already in system.

 

[lenna]

In ED we have so many things dictating how we should do things (grind, linear jobs etc).. but no real tools or sandbox toys to make our own experiences with ED unique and varied.

I disagree, some of the "tools" can be pretty abstract but there are mechanisms there and in-place.

If you are after building things (i.e. empire/business building mechanics), then ED is not the game for you (and never should be) IMO. At least not in a persistent cross-instance single universe state way.

The tools that can make your game experience unique are the BGS, PowerPlay, and your ship/build choices (the latter is contaminated by the growth of metas). The way that BGS and Power Play can affect your gameplay could perhaps be enhanced in places BUT personally I feel it is about at the right level as it currently stands. What I am talking about there is more to do with reputation management.

If you want to be the big bad public enemy number one in most systems you can be - just do everything possible to reduce your reputation with at least a select few factions.

If you want to be neutral and respected by everyone you can be - it takes work to do so but it is possible.

If you want to support the Federation/Alliance/Empire and annoy everyone else - you can do that too.

The tools/mechanisms are there, they just may need some enhancement to make them more visible.

As for space legs, atmospheric planets and other stuff on FD's wish list - we will have to wait and see.

Some alternative SRV variants would be welcome at this point.

 

[Jonny Shiloh]

The Codex mechanic that has been mentioned as forthcoming may help more with some of the specifics like symbol to artefact mapping but with the specific matter we are discussing, GalNet has the ability to give the necessary guidance to find the mentioned things without resorting to bespoke missions or tip-offs.

YouTube, Google, and gaming websites (inc. forums like this) are not required, but can help with cases where you might be unsure or stuck on a particular issue.

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure part of the problem I have with accessing this stuff from the specific GalNet discussion we're now having, is that I am, generally, a fairly inattentive gamer... however, I still feel there's something missing. FDev go to the bother of creating this stuff, wouldn't bespoke missions add to the richness of the experience?

 

[verminstar]

I sold all my ships other than the six I thought were really worth keeping as they excel at different roles, drops the amount of engineering grind I can even consider and boosted my credits to about half a billion.

FDL assassinations and BH'ing
Corvette CZ's and wing assassinations (shared internals with annie)
Cheiftain thargoid hunter
Anaconda heavily armed trade/rescue ship
Courier messing about/mission runner
DBX explorer and jump taxi

I used to have more ships too and I despise selling ships even if I dont use them that much. A rating the cutter wiped me out even after selling the conda, T9 and the python...Im still minus a c8 thruster and am limping in a c7 due to them costing 120m. I could get it now but Id have only 2 rebuys left and thats sailing a bit too close to the wind fer my tastes.

And then theres the T10 which is only half ready...apart from that, a chieftain and a long range dbe fer a taxi and thats my entire fleet. I sold everything else to fund the cutter, although in fairness since getting the cutter, I dont use anything else because theres no need fer anything else.

Im a big ship player, I love big ships and rarely use anything else unless fer a specific reason. When yer flying with a 30m rebuy, ones perspective changes somewhat when ye got less than 180m in yer wallet and facing an uphill struggle to recover some credits in the game as it is now ^

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Yes content exists, it's the form it takes that's the issue.
G5, signal source exclusive, material gathering is too random and not fun. Things were supposed to mitigate the issue (Material Traders) instead compound the issue. (Yeah, yeah trade down: see two sentences prior to this one).
The gameplay loops need to be fun. The Guardian stuff is fun the first few times you do them. But the constant requirement to rinse repeat to unlock something *Shudders*
"Do it in stages, take a break doing something else and come back later" doesn't alter the fact it's a rinse repeat mechanic.
There is no reasonable defense for these mechanics as they exist now and they need to be improved.

 

[Sirius Agent]

This is just speculation, not a content-idea itself.

You have better idea or you just like to complain about everything? With custom mods we may have everything we want. There is actually no better way for more content, besides Fdev's long and boring seasons.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I see the usual complain-fest is underway, like always before a major update.

 

[lenna]

I hear what you're saying, and I'm sure part of the problem I have with accessing this stuff from the specific GalNet discussion we're now having, is that I am, generally, a fairly inattentive gamer... however, I still feel there's something missing. FDev go to the bother of creating this stuff, wouldn't bespoke missions add to the richness of the experience?

They did with the Ram Tah mission - with mixed reception about the nature of it's implementation.

Bespoke missions are not necessarily the answer, and if Ram Tah is an example of what FD have in store on that score then it will turn some people away from the game completely. I personally know of at least one player that would abandon the game rather than jump through hoops like those.

GalNet can deliver on these things, missions just supplement it and can provide an added incentive. Missions are a double edged sword though, as it is difficult (if not impossible) to implement such bespoke missions in a way that would please everyone looking at such content. Tie such things to the wrong locations, add too much (or not enough) complexity, add too much (or not enough) abstraction, or make them too repetitive and at least someone (if not a lot of people) will find reason to criticise it (whether fair or not).

 

[Jex =TE=]

For OA's opening question about people getting burned out - nope, content has been asked for since launch. We've been nothing but on point when asking for more depth and meaning and less weird game mechanics (CQC) and definitely no unfinished mechanics (PP, MC) or broken ones or game breaking ones (Eng's) or grindy/repetitive ones (Eng/Guardians).

 

[verminstar]

I see the usual complain-fest is underway, like always before a major update.

The irony being that yer one line oh so constructive comment is also complaining about others complaining

Well done...there is now a level zero ^

 

[Factabulous]

Have been an avid supporter of base building mechanics from day one...starting to doubt we will ever see the like...and the thought makes me sad

Base building is in the Planet Coaster DLC for ED, supposed to be pretty good, though integration with ED is not the best. Personally I'm looking forward to the base-destruction DLC (I think it's codenamed JWE) - that looks more fun.