Modes Open mode balancing proposal

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

The use of the word '' (or other similar ones used with the same intent to troll/flame) will result in moderation. I've already cleaned up a lot of that in here.

We can have a conversation without resorting to puerile and offensive insults.

Then I would ask to outline a number of appropriate terms, medical or otherwise, for me to categorize people which for some or the other reason fail to recognize efficiency as a function of time (and other recourses) and output, amongst other trivial facts.

 

[Riverside]

Then I would ask to outline a number of appropriate terms, medical or otherwise, for me to categorize people which for some or the other reason fail to recognize efficiency as a function of time (and other recourses) and output, amongst other trivial facts.

Here's an idea, how about you just debate the points raised rather than the poster(s)? If you feel you are being personally attacked strip out that part and respond to the logical argument. Sometimes there is nothing left to respond to

 

[Asp Explorer]

I cannot play at work.

I can Become your own boss

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I'll never understand why all those hard working casual players are so keen to play just space games. What is left over if you rip off all illusions of time and distance from a space game? You'll end up with a game that has a space theme at best (like EVE) but other then that, WHY? As if there are not enough games on the market for casual players, especially for those looking for a challenge. Just help me to understand: Why does it has to be Elite and why does it has to be adjusted then to these players?

I would say that search for efficiency exactly is what categorises hardcore games. And not a process of scavenging for broken ship parts.
As illusions start to fall off in ED after upgrading to a ship which would be comfortable to use with three fire triggers. At least, it was so for me.

This game have an adequate galaxy model as well as technical design. Excluding that, it is a quite naive arcade. It has some hardcore yet highly optional and (therefore??) inefficient and underdeveloped stuff. But the game is quite casual by it's balance of highest efficiency point.

 

[Asp Explorer]

But the game is quite casual by it's balance of highest efficiency point.

For clarity - could we please get a clearer idea of what you mean by "efficiency point"?

For some players, the absolutely most efficient thing they can possibly do is repeatedly log an alt on and off. Most other players would gain nothing from that. What efficiencies are you describing? What are your metrics, and your controls, and peak and trough data?

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

For clarity - could we please get a clearer idea of what you mean by "efficiency point"?

For some players, the absolutely most efficient thing they can possibly do is repeatedly log an alt on and off. Most other players would gain nothing from that. What efficiencies are you describing? What are your metrics, and your controls, and peak and trough data?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficiency

 

[Asp Explorer]

And how do you apply that to Elite in particular?

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

And how do you apply that to Elite in particular?

All progression in ED is a chore if you want to take part in PvP activities. As you have to make absurd amount of trial and error due to extreme rock-paper-scissors balance and overall state of it, and absence PvP brackets which leads to PvP requiring exactly min-maxed top-grade ships.
At least PvE players have a variety of torpedoes to use. And all of this is deep on the same level as weight of 8A sensors.

Even with all the exploits, I had spent around 500 hrs for trial and error. So you would ask me to take my time instead and begin PvPing about a year later?

Still, I had never left Open untill after Python.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Even with all the exploits, I had spent around 500 hrs for trial and error. So you would ask me to take my time instead and begin PvPing about a year later?

No - I'd ask you to wipe your save and git gud without exploiting.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

No - I'd ask you to wipe your save and git gud without exploiting.

Getting all PP modules must mean reaching godlike level then. Whole year of doing nothing. Such effort.

 

[Mouse]

I like my virgin blood pudding style anyway.



Just admit you didn't actually look at the video before you posted it.

The interrogation will go much easier.

We might even consider a reduced sentence if you give us useful information on your co-conspirators.

Funny as I did look at it and what I posted was exactly what I wanted to post... Algo put his foot in his mouth and proved he doesn't even look at others discussion before blasting it or dismissing it. That or the "PVP KING" doesn't know the difference in a NPC and a PC ... which I highly doubt.

You heavily mistake Open with Mobious, it seems.




Can you just agree that doing anything in the Open except random PvP just does not worth it while it pays the same?

Nope not at all, especially when multiple people play and Open and tell you it is worth it. That isn't even counting all the people who are found in Open doing everything but just PVP. They are all proving you wrong. YOU may not like it, and you are trying to change the game on your personal opinion. What was that about "hardcore" again?

How come it is unrelated when game gives you simple ways to get to your goal with lesser risk while sacrificing your experience?



The point of doing anything in the Open is to evade the danger. So about any system without the blanket bonus, no matter how low, will punish the player.

Interesting comment as the point of anything in Open is pretty much the same as the other Modes. If you CHOOSE PVP that is you.. You wanted the experience and complain that you are not getting paid for it. Since you so like using real life examples, it would be if every time you went to Disneyland, after you pay the entrance fee, you demanded they pay you for going on the rides.

Hazard pay is indeed a thing - and construction workers that actually work at height will probably get paid more for actually working at height.

How that compares to playing in Open where one might, or might not, encounter another player is not clear.

Can't rep you at the moment so 1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon.

Reduced cargo capacity and jump range are the results of building a 'safe for open' trade ship. The ship will not get more efficient, by not encountering another player. The price is already payed.

I find this rather odd as the price is the same no matter the mode you are in. A trading ship that is "safe for open" is the same as one that is "safe for PGs" and "safe for Solo". If you take sort cuts in your builds in any of the modes to maximize cargo and all... you are a blooming sitting duck no matter if it is NPC or PC.

You're making an economical argument. The question is: Do you enjoy Open or not? If not, stay in Solo. If so, watch that video and stop pretending your time is valuable.

Can't rep you again so soon, so 1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon.

In all of your examples the key factor your argument depends on is player interaction, not being in Open. Progress is generally slower in Open, but you can receive help as well as face an adversary. IME it more than compensates, and it is more fun.

Your central point is that Open is inherently dangerous which is true enough, but completely overlooks how much help can also be found there, and how much more exciting & fun that can be. You are repeatedly telling only half the story. I have played in Open for years, travelled all over the place, helped, received help, been attacked and generally had a blast. It is a different way to play.

Your arguing the danger from the stance of one who apparently makes it a dangerous place (by initiating attacks, something I don't usually do) is becoming tiresome. You choose to play in a more exciting and risky way, your reward is your own personal satisfaction (except apparently not because you are clearly frustrated). All of the risks you describe can be mitigated, the only issue is whether a player complains if their risk doesn't pay off.

The black & whitelists aren't going to go away. Nor are the players playing in a way you don't approve of. They probably don't approve of your style either. Accept this difference of opinion and just enjoy the game for what it is with your friends, because one day we will no longer be able to play at all

1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon for you as well.

Cause I do mode-switch. And about 90% of Open players do so as well. It breaks enjoyment of the game. And this have to stop, by providing incentives to bind yourself to a single game mode. Otherwise, Open mode would remain only as a FFA PvP mode with weird matchmaking.

Oh hogswallow... if you think that for you it breaks the enjoyment of the game THEN DON'T do it. No one is forcing you to do it, no one is calling you out for not doing it, no one but YOU is the deciding factor on if you mode switch or not. There are plenty of players who do not do it, and what PROOF, there is that five letter word again, do you have that 90% of Open does it? Or is that a statistic you pulled out of your backside?

Choice. Is. Not. Balanced.
Why it is so hard to simply agree with it, instead of plainly contradicting logic?

Choice. Is. Balanced. You can do it or you cannot do it... the choice is yours... claiming the choice is unbalanced is poppycock. How will you ever be able to handle a hardmode if you can't handle that some people do things that you don't do?

And why would we agree with you... it isn't contradicting logic, you've yet to say something logical.

Then I would ask to outline a number of appropriate terms, medical or otherwise, for me to categorize people which for some or the other reason fail to recognize efficiency as a function of time (and other recourses) and output, amongst other trivial facts.

Why would you want to call yourself names though? You want the mods to give you a list of insults that you can call others? Really? Ok this takes trolling to a whole new level.

 

[Asp Explorer]

My dear Mouse - pretty much anyone who describes themselves as hardcore - guaranteed isn't

It's part of what makes these discussions so merriful

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Funny as I did look at it and what I posted was exactly what I wanted to post... Algo put his foot in his mouth and proved he doesn't even look at others discussion before blasting it or dismissing it. That or the "PVP KING" doesn't know the difference in a NPC and a PC ... which I highly doubt.



Nope not at all, especially when multiple people play and Open and tell you it is worth it. That isn't even counting all the people who are found in Open doing everything but just PVP. They are all proving you wrong. YOU may not like it, and you are trying to change the game on your personal opinion. What was that about "hardcore" again?



Interesting comment as the point of anything in Open is pretty much the same as the other Modes. If you CHOOSE PVP that is you.. You wanted the experience and complain that you are not getting paid for it. Since you so like using real life examples, it would be if every time you went to Disneyland, after you pay the entrance fee, you demanded they pay you for going on the rides.



Can't rep you at the moment so 1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon.



I find this rather odd as the price is the same no matter the mode you are in. A trading ship that is "safe for open" is the same as one that is "safe for PGs" and "safe for Solo". If you take sort cuts in your builds in any of the modes to maximize cargo and all... you are a blooming sitting duck no matter if it is NPC or PC.



Can't rep you again so soon, so 1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon.



1000 units of Cubeo Razorback Bacon for you as well.



Oh hogswallow... if you think that for you it breaks the enjoyment of the game THEN DON'T do it. No one is forcing you to do it, no one is calling you out for not doing it, no one but YOU is the deciding factor on if you mode switch or not. There are plenty of players who do not do it, and what PROOF, there is that five letter word again, do you have that 90% of Open does it? Or is that a statistic you pulled out of your backside?



Choice. Is. Balanced. You can do it or you cannot do it... the choice is yours... claiming the choice is unbalanced is poppycock. How will you ever be able to handle a hardmode if you can't handle that some people do things that you don't do?

And why would we agree with you... it isn't contradicting logic, you've yet to say something logical.




Why would you want to call yourself names though? You want the mods to give you a list of insults that you can call others? Really? Ok this takes trolling to a whole new level.

My dear Mouse - pretty much anyone who describes themselves as hardcore - guaranteed isn't

It's part of what makes these discussions so merriful

Like.. I am truly lost in the smoke you are producing...

I though I do know quite a bit about hardcore games - yet some roleplay persons want to prove me otherwise...

And, despite you derailing it somewhere yet again - nothing you said provides valid arguments against risk premiums.
Exept that "all modes are equal" stuff, which is just utter nonsense, and which people contradict here in the next post after they had stated that.

I find this rather odd as the price is the same no matter the mode you are in. A trading ship that is "safe for open" is the same as one that is "safe for PGs" and "safe for Solo". If you take sort cuts in your builds in any of the modes to maximize cargo and all... you are a blooming sitting duck no matter if it is NPC or PC.

Or something like this. Like... really? And the same person talks about trolling at the same post?
So I indeed do require some appropriate terms. This is useless to simply reason against those kinds of arguments.

 

[Asp Explorer]

We cannot provide valid arguments, until we have a valid point to argue against.

You have not provided anything other than vague allusions as to how your "Efficiency" matters in gameplay. You have not provided, well, anything really, other than lulz.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

We cannot provide valid arguments, until we have a valid point to argue against.

You have not provided anything other than vague allusions as to how your "Efficiency" matters in gameplay. You have not provided, well, anything really, other than lulz.

There is an OP in this thread.

 

[Asp Explorer]

There is an OP in this thread.

And correct me if I am incorrect, but I would say that is you.


Nobody is asking for very much, just clear descriptions and reasonings of what you want from any proposed modifications.

Oh - I neglected "new". My apologies on that omission.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

And correct me if I am incorrect, but I would say that is you.

I do not know why I should add anything else to that.

Can you just carefully explain what you have against adding risk premiums? Only belivable answer to that so far was an average mindset of a player base. Which is greed/personal traumas/unwillingness to part with the comfortable state of things. Sometimes it is stated bluntly, sometimes it is "supported" with baseless and stupid statements. Other than that, nothing noteworthy.

I had tried to reason here for a couple of months. After each time it is concluded yet again that the only reasons against those are ones that I had just stated, Riverside comes in and tells that it is "the majority's opinion" and then it get derailed somewhere yet again.

 

[Asp Explorer]

You haven't even explained or defined "risk premiums"

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

You haven't even explained or defined "risk premiums"

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-is-hazard-pay-2062002
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_aversion > and note that there is nothing to gain.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/145507?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents > such diminish would be appliable if modes were separated.

 

[Asp Explorer]

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/what-is-hazard-pay-2062002
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_aversion > and note that there is nothing to gain.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/145507?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents > such diminish would be appliable if modes were separated.

Again, that's all junk.

How does any of that, explicitly, veritably, and definitively, apply to Elite?

I'm not trying to say this discussion is done, but until more prescient arguments are presented - I'm going to go drink beer and play Armour-Geddon.