A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[gushaines]

Hi Gus
Keeping things simple

When starting out if you want to take over the main station\system. Then simply get by our influence up to what I suggest is 75% influence (others might say 70)


Because you have no stations in the system, then the dominant or owning faction has to challenge you at the earliest possible convienence.

it sounds like you have now got a station and want to challenge the owning faction.

No, we own no stations in the system.

Not quite right. Most of us would say 60% is sufficient. Though more is usually better, it's best to stay below 75% as your faction could go into expansion before the conflict for control starts.

We have been over 60% since the 2 May and over 70% since 4 May

Hi Limo
One of us is guilty of not reading my post\their post

Hopefully I said...

Note the 'When starting out'

If you want to force the owning faction into a dispute ie war\election and you do not own a station, then get that influence over 70% preferably 75%.

We will aim to boost over 75% and hold it there then until current states clear.

What would have triggered the pending civil unrest state for our faction though? Like I said, we have no station yet :/
Can we reverse this or is it better to ride it out?

 

[Jane Turner]

The controlling faction must have a blocking state - find it and end it!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-Best-Current-Thinking?p=6665897#post6665897

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

We have been over 60% since the 2 May and over 70% since 4 May

Check the faction status summary in the news on one of the station in the system. You'll find the Gold Brotherhood is probably locked in a war in another system (the "None" state is often a sign that a faction is in a conflict somewhere else) - I'm guessing HIP 20480, as they are sitting on 1%. Your group should finish the war - either way is fine, you just need to get one side 5% higher then the other. Otherwise the war could last weeks.

edit - I guessed the wrong system:

They are losing the war by about 13%, so it should be over soon.

2nd edit - and don't raise your influence any more, or you'll expand before you get into a civil war for control.

 

[glojo]

Check the faction status summary in the news on one of the station in the system. You'll find the Gold Brotherhood is probably locked in a war in another system (the "None" state is often a sign that a faction is in a conflict somewhere else) - I'm guessing HIP 20480, as they are sitting on 1%. Your group should finish the war - either way is fine, you just need to get one side 5% higher then the other. Otherwise the war could last weeks.

edit - I guessed the wrong system:


They are losing the war by about 13%, so it should be over soon.

2nd edit - and don't raise your influence any more, or you'll expand before you get into a civil war for control.

Limo,
If you do not own a station of any type, you have just started playing as a group, then there is NO way you will go into expansion. I hate saying this but you are plain wrong.

Regarding being over 70 or 75% then you will definitely force the owning faction to go to war\election with you.

Use Inara or similar software, look up the minor faction you want to challenge and see where they are at war\election. It should also tell you when you land at their station. Just look up the Galnet gossip regarding all the minor factions

Civil Unrest can be caused by fighting too many conflicts, or a few other reasons, I would suggest that a war or election will trump that civil unrest but if you want, please pm me the location you are discussing and I will have a quick peep. We only have 24 systems to look after and there are definitely more knowledgeable folk than me regarding this BGS
but if Limo was correct, you would possibly have been pending expansion a good few days ago?? (One of us is plain wrong and I am NOT perfect)

 

[Jane Turner]

Limo,
If you do not own a station of any type, you have just started playing as a group, then there is NO way you will go into expansion. I hate saying this but you are plain wrong.

Regarding being over 70 or 75% then you will definitely force the owning faction to go to war\election with you.

Use Inara or similar software, look up the minor faction you want to challenge and see where they are at war\election. It should also tell you when you land at their station. Just look up the Galnet gossip regarding all the minor factions

Civil Unrest can be caused by fighting too many conflicts, or a few other reasons, I would suggest that a war or election will trump that civil unrest but if you want, please pm me the location you are discussing and I will have a quick peep. We only have 24 systems to look after and there are definitely more knowledgeable folk than me regarding this BGS
but if Limo was correct, you would possibly have been pending expansion a good few days ago?? (One of us is plain wrong and I am NOT perfect)

He is right re it being entirely possible to get an expansion without owning an asset

 

[Jmanis]

He is right re it being entirely possible to get an expansion without owning an asset

+1. On several occasions I've tried to wrest control by getting over 60-65% influence, not realising the owning faction is in a conflict elsewhere, and triggered expansion with no asset ownership in system when I've gone over 75%.

 

[glojo]

+1. On several occasions I've tried to wrest control by getting over 60-65% influence, not realising the owning faction is in a conflict elsewhere, and triggered expansion with no asset ownership in system when I've gone over 75%.

This is NOT a case of no asset in a system. We all know and accept we might not need assets in a specific system to go into expansion.

We are solely and I must repeat solely talking about a brand new minor faction being placed in a system.

They enter that system with possibly 8% influence.

They have NO presence in any other system NONE, zero, zilch. This is a new group.

My experience and countless other new player groups is that you have two choices

1. Choice (a) You match influence with the weakest faction that owns a station.. You fight for that station, win it and then move onto the next weakest

2. Choice (b) is what I am hoping, we are discussing here. The new playergroup wants immediate control of the system they chose when wanting to become a player faction.

Acme Carriage owns the system, they have the main station. The owning faction also have a presence in several systems, they are currently in election in one of these locations plus their influence is close to other factions in those other systems.

If our new human group can get I believe 75% or it MIGHT only be 70%, they will go to the top of the queue for challenging Acme Carriage, they will NOT go into expansion. If this was the case why haven't they go into your suggested expansion?

Please do not get confused with player factions that already have a base, our new player is only just starting out and this confusing advice is not helpful.

I cannot recall when the devs altered the rules regarding new player factions being inserted into the game as when it first started, we were given the main station, plus 80% influence, but then they changed this and we joined our system of choice without any station and just 8% influence. This is I believe how it has remained but do stand to be corrected and clearly the op can correct me if they suddenly go into expansion?/

 

[Ian Doncaster]

We are solely and I must repeat solely talking about a brand new minor faction being placed in a system.

They enter that system with possibly 8% influence.

They have NO presence in any other system NONE, zero, zilch. This is a new group.

Counter-example, then.

In the Ratraii system, two factions were added when the system was created.
1) Colonia Cooperative, which owned - at the time - the only asset in the system, the Colonia Dream station ... and has since become owner of the Bonestell Point and Exodus Reach outposts as they were later added to the system. Starting influence, 60%.

2) Brian's Thugs, who have no assets in the system and never had, starting influence 40%.

Since then, Brian's Thugs - without *ever* taking control of an asset [1] - have expanded into not one but *nine* other systems [2], at times that Colonia Cooperative was in a War elsewhere and therefore unable to stop them reaching 75% influence.


It's *extremely likely* that a new faction reaching 75% in its first system will have managed to match influences with a suitable conflict target on its way up, or reach 60% while the controlling faction is not already in a conflict, and so get a fight before it expands. But, if the controlling faction is locked in a conflict elsewhere, and the new faction manages to reach 75% before the controlling faction gets out of that conflict, they can expand without ever having to fight within the system.



[1] In this case, they literally *can't* - the system is locked to prevent conflicts occurring in it. But the same can and does happen in more normal systems.
[2] And been kicked back out of seven of them, of course...

 

[glojo]

Counter-example, then.

In the Ratraii system, two factions were added when the system was created.
1) Colonia Cooperative, which owned - at the time - the only asset in the system, the Colonia Dream station ... and has since become owner of the Bonestell Point and Exodus Reach outposts as they were later added to the system. Starting influence, 60%.

2) Brian's Thugs, who have no assets in the system and never had, starting influence 40%.

Since then, Brian's Thugs - without *ever* taking control of an asset [1] - have expanded into not one but *nine* other systems [2], at times that Colonia Cooperative was in a War elsewhere and therefore unable to stop them reaching 75% influence.


It's *extremely likely* that a new faction reaching 75% in its first system will have managed to match influences with a suitable conflict target on its way up, or reach 60% while the controlling faction is not already in a conflict, and so get a fight before it expands. But, if the controlling faction is locked in a conflict elsewhere, and the new faction manages to reach 75% before the controlling faction gets out of that conflict, they can expand without ever having to fight within the system.



[1] In this case, they literally *can't* - the system is locked to prevent conflicts occurring in it. But the same can and does happen in more normal systems.
[2] And been kicked back out of seven of them, of course...

The Colonia system is way outside my field of knowledge and whilst we were all invited to move up there, we declined.

Are we talking about a new human player faction that started their career in Colonia or did they have a base here in 'the bubble'

the proof of this discussion is staring us in the face as the OP has not gone into expansion. I can definitely recall the devs posting what I am repeating

 

[KoteBR]

Hello everyone,

I'm the leader of Azul Corporation in-game player minor faction. We now control the Heidubres System, and we are with 77%. When we reached 75%, we were warned that we would expand in a few dways (Pending State: Expansion). Also, we were fighting to get control over mcc 741, with another faction and we started and Election state there. We were pending expansion in Heidubres and we currently in Elections in MCC 741. However, I logged in just to find out that, for some reason, our Expansion Pending state just disappeared. Can you guys explain why that happened? Can an expansion jut stop from happening like that? Can we trigger again?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

The Colonia system is way outside my field of knowledge and whilst we were all invited to move up there, we declined.

Are we talking about a new human player faction that started their career in Colonia or did they have a base here in 'the bubble'

In this case, both the factions in the system are NPC factions. But it wouldn't matter - no Colonia faction has any in-game link to bubble factions, even if they're managed by the same people, and the fundamental rules of the BGS are identical in both places.

the proof of this discussion is staring us in the face as the OP has not gone into expansion. I can definitely recall the devs posting what I am repeating

The OP's faction hasn't yet exceeded 75%, though - looking at EDSM, they were on 74.8% on Monday, and 74.2% on Tuesday, so not quite enough.

If they exceed 75% and still don't go into expansion, then there may be questions to ask about why, but for now, everything seems normal.

Can you guys explain why that happened? Can an expansion jut stop from happening like that? Can we trigger again?

If both an expansion and an election/war go live on the same day, the expansion is lost. (This is the only way to stop an expansion from happening, and is occasionally useful)

You can get another one after the election is over.

 

[Patau82]

If both an expansion and an election/war go live on the same day, the expansion is lost. (This is the only way to stop an expansion from happening, and is occasionally useful)

You can get another one after the election is over.

I was told that since 3.0 this is no longer the case? No idea if that is right and dont really want to test it just in case
Can anyone confirm expansion is still canceled when conflict starts on the same day?

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Limo,
If you do not own a station of any type, you have just started playing as a group, then there is NO way you will go into expansion. I hate saying this but you are plain wrong.

Regarding being over 70 or 75% then you will definitely force the owning faction to go to war\election with you.

Use Inara or similar software, look up the minor faction you want to challenge and see where they are at war\election. It should also tell you when you land at their station. Just look up the Galnet gossip regarding all the minor factions

Civil Unrest can be caused by fighting too many conflicts, or a few other reasons, I would suggest that a war or election will trump that civil unrest but if you want, please pm me the location you are discussing and I will have a quick peep. We only have 24 systems to look after and there are definitely more knowledgeable folk than me regarding this BGS
but if Limo was correct, you would possibly have been pending expansion a good few days ago?? (One of us is plain wrong and I am NOT perfect)

Nothing special about newly placed player factions. They are just another minor faction in the game. They can and do go into expansion without owning assets.

Inara and other 3rd party tools aren't any use at all where there is little player traffic. They only work by players visiting while running their update software. The war in question doesn't display, even gushaines' home system is two days out of date.
The station news has a purpose. It's far more reliable than Inara or EDDB.

You seem stuck on 70% for a coup. It takes 60%. It's a common mistake - I used to think it too. But the evidence clearly points towards 60% as the trigger. More doesn't hurt, unless you accidentally go into expansion.

Civil unrest is not caused by fighting conflicts. You can only ever have one state for a faction at a time (only one exception, investment can coexist with another state). Civil unrest is caused by certain missions, and murder of civilian ships.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

The OP's faction hasn't yet exceeded 75%, though - looking at EDSM, they were on 74.8% on Monday, and 74.2% on Tuesday, so not quite enough.

They were 74.5% last night. Since EDDB is two days out of date there, I checked the only truly reliable way - by going there in the game.

 

[MottiKhan]

I was told that since 3.0 this is no longer the case? No idea if that is right and dont really want to test it just in case
Can anyone confirm expansion is still canceled when conflict starts on the same day?

I cancelled 2 expansions after 3.0 dropped. One was by war and the other election going active on the same day as the expansion. There have been at least two updates since 3.0 though.

 

[Patau82]

I cancelled 2 expansions after 3.0 dropped. One was by war and the other election going active on the same day as the expansion. There have been at least two updates since 3.0 though.

Thanks, looked back an it was 2.4 i was told it was changed looks like that was wrong!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

To prove that a player faction without any assets can go into expansion before a conflict:

 

[Syrelai]

A question if I may, with the BGS wizards that be... I've discovered through certain channels that a certain couple of players may or may not have turned in 160 systems worth of exploration data in one day to turn an influence gain of 12-15% in one day in a system with a population of 2.5 million. Not much else is known, like the state of the influenced faction, but I do understand there seems to be a "bucket" to fill per day.

Is there any resource available that might help me guesstimate how many systems I should turn in for maximum influence gain in a day, only basing on population count of that system?

I fully understand the results may vary, in regards to how much of a swing of influence it gives, wether it be from faction states, other player interactions, system factions, and the like... but I'm more concerned with gaining maximum effectiveness over a period of time with not wasting system data being turned in.

I have also heard that the value of that data does make a marginal difference. I'm not too concerned with that aspect, but it may play a variable.

I do also understand that this is one of those "Black box" questions. I appreciate your time, and have a wonderful day.

 

[Mrjupp]

That's about right. Each player dropping a few million per system can lift influence by about 5% each so two players doing so will boost the influence that much. However, the influence needs to start at a lower threshold as there are diminishing returns, the higher the influence becomes.

*note* sell per system and not per page.

 

[Sentenza]

A question if I may, with the BGS wizards that be... I've discovered through certain channels that a certain couple of players may or may not have turned in 160 systems worth of exploration data in one day to turn an influence gain of 12-15% in one day in a system with a population of 2.5 million. Not much else is known, like the state of the influenced faction, but I do understand there seems to be a "bucket" to fill per day.

Is there any resource available that might help me guesstimate how many systems I should turn in for maximum influence gain in a day, only basing on population count of that system?

I fully understand the results may vary, in regards to how much of a swing of influence it gives, wether it be from faction states, other player interactions, system factions, and the like... but I'm more concerned with gaining maximum effectiveness over a period of time with not wasting system data being turned in.

I have also heard that the value of that data does make a marginal difference. I'm not too concerned with that aspect, but it may play a variable.

I do also understand that this is one of those "Black box" questions. I appreciate your time, and have a wonderful day.

From experience, go for 50, maybe 60 systems per day. More than that is wasted.