Frontier be brave: Complete shield redesign needed

[babelfisch]

Disclaimer:

First, I know that this is not going to happen. Some people will not like it and Frontier will never undertake drastic changes so long after release, which is a shame in my opinion.


Goals:

Anyway, I believe the shield system needs a serious redesign. The current approach with all the buffs that create mega shields and the shields down = end of combat behaviour needs to go, let's have something fun instead. The current system encourages boring farming in PvE and cowardly retreats in PvP. Combat needs to be more dynamic, more tension, the decision if I stay or run shouldn't be made on shields alone.


Suggestions:

- All ships come with weak shields as core modules. You can't equip ships without shields anymore. You'll get a new module slot for that, so those who currently fly without shields will not suffer from it. Obviously they can still be disabled for energy/heat/stealth reasons. Also you can still upgrade and engineer your shields.

- Shields no longer absorb 100% of the inflicted damage unless they are at 100% health . Some damage will always bleed through to your hull. The amount of hull damage varies for different weapon types and mods, and will increase the lower your shields get. On the other hand your shields never drop completely and always provide some basic protection.

- This also means you will see malfunctions more often.

- Pips to shields will increase hull bleeding protection.

- Don't know if it's currently possible but you would be able to launch repair limpets during combat. Frag cannons and splash damage weapon types are great to shoot them down.

- Shield boosters, SCBs, etc. basically still work the same way they do know but are less effective due to damage bleeding.


That about covers it. I hope I didn't forget to mention something important. I know that many people will not like it because it changes their current META or they don't like changes being made to their game. But I believe this system would make combat way more dynamic, add a completely new strategic layer and solves all issues the current system has. I'd say it would be worth to annoy some people for the greater good.

Thoughts?

 

[GunnerBill]

Why have shields at all?

It’s just a damage buffer which could just as easily be engineered MRP/HRP/Armour.

So I agree let’s reset the deck.

 

[babelfisch]

Why have shields at all?

It’s just a damage buffer which could just as easily be engineered MRP/HRP/Armour.

So I agree let’s reset the deck.

The idea would be that you are still able to spend a reasonable amount of time in a RES if you choose your enemies wisely. If your shields never drop below 75% or something the hull damage wouldn't be so bad that you need to limp back to a station every 10 minutes. But it would also mean you are no longer able to fight indefinitely.

 

[Arthur Shappey]

Changing the rules doesn't really change the game. You will still have all the same PvP behaviours with just differing boundaries of when they kick-in. And when I say differing I mean between 0.25 and 0.5 of a second after the fight has started...

 

[Powderpanic]

Let us just remove ALL engineering!

Perma Boost
HRP Stacking
Daft Boost Speeds
Shield Stacking
Resistance Stacking
Stupid Effects of Weapons

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[babelfisch]

Changing the rules doesn't really change the game. You will still have all the same PvP behaviours with just differing boundaries of when they kick-in. And when I say differing I mean between 0.25 and 0.5 of a second after the fight has started...

If PvPerz are really so low they are doomed.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I'd rather have the opposite, in that shields are an exotic luxury that come with downsides, and that hulltanks have profound advantages in certain situations.

I'd:

x2 power requirements for shield boosters

make shields weaker

Make heat weapons generate more heat on target based on boosters- so an x8 boosted shield generates x8 the heat

Make stealth mechanics pay for hull tanks (and makes having a high sensor grade more important as well, not just D D D D D D D all the time).

Make pure giant shields a gamble just as having no shield is a gamble

 

[[VR] Deggial]

What shall I say?

I opted for damage-bleeding through shields already a long, long time ago and hence your suggestion is preaching to the convertet - at least in respect to me.

You elaborated your suggestion in good detail and I strongly support it hereby!

(As with current core modules, slots for shields could come in different sizes, adding further ballancing opportunities to ships. But I guess, this detail was a given in your proposal anyway.)

 

[Shanaeri]

Since the vast majority of players wake out when their shields drop, all nerfing shields will do is decrease the amount of time players spend doing stuff and increase the amount of time waiting for shields to regen again.

It would not, and will never increase difficulty it will just increase the annoyance.

The answer is more varied NPC ship builds, in different places with better counters. In no other online game does the mobs have the same tactics, same loadout and same skill set. Mix it up and make the players think about their ship builds.

 

[Hooplah]

I could write a page on how the shields have been refined over the years and work as desired. Or one could just google many of them on the Forum. There will always be compromise between the three modes of play. Maybe the 'greater good' has already been resolved for the most players and those who complain about shielding for their personal combat style of game play aren't in the 'greater good' group. Given there are weapons that will take out any shields a pilot could become proficient with them.

 

[babelfisch]

Since the vast majority of players wake out when their shields drop, all nerfing shields will do is decrease the amount of time players spend doing stuff and increase the amount of time waiting for shields to regen again.

It would not, and will never increase difficulty it will just increase the annoyance.

The answer is more varied NPC ship builds, in different places with better counters. In no other online game does the mobs have the same tactics, same loadout and same skill set. Mix it up and make the players think about their ship builds.

I played over 10 years of very competitive PvP in Counter-Strike and people never left the game just because they lost some health points. Bear in mind that the proposal would always allow a change in the outcome of the battle, unlike now where loosing shields is basically a death sentence. If people really would leave after 2-3 seconds I guess combat is not for them.

 

[Vardaugas]

So shield should basically start acting like module reinforcement for the hull, absorbing only a certain percentage of damage up until they are used up. The resistances for shields would then no longer a damage negation but the amount of damage hitting the shield while everything else hits the hull (and the resistances there). Maybe to compensate the increased amount of hull hits, the reinforcement modifier on armor and hull reinforcement also gets factored into the integrity of module reinforcements. Might have to add some base resistances to bigger sized shields to give them more validity to use.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Let us just remove ALL engineering!

Perma Boost
HRP Stacking
Daft Boost Speeds
Shield Stacking
Resistance Stacking
Stupid Effects of Weapons



Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

Yeah!

Disclaimer:

First, I know that this is not going to happen. Some people will not like it and Frontier will never undertake drastic changes so long after release, which is a shame in my opinion.


Goals:

Anyway, I believe the shield system needs a serious redesign. The current approach with all the buffs that create mega shields and the shields down = end of combat behaviour needs to go, let's have something fun instead. The current system encourages boring farming in PvE and cowardly retreats in PvP. Combat needs to be more dynamic, more tension, the decision if I stay or run shouldn't be made on shields alone.


Suggestions:

- All ships come with weak shields as core modules. You can't equip ships without shields anymore. You'll get a new module slot for that, so those who currently fly without shields will not suffer from it. Obviously they can still be disabled for energy/heat/stealth reasons. Also you can still upgrade and engineer your shields.

- Shields no longer absorb 100% of the inflicted damage unless they are at 100% health . Some damage will always bleed through to your hull. The amount of hull damage varies for different weapon types and mods, and will increase the lower your shields get. On the other hand your shields never drop completely and always provide some basic protection.

- This also means you will see malfunctions more often.

- Pips to shields will increase hull bleeding protection.

- Don't know if it's currently possible but you would be able to launch repair limpets during combat. Frag cannons and splash damage weapon types are great to shoot them down.

- Shield boosters, SCBs, etc. basically still work the same way they do know but are less effective due to damage bleeding.


That about covers it. I hope I didn't forget to mention something important. I know that many people will not like it because it changes their current META or they don't like changes being made to their game. But I believe this system would make combat way more dynamic, add a completely new strategic layer and solves all issues the current system has. I'd say it would be worth to annoy some people for the greater good.

Thoughts?

I like it, apart from the engineering part.

 

[babelfisch]

Yeah!



I like it, apart from the engineering part.

Well I don't like it either, but it's part of the game and while I welcome drastic changes I can't see it being removed from the game. On the other hand I can't see my proposal being implemented either... Fair enough

 

[Shanaeri]

I played over 10 years of very competitive PvP in Counter-Strike and people never left the game just because they lost some health points. Bear in mind that the proposal would always allow a change in the outcome of the battle, unlike now where loosing shields is basically a death sentence. If people really would leave after 2-3 seconds I guess combat is not for them.

Different game, different mindset. Apples != Oranges. E.g In GTA5, no one cares if you get blown up, crash your car, the same player in elite can treat their ship and the way they play with kids gloves.

 

[Jaiotu]

In Elite: Legacy by Michael Brooks I think I remember a passage where one of the characters diverted power from the forward shields to boost power to the rear shields. If you want to redesign shields then I'd like to see something like that implemented for us Brave Sir Robins.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I think the overall problem is that Internal modules just don't have enough hit points - even if you harden them with engineers, they are pretty attrocious and not balanced at all.

 

[Frenotx]

I would love if FDev did something in this direction. The absolute nature of shields causes a lot of balance headaches.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

I think the overall problem is that Internal modules just don't have enough hit points - even if you harden them with engineers, they are pretty attrocious and not balanced at all.

Well, this is just a matter of balance - a balance that doesn't matter currently, as those internal modules never are in danger when fleeing before shield-drop.

Babelfisch's suggestion would make engineering a much more interesting decision, as we would need to weight stat increases (damage, output, speed, ...) against durability. Really, does anybody even consider those integrity blueprints? (Well, I honestly don't know about PvP in hull tank/stealth ships. But I guess, even those guys have different priorities.)
Additionally, the proposed changes would make MRPs and HRPs more interesting for non-hul-tankers (will say: EvP ships).

 

[orange_apecs]

I've said this somewhere before (might have been a YouTube comment).
Go fight Thargoids solo (Basilisk and Medusa) and tell me you don't need big shields and hull tanks. So why nerf them for the few players that want to pew pew each other.