Not just Powerplay actions should be restricted to Open!

[babelfisch]

Just wait until they find out that the block function still allows us to a avoid powerplay opposition...
And different time zones.
And different platforms.
And my firewall.
And my port settings.
And instancing in general.

 

[mbar]

So when do all these open v solo threads get merged into the hotel California? Community manager? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Bryan K]

Just wait until they find out that the block function still allows us to a avoid powerplay opposition...
And different time zones.
And different platforms.
And my firewall.
And my port settings.
And instancing in general.

I doubt anyone even notices this. Myself and others have been trying to tell people that since yesterday. I was hoping it would spark outrage, but alas, no salt so far.

 

[Dbrn47]

No, power play only in open.

I see the BGS as more of a competitive pve side game while PP is the organized PvP the game needs for some of the player base. I love CQC and Power Play based PvP and absolutely abore the mindless PvP that goes on in open.

With PP PvP there are objectives and that makes the PvP farm more diverse and limits how meta builds can be because of how PP mechanics work.

This is a good thing to move PP to open. Not so much for other stuff.

You can see it that way, but if you ever decide try to move the BGS where people have PP bonuses while you don't, it'll be pretty clear that moving PP to open essentially moves the BGS to open, at least in those areas of influence. You won't be able to compete with +100% influence bonuses or whatever crazy % bonuses to bounties ALD gets.

Just wait until they find out that the block function still allows us to a avoid powerplay opposition...
And different time zones.
And different platforms.
And my firewall.
And my port settings.
And instancing in general.

Yea, I brought that up outside the forum, was generally shrugged at since the joy of the idea meant more than the actual implications or limitations. It's a weird one that's certain to be messy.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Just wait until they find out that the block function still allows us to a avoid powerplay opposition...
And different time zones.
And different platforms.
And my firewall.
And my port settings.
And instancing in general.

Well seen

 

[Nerth]

Oh I have integrity - and my saying "I don't beleive you" does not call that into question.

So, here's another question: Were you online 24/7 and did you take part in every action ever made, and see every report and oversee every change in PP and were able to correlate each PP change to a specific action?

I know the answer - it's no. Regardless of your own personal integrity, just becasue you didn't hear about it, doesn't mean it NEVER happened, and you can vouchsafe as much as you like, but you can PROVE, nothing.

Humans cut corners when no-ones looking and it'll never be seen, and in a game where "it doesn't really matter" doubly so.

You can only vouch for you, and no-one else, because you weren't there.

Sorry bud, but that's just how it is.

Hello, senior leader of Azrael’s former faction here (I am admin and was until a few weeks ago the deputy Wing Commander). I can categorically state that everything he says about us is accurate. Anything done offensively to another player group is done exclusively in Open.

The stigma among player groups to act in PG/Solo is huge - and for good reason.

 

[Space Dandy]

Better - Let's split Elite into two separate games - one that entirely Open Only that the Open Only players can play, and one without Open that everyone else can play.
Elite: Open Only will only connect to Elite: Open Only, and Elite: Everyone Else will only connect to Everyone Else. Each can have its own BGS and neither is more "Official" than the other. Accounts do not transfer between the two, so once you pick one, that's where you stay.

Make it so FD!

Oh and also lets us know which makes you more money.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You can see it that way, but if you ever decide try to move the BGS where people have PP bonuses while you don't, it'll be pretty clear that moving PP to open essentially moves the BGS to open, at least in those areas of influence. You won't be able to compete with +100% influence bonuses or whatever crazy % bonuses to bounties ALD gets.

Which is something that needs to change if it is to happen.

Hello, senior leader of Azrael’s former faction here (I am admin and was until a few weeks ago the deputy Wing Commander). I can categorically state that everything he says about us is accurate. Anything done offensively to another player group is done exclusively in Open.

The stigma among player groups to act in PG/Solo is huge - and for good reason.

There shouldn't be any stigma as the BGS is not designed for direct PvP and never was.

 

[Abil Midena]

...There shouldn't be any stigma as the BGS is not designed for direct PvP and never was.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't "designed" for PVP, in the reality where we exist today, that's how people who are aware of the BGS use it. If you're going to dismiss that, then you're dismissing the hundreds of PMF's out there.

 

[SnowyNI]

I... I can't tell. Try a coherent sentence, then I'll let you know. All I can really parse is that you're one of the people that likes to stereotype people because they enjoy interaction with others that doesn't agree with your vision.

Lol. No thanks, nice try though!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It doesn't matter if it wasn't "designed" for PVP, in the reality where we exist today, that's how people who are aware of the BGS use it. If you're going to dismiss that, then you're dismissing the hundreds of PMF's out there.

Nope. That's how you use it and want others to use and if they don't you stigmatize them for playing the game in a completely legitimate way.

You are basically trying to force people into playing the game the way you want.

That is just wrong in ever sense of the word. Basically bullying people to do something your way.

 

[Abil Midena]

Nope. That's how you use it and want others to use and if they don't you stigmatize them for playing the game in a completely legitimate way.

You are basically trying to force people into playing the game the way you want.

That is just wrong in ever sense of the word. Basically bullying people to do something your way.

Say what? Where did you pull that from?

I'm not trying to force anybody to do anything. And there are plenty of people that 'play' the BGS, including you, right? So what are you on about?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Say what? Where did you pull that from?

I'm not trying to force anybody to do anything. And there are plenty of people that 'play' the BGS, including you, right? So what are you on about?

You said it yourself. You stigmitise people for doing th BGS in PG or solo. Those are your words are they not?

 

[Taimaru]

I don't have a problem with Powerplay going to Open mode only (it does make sense), however, I disagree with other features such as BGS and CG's going Open mode only.

If we're going to start removing features from the Solo/PG modes, how about to make it fair, we remove a feature from Open mode? I suggest PvP capability is removed from Open mode unless you're pledged to a Power so only pledged players can shoot other pledged players.

 

[Abil Midena]

You said it yourself. You stigmitise people for doing th BGS in PG or solo. Those are your words are they not?

No. You are 180 out, as they say. Here is what I have been saying since May 2016...

At that time, Sandro suggested implementing a "significant bonus" for PP actions done in Open.

I created a thread in DD because his post was tucked away in PP thread that doesn't get much traffic, and I wanted the larger audience to see it because I thought it would lead to inevitable changes that would impact everyone, not just PP folks. My thread is here (Get a snickers, it's 2000+ posts long): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...or-playing-in-OPEN-under-consideration-for-PP

My concern then, as it is now, is that if Sandro follows his logic, that PP being PVP, it needs an Open only bonus, or as he now is implementing, Open only, period, then he MUST do the same for the BGS. I made that clear then, and I've posted the same in the FFF yesterday.

This is my concern. Some call it a 'slippery slope' or a 'narrow edge of the wedge', but I think it much worse than that...

Follow me here...MB said "all modes are an equally valid choice" in 2015, but Sandro has suggested 2 yrs ago in March 2016 to add "significant open only bonus" to PP. Did Sandro agree or think the modes are equal choices? Nope. Not only that, here he is again, more than doubling down on his idea by now saying not just a bonus, but "Only Open for PP". His reason? "Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible." This is basically saying, "people were whining, so we're changing things to accommodate them".

Ok, now fast forward to the day after the open only is implemented for PP. And remember all the people in the focused feedback thread that are ALREADY clamoring for Open Only BGS. Add intensified whining with the support of now being able to say "...but, but, you made PP open only, so now do it for the BGS", and "the BGS is pvp centric because you have to contend with other players that 'do stuff' to support their MF that is in the same system as where you are trying to BGS" (this part is true), and you have your answer. Add in that we're now in the 'beyond' series, where they devoting time to changing things already in the game.

What does FD do? Simple. They make BGS open only as well. You can't avoid that logic. And at that time, you can give up on BGS work, unless you fly a fully engineered PKP machine 100% of the time, and are a skilled PKPer, since you will now be FORCED to play in open if you want to BGS.

So you should be able to see what I am saying, and why. Sandro is locking himself and FD into making changes that will force them to follow PP changes with BGS changes. This what I'm trying to get them to see and avoid. His only "out" is if he says, 'well, I'm defying my logic today, and also reversing what I decided yesterday, so the BGS will remain available and be impacted by all modes, forever". He also claims he won't make the BGS Open only, but as I've shown above, that's claim is not credible.

If that's not clear enough, there's not much else I can do.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No. You are 180 out, as they say. Here is what I have been saying since May 2016...

At that time, Sandro suggested implementing a "significant bonus" for PP actions done in Open.

I created a thread in DD because his post was tucked away in PP thread that doesn't get much traffic, and I wanted the larger audience to see it because I thought it would lead to inevitable changes that would impact everyone, not just PP folks. My thread is here (Get a snickers, it's 2000+ posts long): https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...or-playing-in-OPEN-under-consideration-for-PP

My concern then, as it is now, is that if Sandro follows his logic, that PP being PVP, it needs an Open only bonus, or as he now is implementing, Open only, period, then he MUST do the same for the BGS. I made that clear then, and I've posted the same in the FFF yesterday.

This is my concern. Some call it a 'slippery slope' or a 'narrow edge of the wedge', but I think it much worse than that...

Follow me here...MB said "all modes are an equally valid choice" in 2015, but Sandro has suggested 2 yrs ago in March 2016 to add "significant open only bonus" to PP. Did Sandro agree or think the modes are equal choices? Nope. Not only that, here he is again, more than doubling down on his idea by now saying not just a bonus, but "Only Open for PP". His reason? "Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible." This is basically saying, "people were whining, so we're changing things to accommodate them".

Ok, now fast forward to the day after the open only is implemented for PP. And remember all the people in the focused feedback thread that are ALREADY clamoring for Open Only BGS. Add intensified whining with the support of now being able to say "...but, but, you made PP open only, so now do it for the BGS", and "the BGS is pvp centric because you have to contend with other players that 'do stuff' to support their MF that is in the same system as where you are trying to BGS" (this part is true), and you have your answer. Add in that we're now in the 'beyond' series, where they devoting time to changing things already in the game.

What does FD do? Simple. They make BGS open only as well. You can't avoid that logic. And at that time, you can give up on BGS work, unless you fly a fully engineered PKP machine 100% of the time, and are a skilled PKPer, since you will now be FORCED to play in open if you want to BGS.

So you should be able to see what I am saying, and why. Sandro is locking himself and FD into making changes that will force them to follow PP changes with BGS changes. This what I'm trying to get them to see and avoid. His only "out" is if he says, 'well, I'm defying my logic today, and also reversing what I decided yesterday, so the BGS will remain available and be impacted by all modes, forever". He also claims he won't make the BGS Open only, but as I've shown above, that's claim is not credible.

If that's not clear enough, there's not much else I can do.

The BGS is not a PvP battleground, is not designed as one and still isn't one. Just because some people try to shoe horn it into That, still doesn't make it so.

If it became open only, it would completely ruin the game in every way. Powerplay is designed specifically for that gameplay, use it if that is what you want.

PvP in the BGS is the worst way to influence factions.

So no, it won't happen. The BGS and the game will die a quick death if the BGS is open only having vast areas of the game static until a player faction in open rocks up would make the game utter crap.

The BGS is there to provide a PvE environment that is dynamically changed by the players. You remove a large part of the player base it becomes a lesser thing.

Powerplay is designed from the ground up to be done with PvP and doesn't make sense for it to be in solo or private groups.

I am all for PP to be open only with some changes, but moving the main PvE component to open only will be the death of the game. It would be monumentally stupid for FDev to do that, so I can't see it happening.

 

[Robert Maynard]

My concern then, as it is now, is that if Sandro follows his logic, that PP being PVP, it needs an Open only bonus, or as he now is implementing, Open only, period, then he MUST do the same for the BGS. I made that clear then, and I've posted the same in the FFF yesterday.

The post you quoted was not the only one from that time that Sandro made:

Hello Commanders!

A couple of clarifications:

* This change, which remember is nothing more than a suggestion at this point, would have no effect on personal gain. It would affect success values for expansion, fortification and undermining only, not the merits you earned.

* It does not, and is not, meant to be a panacea to make the actual activities of Powerplay better. It's best to think of it as activity agnostic. That's not to say that we don't want to improve the activities (we do!), just that this is not aimed at that.

* The reason this benefit would only apply to Open as opposed to in Private Groups is fairly clear I think: we have no way to control distribution in Private Groups. Folk could start a Private Group where everyone was pledged to a single power. This would effectively then be Solo in terms of dealing with the potential threat of other Commanders.

* I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay because Powerplay is the only aspect of the game that explicitly uses the concept of adversarial multiplayer, as opposed to the more vague ways that minor factions operate.

Hope this info helps.

 

[jasonbirder]

Hello Commanders!

A couple of clarifications:

* I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay (AT THIS TIME)

Hope this info helps.

Amended for clarification

 

[UmbraRex]

Sandro has pretty much covered this already

And you believe him?

I got some beachfront property I need to unload.

In Arizona. Lots of sand *nods

 

[Abil Midena]

The BGS is not a PvP battleground, is not designed as one and still isn't one. Just because some people try to shoe horn it into That, still doesn't make it so.

If it became open only, it would completely ruin the game in every way. Powerplay is designed specifically for that gameplay, use it if that is what you want.

PvP in the BGS is the worst way to influence factions.

So no, it won't happen. The BGS and the game will die a quick death if the BGS is open only having vast areas of the game static until a player faction in open rocks up would make the game utter crap.

The BGS is there to provide a PvE environment that is dynamically changed by the players. You remove a large part of the player base it becomes a lesser thing.

Powerplay is designed from the ground up to be done with PvP and doesn't make sense for it to be in solo or private groups.

I am all for PP to be open only with some changes, but moving the main PvE component to open only will be the death of the game. It would be monumentally stupid for FDev to do that, so I can't see it happening.

So we agree then. Good.

I'm not the one that needs convincing though. If you haven't done so already, post what you've said in the FFF.

Also, don't confuse PVP with PKP. The BGS and PP are both PVP, and neither is particularly rewarding of PKP. Going open only for one or both isn't really going to change that.