Sterling MH
Banned
If it was empty, how come all those people salty over solo changing their galaxy?
Change My Mind
- Thread starter Rinzler o7o7o7
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If it was empty, how come all those people salty over solo changing their galaxy?
so no solo/pg 5c, prep, fort and uming. Sounds like a huge change. Definitely not a neutral change.
So youre gonna tell me that pp is the most broken thing in pp, second only to cqc, but it doesnt need dev time. That out of 5k avg players a neglible % play powerplay, most likely due to the first point you made about it being broken, and it doesnt need dev time. And then youre gonna tell me solo/pg is a legit way of doing it when fdev just made a post about how those modes are making powerplay not function as intended, which is almost certainly a contributing factor to the first and second points you made if not the cause.
And after saying all that, youre gonna contradict yourself and say pp doesnt need dev time.
You dont have an argument. You are just grasping at straws to justify an emotional plea you feel you need to express against open only pp. Even though all your points support open only pp.
Pretty sure a lot of us argued that it should have been open when FDev introduced it. BTW, making it open only will change nothing about how crap a game mode it still is.
The exact same people playing now will still be there. The ones that solo won't so what are we gaining from all of this?
Sterling MH
Banned
You're getting intestate mixed up with prostate.
what we gain is being able to counter undermining, fortifying and 5c..
Sterling MH
Banned
You can already do that. Just not against people solo and not by pewpew.
Maybe it was just the bending over that did it.
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Undermining - accomplished by blowing up ships belonging to the power you wish to Undermine. These can, and often are, other player ships, but can also be NPC's. You can blow up NPC's in any mode, including Solo. If you happen to notice Undermining efforts increasing, it means someone's killing your people. It is offset by Fortifying.
Fortifying - accomplished by hauling power-specific goods. Likewise, can be accomplished in any mode.
Preparation - accomplished by hauling power-specific goods, also requires the expenditure of CC.
I counter with a question of my own:
What cannot be done in any mode already to offset the efforts of Undermining, Fortification or Preparation?
You might think that Fortification or Undermining could be stopped or slowed simply by maintaining a presence in a system, however... Let's look at this from a purely Open-Only perspective. Can you maintain that presence 24 hours a day? Can you be certain that any given player-controlled ship passing through any given system, aligned to no power at all, might not be "just passing through", but rather working as an NOC for an opposed power, and is actually just scouting that system for your presence and reporting back to your enemies the presence of your ships in that system? You might think you could effectively blockade a station, or even flood the landing pads to prevent any docking, and just sit there (real exciting game play there!) but we've already heard from Sandro that they're looking into ways to mitigate this as well, and as well they should, though not for the sake of preventing station clogging for the sake of Power Play, but rather to ensure station availability for the remaining 99% of players who are not involved in Power Play. I know I would be quite annoyed to say the least to find the station that sells that thing I need to be packed full of [colorful metaphor deleted] because they're terrified someone might be delivering propaganda, when all I want is to repair my broken canopy, or pick up a higher grade FSD without having to make another 29 jumps to the next closest station.
And then, let's flip this complete around - let's say your enemies decide they're taking that system from you and fill all the pads with their allies ships, blockading you from blockading that station, only freeing a pad when one of their own comes in range hauling that propagana, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, the crocodile tears you'll shed... nice thing about those double-edged swords, eh?
This is just one of the countless shortcomings of Power Play - there is no way to control or restrict access to a system. We cannot permit-lock systems, which is good, because there'd wind up being no place anyone could travel. We cannot affect the presence or absence of NPC's or direct their actions. We have no influence over station traffic control: "Sorry, commander, due to political reasons, ships aligned with your organization are not permitted to dock here."
And finally, we have to look at Elite: Network Performance - it's no small secret that large numbers of players in the same place, at the same time, can and often does have all manner of unintended and undesired consequences. Add to that what happens when multiple commanders in that region have garbage connections, and here's the next new uber-META:
When engaging in Power Play, switch off your broadband connections, attach to your phone's hotspot, wrap your phone in aluminum foil to ensure the worst possible connection and flock to this location. Just imagine what's going to happen with 10, 20 or 100 commanders with 1100+ ms pings and .35 x .02 connections, all just lingering around, bogging everyone down, causing every interdiction to end in a split-instance, rubber-banding everyone around a system so badly your only option is to quit and play Minesweeper for some action. Yep, more crocodile tears.
What I have yet to see is a single good reason why Power Play should be changed to an Open-Only activity at all, because it's not going to make it any better in any way. In fact, it's will make the overall experience exponentially worse for everyone one, Power-Players and non-Power-Players alike. But I suppose at least it will be in Open Only, where I don't go, so there is that.
Fortifying - accomplished by hauling power-specific goods. Likewise, can be accomplished in any mode.
Preparation - accomplished by hauling power-specific goods, also requires the expenditure of CC.
I counter with a question of my own:
What cannot be done in any mode already to offset the efforts of Undermining, Fortification or Preparation?
You might think that Fortification or Undermining could be stopped or slowed simply by maintaining a presence in a system, however... Let's look at this from a purely Open-Only perspective. Can you maintain that presence 24 hours a day? Can you be certain that any given player-controlled ship passing through any given system, aligned to no power at all, might not be "just passing through", but rather working as an NOC for an opposed power, and is actually just scouting that system for your presence and reporting back to your enemies the presence of your ships in that system? You might think you could effectively blockade a station, or even flood the landing pads to prevent any docking, and just sit there (real exciting game play there!) but we've already heard from Sandro that they're looking into ways to mitigate this as well, and as well they should, though not for the sake of preventing station clogging for the sake of Power Play, but rather to ensure station availability for the remaining 99% of players who are not involved in Power Play. I know I would be quite annoyed to say the least to find the station that sells that thing I need to be packed full of [colorful metaphor deleted] because they're terrified someone might be delivering propaganda, when all I want is to repair my broken canopy, or pick up a higher grade FSD without having to make another 29 jumps to the next closest station.
And then, let's flip this complete around - let's say your enemies decide they're taking that system from you and fill all the pads with their allies ships, blockading you from blockading that station, only freeing a pad when one of their own comes in range hauling that propagana, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, the crocodile tears you'll shed... nice thing about those double-edged swords, eh?
This is just one of the countless shortcomings of Power Play - there is no way to control or restrict access to a system. We cannot permit-lock systems, which is good, because there'd wind up being no place anyone could travel. We cannot affect the presence or absence of NPC's or direct their actions. We have no influence over station traffic control: "Sorry, commander, due to political reasons, ships aligned with your organization are not permitted to dock here."
And finally, we have to look at Elite: Network Performance - it's no small secret that large numbers of players in the same place, at the same time, can and often does have all manner of unintended and undesired consequences. Add to that what happens when multiple commanders in that region have garbage connections, and here's the next new uber-META:
When engaging in Power Play, switch off your broadband connections, attach to your phone's hotspot, wrap your phone in aluminum foil to ensure the worst possible connection and flock to this location. Just imagine what's going to happen with 10, 20 or 100 commanders with 1100+ ms pings and .35 x .02 connections, all just lingering around, bogging everyone down, causing every interdiction to end in a split-instance, rubber-banding everyone around a system so badly your only option is to quit and play Minesweeper for some action. Yep, more crocodile tears.
What I have yet to see is a single good reason why Power Play should be changed to an Open-Only activity at all, because it's not going to make it any better in any way. In fact, it's will make the overall experience exponentially worse for everyone one, Power-Players and non-Power-Players alike. But I suppose at least it will be in Open Only, where I don't go, so there is that.
OOF Waffe PR
Banned
Thats why its a trash feature
So fix the feature or design one that isn't trash.
If ghost leaving very material poop at your very material lawn, it's still a ghost if you're capable of only getting rid of more poop.
The worst thing that could happen if PP goes Open-Only is that PP will lose a few Solo/PG-only players and gain an equal number of Open-Only players and remains a mostly defunct mechanic.
The best thing that could happen is that PP gains a second wind, becomes a vibrant and dynamic mechanic with a flourishing player base that brings some critically needed structure, player agency, and direct competition to the bubble.
Seems like there is very little risk and much to gain. Frankly I can't see how the "best case" scenario wouldn't happen, especially since so many Open players are chomping at the bit to get their hands on a legit Open-Only mechanic.
The best thing that could happen is that PP gains a second wind, becomes a vibrant and dynamic mechanic with a flourishing player base that brings some critically needed structure, player agency, and direct competition to the bubble.
Seems like there is very little risk and much to gain. Frankly I can't see how the "best case" scenario wouldn't happen, especially since so many Open players are chomping at the bit to get their hands on a legit Open-Only mechanic.
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OOF Waffe PR
Banned
We dont need solo people playing a multiplayer game. They opt out of interactions so they shouldn't affect any multiplayer content from within their safety zone. Its simple. You want to be part of a conflict? Come out to the playground. No more hiding.
Sandro's already proposed a really clever fix for it.
So, you just invented a new activity into ED. Congratulations, this game just achieved a one more thing to do : all of those stuff need's to be prepared and coordinated. Any of that is possible from PG basement?
OOF Waffe PR
Banned
Loosing solo underminers is not the "worst thing that could happen".
Sterling MH
Banned
That is only because that punishes non open players.And you play open.
Which time is it? IT'S TIME TO STOP
ED doesn't make big instances exclusively because of netcode and peer-to-peer'iness : single instance cannot have more than 24-ish players or so, so not very much of a big deal.
Sterling MH
Banned
Yeah, but also a braindead one: making it Open only. the others could work. That one can only kill PP.All it does is give those with an epeen a boner that will wilt as soon as there's nowhere to put it.
No, you don't. So play Eve Online then.
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