Modes Open PVE mode - partial solution to community division?

[Sylveria]

Honestly I think there should be a smaller protected area from where we start. I dont think the whole thing should be flagged, because how do you tell if someone is just passing through or working the BGS against you in a pinpointed system.

I think Player faction BGS works different than the "consensual PVP" that powerplay as a whole is. Powerplay is that flagging system, as an understanding. BGS has cops and a whole different structure. To be honest I know more about the BGS than I do powerplay. I did powerplay really early on, seen what it was for. And realized there was nobody there to turn the gears of war. And come to find out you have to join a discord to get decently involved with the group. Hopefully squadrons fixes that.

Everyone else should run the risk of being pirated anywhere, you cant really do that with a PVP flag like youre talking about. If people are just trucking about with no influence changes and you're worried about getting shanked in space. Go to mobius, we already have the PVP flag imo.

People can chose to be out there for fun if they wish. However, anything PVP related powerplay, or Player faction stuff( I dunno how ) Needs to be where people can atleast DEFEND via PVP and drive people off.

I know we've spoke a lot about this in the past. But heres the deal, Ive never wanted to and attack anyone. Ive always just wanted to defend our systems against "PVEers".

Even MCRN when I went to colonia... We were kinda backed into a corner. SO I went out there for a bit. But never seen a soul, I did happen to go INTO their private group though and seen one of the guys working against us within 10 minutes of going into the mobius PG.

Thing is, I just want to defend our system and get some carebears off my space lawn.

I dont think thats too much for people to ask.

If they can define what it means to attack a player faction and restrict that to open play as well.

I could care less about how they flag open to be honest, Just as long as the people are flagged during any PVP activity, that includes hauling, passenger missions or whatever containing influence vs the players faction.

Thats all most of us want really. The ability to defend via PVP.

Dont know why thats so much to ask. Or why people dont understand it.

I completely understand. I also understand that FD created this problem with the release of the game that's heavily favored toward PvP in Open, rather than allowing each player a choice.

We could debate for years (and have in the Hotel) over perceived "unfairness", or we could get back to the basics here and rejoin the discussion at hand.

We're not going to solve the entirety of this games issues in a single thread nor a single conversation, it's been tried. Many times.

It's rather simple- either you agree that PG's could be improved and by way of doing so improve the game for PvE players as well, or you may disagree- but I think we've already covered that base. Your "schtick" is player-versus-player conflict, and PvE'rs simply don't engage other players. The ones who wish to may join Open at any time (and there are those who frequently do) already.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I completely understand. I also understand that FD created this problem with the release of the game that's heavily favored toward PvP in Open, rather than allowing each player a choice.

We could debate for years (and have in the Hotel) over perceived "unfairness", or we could get back to the basics here and rejoin the discussion at hand.

We're not going to solve the entirety of this games issues in a single thread nor a single conversation, it's been tried. Many times.

It's rather simple- either you agree that PG's could be improved and by way of doing so improve the game for PvE players as well, or you may disagree- but I think we've already covered that base. Your "schtick" is player-versus-player conflict, and PvE'rs simply don't engage other players. The ones who wish to may join Open at any time (and there are those who frequently do) already.

I think the PG needs more tools, But I also think that any part of the game that can directly influence a player faction needs to be restricted to open. All the rest of it, I dont care about a group of buddies logging into to shoot some stuff, go material hunting or whatever together.

Just the stuff that effects one another. Give me a fair chance to stop you, rather than grinding back 12 hours because you had the day off lol. See what I mean here?

 

[Sylveria]

I think the PG needs more tools, But I also think that any part of the game that can directly influence a player faction needs to be restricted to open. All the rest of it, I dont care about a group of buddies logging into to shoot some stuff, go material hunting or whatever together.

Just the stuff the effects one another. Give me a fair chance to stop you, rather than grinding back 12 hours because you had the day off lol. See what I mean here?

And PPOO should give you exactly what you wish then, because that's indeed what you've been screaming about (rather audibly, might I add) for months now in the Hotel.

And I told you when we had those conversations you could have it, did I not?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And PPOO should give you exactly what you wish then, because that's indeed what you've been screaming about (rather audibly, might I add) for months now in the Hotel.

And I told you when we had those conversations you could have it, did I not?

Yep unfortunately, as much as I love my player faction. Ill be spending more time with powerplay. And thats cool! But still, those are my buddies we do lots of stuff together. And were a pretty big group.

I just feel Player factions are kinda left out here. Because we've been defending against 1 group of people for OVER A YEAR now, not to mention all the Bots, and other player factions we had to deal with too.

When we were arguing about all that stuff. I felt powerplay needed it too. But I really want to defend my player faction in the same way.


And this is not taking anything away from anyone. Its just fair, to me at least. If you are grinding and spending all that time to do our faction harm? Then we should be able to defend.

So powerplay is going to give us that outlet, and lots of player groups kinda feel left out.

Its not that people want to take anything away from anyone else.

We just want to defend our territory people worked for. Ive given up on most of it now.

All the people yelling "SLIPPERY SLOPE". I feel this is what they are worried about. They wouldnt be able to attack a player faction without being stopped.

Maybe they can add another layer to that part? I dont know.

But people should have direct consequences if you are trying to flip that players system. And there is not, It should be the riskiest part of the game. And it should pay good too!

So powerplay it is. Im excited for it.

 

[Sylveria]

Yep unfortunately, as much as I love my player faction. Ill be spending more time with powerplay. And thats cool! But still, those are my buddies we do lots of stuff together. And were a pretty big group.

I just feel Player factions are kinda left out here. Because we've been defending against 1 group of people for OVER A YEAR now, not to mention all the Bots, and other player factions we had to deal with too.

When we were arguing about all that stuff. I felt powerplay needed it too. But I really want to defend my player faction in the same way.


And this is not taking anything away from anyone. Its just fair, to me at least. If you are grinding and spending all that time to do our faction harm? Then we should be able to defend.

So powerplay is going to give us that outlet, and lots of player groups kinda feel left out.

Its not that people want to take anything away from anyone else.

We just want to defend our territory people worked for. Ive given up on most of it now.

All the people yelling "SLIPPERY SLOPE". I feel this is what they are worried about. They wouldnt be able to attack a player faction without being stopped.

Maybe they can add another layer to that part? I dont know.

But people should have direct consequences if you are trying to flip that players system. And there is not, It should be the riskiest part of the game. And it should pay good too!

So powerplay it is. Im excited for it.

Except the "slippery slope" has nothing to do with what you just described.

The "slippery slope" is about FD rewriting their own history and specifically favoring modes above others in terms of features. It could be argued it started with the implementation of PvP by default for Open, Wings/MC/Squadrons for Open/PG and nothing for Solo, etc.

Once they've done it with PPOO- what else could they do it with in the future. Sandro's reply didn't specify changes for PP being the only ones for now and everything else off the table forever. It just said for now.

Mind you- that discussion is a completely different topic.

So no, you can rest your worries as to the "slippery slope"... that is, until FD decides there's something they want to take away from Open and give to the other modes in the future, now that bell has apparently been rung.

 

[Rhino Hammer]

Yep unfortunately, as much as I love my player faction. Ill be spending more time with powerplay. And thats cool! But still, those are my buddies we do lots of stuff together. And were a pretty big group.

I just feel Player factions are kinda left out here. Because we've been defending against 1 group of people for OVER A YEAR now, not to mention all the Bots, and other player factions we had to deal with too.

When we were arguing about all that stuff. I felt powerplay needed it too. But I really want to defend my player faction in the same way.


And this is not taking anything away from anyone. Its just fair, to me at least. If you are grinding and spending all that time to do our faction harm? Then we should be able to defend.

So powerplay is going to give us that outlet, and lots of player groups kinda feel left out.

Its not that people want to take anything away from anyone else.

We just want to defend our territory people worked for. Ive given up on most of it now.

All the people yelling "SLIPPERY SLOPE". I feel this is what they are worried about. They wouldnt be able to attack a player faction without being stopped.

Maybe they can add another layer to that part? I dont know.

But people should have direct consequences if you are trying to flip that players system. And there is not, It should be the riskiest part of the game. And it should pay good too!

So powerplay it is. Im excited for it.

PPOO takes PP away from me completely because I’m not maintain an XBL subscription any more. When I bought Elite (and before the XBL sub expired), PP was available in all modes. Now it will be gone for me.

But at least when I had XBL, my open mode was just like solo anyway. So if I get XBL again Open only will feel like solo. Problem solved I guess.

Only because it gives us the chance to all be on the same playing field. We're already limited enough through instancing. I dont think a person should be able to remove themselves from a playing field, to attack people on that playing field without actually being there.

Its like getting your butt whipped by a ghost. Gets old after a while thats all.

Except when they ghost from another platform and your “reps” are grossly out numbered. Then the ghosting continues unchecked at all.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Except the "slippery slope" has nothing to do with what you just described.

The "slippery slope" is about FD rewriting their own history and specifically favoring modes above others in terms of features. It could be argued it started with the implementation of PvP by default for Open, Wings/MC/Squadrons for Open/PG and nothing for Solo, etc.

Once they've done it with PPOO- what else could they do it with in the future. Sandro's reply didn't specify changes for PP being the only ones for now and everything else off the table forever. It just said for now.

Mind you- that discussion is a completely different topic.

So no, you can rest your worries as to the "slippery slope"... that is, until FD decides there's something they want to take away from Open and give to the other modes in the future, now that bell has apparently been rung.

As long as its balanced with PVP activities like they are suggesting with powerplay. Like I said, they can flag you guys all youd like. But the moment someone gets involved with attacking a player group, or powerplay. That flag goes away.

They do this in WoW already on PVE servers, as soon as you go into the enemy factions camp. Bam youre flagged.

Maybe when you pick up Influence missions? Maybe Infleunce from missions is only redeemable in Open play and its flagged like those powerplay pamphlets and stuff? Seems pretty reasonable.

And the solo and private groupers, that have nothing to do. Or dont care about flipping a system as they are working on their personal narrative really wouldnt care about this much. And if they are in their own little corner of space. Bam they can do it in open and no one would ever see them.

Usually the systems with activity are all called out through discord or inara.

Someone doing their own thing somewhere. Would hardly see anyone else.

How many time has my boy Agony Aunt and Jockey said they have been flying in open for days and no one has ever bothered them? There ya go.

PPOO takes PP away from me completely because I’m not maintain an XBL subscription any more. When I bought Elite (and before the XBL sub expired), PP was available in all modes. Now it will be gone for me.

But at least when I had XBL, my open mode was just like solo anyway. So if I get XBL again Open only will feel like solo. Problem solved I guess.



Except when they ghost from another platform and your “reps” are grossly out numbered. Then the ghosting continues unchecked at all.

Buy a subscription like every other multiplayer game you have to for Xbox. Can you play madden online without it? No! Then what makes you think this is a special occasion?

 

[Sylveria]

As long as its balanced with PVP activities like they are suggesting with powerplay. Like I said, they can flag you guys all youd like. But the moment someone gets involved with attacking a player group, or powerplay. That flag goes away.

They do this in WoW already on PVE servers, as soon as you go into the enemy factions camp. Bam youre flagged.

Maybe when you pick up Influence missions? Maybe Infleunce from missions is only redeemable in Open play and its flagged like those powerplay pamphlets and stuff? Seems pretty reasonable.

And the solo and private groupers, that have nothing to do. Or dont care about flipping a system as they are working on their personal narrative really wouldnt care about this much. And if they are in their own little corner of space. Bam they can do it in open and no one would ever see them.

Usually the systems with activity are all called out through discord or inara.

Someone doing their own thing somewhere. Would hardly see anyone else.

How many time has my boy Agony Aunt and Jockey said they have been flying in open for days and no one has ever bothered them? There ya go.

As I've stated many times before (I hate repeating myself) I absolutely denounce and detest exploitation. I do not stand by cheaters- ever. I think exploitation is a completely non-partisan subject that should be addressed thus. That *should* be agreeable to everyone who chose to buy and play a video game for whatever their personal "challenge" reasons are.

You see exploitation in many forms- and even in games with flagging. Wow - people using faction alts to block players, EVE cyno alts, etc.

That's not "emergence" it's simply exploiting game mechanics to gain clear advantage over others.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

As I've stated many times before (I hate repeating myself) I absolutely denounce and detest exploitation. I do not stand by cheaters- ever. I think exploitation is a completely non-partisan subject that should be addressed thus. That *should* be agreeable to everyone who chose to buy and play a video game for whatever their personal "challenge" reasons are.

Me too, I cant call it cheating because of how the game was made. But I do think these situations are unfair and are being exploited because they know someone like me could stop them. Different risk, same reward thing.

I just want to defend my player faction. Instead of waking up and hearing, Eh so and so turned in 12 hours worth of 1 clicking. We better login to counter it! Id rather not play it. And dont.

But I do want to play the game. Just not an unbalanced one.

 

[Rhino Hammer]

Buy a subscription like every other multiplayer game you have to for Xbox. Can you play madden online without it? No! Then what makes you think this is a special occasion?

Glad you asked. Because when I bought the game and before my XBL sub expired, PP was still available to me. As is the BGS. But PP is now being taken from me because I no longer pay a sub. So to refute your statement that nothing is being taken away from anyone, I say “not true”. Elite has never required a sub to play solo yet still engage the in-game mechanics of PP. Now it does for. Hence, it’s being taken away.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Glad you asked. Because when I bought the game and before my XBL sub expired, PP was still available to me. As is the BGS. But PP is now being taken from me because I no longer pay a sub. So to refute your statement that nothing is being taken away from anyone, I say “not true”. Elite has never required a sub to play solo yet still engage the in-game mechanics of PP. Now it does for. Hence, it’s being taken away.

Buy a sub.

 

[Rhino Hammer]

Buy a sub.

Why don’t you counter 12 hour 1 clicks? Oh yea, cause you don’t want to.

I don’t want a sub.

 

[Jockey79]

Buy a sub.

Can I buy this one?

 

[rootsrat]

Let's not drift away from the main subject.

@90s - yeah I hear you about BGS being available in Solo/PG and I also think that anything where player-to-player conflict is possible should be open only. It's stupid that it's not. Sadly, it won't be changed anytime soon. The main point of my thread is however to provide a single Open mode for people that are currently scattered around PG's and their own Solo bubbles. It's not to drive away people from Open, it's not to provide "easy mode" etc.

Anyone that doesn't want to play in Open already has that opportunity. Anyone that wants an easy mode already has that opportunity.

Anyone that doesn't want to do PVP and still play with others in an open world - does not. Introducing PVE mode would not take away from anybody. The only real downside I can see it some players that chose Open as "lesser evil" would possibly migrate into Open PVE, but I honestly don't think that number would be big enough to have any real effect on Open play as it is.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Let's not drift away from the main subject.

@90s - yeah I hear you about BGS being available in Solo/PG and I also this that anything where player-to-player conflict is possible should be open only. It's stupid that it's not. Sadly, it won't be changed anytime soon. The main point of my thread is however to provide a single Open mode for people that are currently scattered around PG's and their own Solo bubbles. It's not to drive away people from Open, it's not to provide "easy mode" etc.

Anyone that doesn't want to play in Open already has that opportunity. Anyone that wants an easy mode already has that opportunity.

Anyone that doesn't want to do PVP and still play with others in an open world - does not. Introducing PVE mode would not take away from anybody. The only real downside I can see it some players that chose Open as "lesser evil" would possibly migrate into Open PVE, but I honestly don't think that number would be big enough to have any real effect on Open play as it is.

I agree with everything here. Definition is what we need the most. Pair that with the player conflict stuff designated to open. So that other place would be for PVE only. Bam everyone is happy. I may even use that mode myself just to build a ship or just have a chill cruising stream while working on my account. Then I can choose to do the stressful stuff in open.

Totally with you. But I dont think the PVE Open mode should have a "copy" of powerplay too. It kinda defeats the purpose imo.
Dungeons/Instances though for PVE stuff. In my mind I see raids and stuff. Linear content within those instances. Loot. But thats another subject all together I guess. That could be what that mode is designated for. Give and take sort of thing.

 

[rootsrat]

I agree with everything here. Definition is what we need the most. Pair that with the player conflict stuff designated to open. So that other place would be for PVE only. Bam everyone is happy. I may even use that mode myself just to build a ship or just have a chill cruising stream while working on my account. Then I can choose to do the stressful stuff in open.

Totally with you. But I dont think the PVE Open mode should have a "copy" of powerplay too. It kinda defeats the purpose imo.
Dungeons/Instances though for PVE stuff. In my mind I see raids and stuff. Linear content within those instances. Loot. But thats another subject all together I guess. That could be what that mode is designated for. Give and take sort of thing.

No, no Power Play in Open PVE (I did actually state that in the OP). PP is PVP. Open PVE is not PVP

BGS as it currently stands is available in Solo, so it would be available in Open PVE too. If FDEV ever makes a decision to move that to Open only, Open PVE would not have BGS etc.

Basically Open PVE = Solo for masses.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

No, no Power Play in Open PVE (I did actually state that in the OP). PP is PVP. Open PVE is not PVP

BGS as it currently stands is available in Solo, so it would be available in Open PVE too. If FDEV ever makes a decision to move that to Open only, Open PVE would not have BGS etc.

Basically Open PVE = Solo for masses.

Its really confusing to me though. Just cause of the way powerplay was built. Plus if it stays like it is now, people gotta ask themselves, why would they get involved in powerplay?

Well right now the reward is modules, and predated credit balances. I assume both will change? Even with the proposed changes.

But in my eyes, if you want to make something work. You funnel people into it. And figuratively speaking powerplay has been pretty much in the long run PVE only now? Most of the community uses it for module shopping. I just dont see it going any further than that in the PVE mode.

So to me, the goal is to get as many people in front the dangling carrot as possible. Otherwise, just like the modes we have now. No one will venture out to be competitive. When they can get the same reward and no risk in the other mode.

See what im saying? Not trying to poop on anyone here. Im just looking at this from outside the box. If we want to make it work, reproducing what we have now, else-where is not going to make powerplay work as its intended.

Like the powerplay bubble should be massively breathing.

I dunno, maybe the modules get locked out if the people aren't active for that specific power after an amount of time? That would surely make it dynamic.

And there is more than one way to skin a cat. No denying that. But if it were me, the goal would be to get the most amount of people participating on the same playing field for the personal reward, and the group gameplay.

I dont see re-creating what we have now would fill that void.

 

[Sylveria]

Its really confusing to me though. Just cause of the way powerplay was built. Plus if it stays like it is now, people gotta ask themselves, why would they get involved in powerplay?

Well right now the reward is modules, and predated credit balances. I assume both will change? Even with the proposed changes.

But in my eyes, if you want to make something work. You funnel people into it. And figuratively speaking powerplay has been pretty much in the long run PVE only now? Most of the community uses it for module shopping. I just dont see it going any further than that in the PVE mode.

So to me, the goal is to get as many people in front the dangling carrot as possible. Otherwise, just like the modes we have now. No one will venture out to be competitive. When they can get the same reward and no risk in the other mode.

See what im saying? Not trying to poop on anyone here. Im just looking at this from outside the box. If we want to make it work, reproducing what we have now, else-where is not going to make powerplay work as its intended.

Like the powerplay bubble should be massively breathing.

I dunno, maybe the modules get locked out if the people aren't active for that specific power after an amount of time? That would surely make it dynamic.

And there is more than one way to skin a cat. No denying that. But if it were me, the goal would be to get the most amount of people participating on the same playing field for the personal reward, and the group gameplay.

I dont see re-creating what we have now would fill that void.

That's because not everyone feels a need to be "competitive". Challenge? Sure. Competitive? Nope.

People aren't carbon copies of everyone else, we're all individuals. We all have our own interests- and sometimes it doesn't extend to what others do.

I don't like sports, for example. I know, I'm such a "bad" person... I've just never been interested. Does it mean I judge others for liking them? Nope.

Some people think that people who play video games are "bad people" and judge them for it. We're all going to turn out to be violent sociopaths who randomly shoot up cafes or something because we like video games, right? All of a sudden they're going to grab a Katana and start randomly swinging at people because they liked D&D as a kid. Ever been judged by someone for your own interests before? Because you didn't like exactly what they do?

Think about it. Sometimes it's not so "black and white" as you'd like to believe it is.

Like will attract like. If Open is "meant to be" then people will flock to it with those interests. Forcing people into it isn't going to give you the results you want.

By all means, Dangle all the carrots you wish. I don't chase them, and neither do a lot of others.

You do your thing, I do mine- that's what it's all about. Not "you must do my thing or you're ______ (risk averse, a carebear, whatever other flavor you want to insert) and you need to be forced to see things my way!"

 

[Ian Skippy]

Forcing people into it isn't going to give you the results you want.

By all means, Dangle all the carrots you wish.

Out of sheer curiosity, why do you insist on pretending people want you in Open? We dont. You are free to enter, free to stay out, whatever you want. The community at large is completely indifferent. This isnt about you. There are no carrots. This is about powerplay, and how to fix a broken mechanic. It isnt about you. It isnt about what mode you prefer.

 

[rootsrat]

Out of sheer curiosity, why do you insist on pretending people want you in Open? We dont. You are free to enter, free to stay out, whatever you want. The community at large is completely indifferent. This isnt about you. There are no carrots. This is about powerplay, and how to fix a broken mechanic. It isnt about you. It isnt about what mode you prefer.

Erm, this is about open pve mode.

Let's not turn it into yet another OOPP thread. Please?