Advent of original Ships, or will it be re-hashes!

[Daish]

Since the release of Elite dangerous 2014 we are all familiar with the ships that came in game.
Sidewinder - Cobra mk3 - Viper mk3 - ASp ex- and so on, and though more than likely mentioned in older posts I feel concerns where ship design types are going?.

However I'm sure I speak for many players still that they would like to see some of the older and favourite ships brought back.

With the Krait* making it's way shortly, lets not forget other suitable ships that can easily make a come back. And even be made a little more powerful or slightly bigger than before to suit today's game style and balance.

Gecko ( Trader )
Moray starboat ( Trader )
Boa (Heavy Trader)
Mamba (Pirate trader fighter)
Constrictor (Trader)

Other notable mentions:

Boulder
Monitor
Iguana
Ghavial
Ophidian
Chameleon
Puma Clipper (large trader)
Imperial trader (Heavy Trader)
Transporter (medium trader)
Osprey
Tiger Trader (medium trader)
maybe even Cobra Mk1 (old faithful) would be a nice addition to the game. I want speak of the Panther Clipper as we all know nothing about that ???.

Since the thargoid threat it does seem that re-hashes of ships seems the norm lately T9 to T10 (thargoid attack ship) and now with the up coming Chieftain challenger again seemingly for attacking the thargoid threat.

Before this was the Viper mk4, Asp scout, Cobra mk 4, Fed Dropship, assault ships, Gunship, eagle and Imperial eagle as far as these go some way in keeping with the original game, but not all, some are welcome change however, do we really need the re-hash of the same ship? or is this a simply way of adding some spoilers (T10) bolt on some other bits and off we go. No I feel it's a slight lazy way of ship design moving forward. I would sooner have the design team create the older variants and make them in balance with the game as is of today.

Wouldn't it be easier to create something more powerful to combat threats such as the thargoids but using lets say a Boa which similar to a anaconda could do the same job it can be tanked all it wants, and far more pleasing than a re hashed Chieftain, which unlike the T9 -T10 are the same aside from some added cosmetics.

Simply put lets hope that frontier will start ship design back to it's roots, without to many more re-hashes, although some of you will be all in favour of these, but it would be good to see how many of you would like the older ships back and or buffed to suit Elite 3304.

open debate feel free...

 

[metatheurgist]

With the original game you could only fly the Cobra 3, so all the other ships were just eye-candy. They didn't have to fill any role except more ships for us to see and fight. They didn't have to make sense.

With ED we can fly multiple ships so all those new ships have to make sense and fill a role that isn't already occupied by a ship in the game. Otherwise they'd just end up being skins of existing ships.

 

[space voyager]

And if they were just eye candy there would be an uproar of demands to buy and fly them... I wouldn't mind having non-capital ships I can't own in the game.

 

[Daish]

Thing is they are beefing up ships as they go, and we would not moan if ships from the original were introduced but with some of the same qualities we have already.

For example everyone expects new ships to be better than older ships, so we are thinking about it the wrong way.
Lets take the Boa for example it's bigger than the adaconda so has potential to be a better ship or even if was around the same as the conda it would be a another different shaped ship, as everyone has there own preference to what they like, lots of players dislike the cobra mk 4 mainly because it's a little less weaker than the cobra mk 3 however I personally think it looks better and sounds better.

With all the other ships yet to be added all they really need to do is give them a half decent balance or even be on par with some of the ships currently in game, thing is it's just not about being better, everyone wants that ultimate ship , biggest cargo,space, biggest lasers, biggest shields NO...it's about having a good looking ship/ ships, because we all own several probably that mixes things up a bit, good looking ships for different duties.

Lord of the rings had one ring to rule them all, however Elite dangerous has several ships to bind them.


Nice link showing Boa and Boa class cruise similar to the Adaconda but a lot bigger at the back http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Deepspace_Ships

 

[XOSHI]

Boa (Heavy Trader)

Boa <3

I'd really apreciate a ship like the FFE Boa as it was basically a larger 'Conda, but with better acceleration and less topspeed. For me, the 'Conda is outplaced by it's fractional compeditors (T10,'Vette,iCutter), and out priced by it's smaller cousin(Python), and after the buff, even as the independent trader encripelt by the T9.
That's ok and reasonable, because the 'Conda once was massively overpowerd, but why not adding an additional, even larger class of ships in the independant shipyards, with a larger, more reasonable 'Conda.
Like the ominous Panther LX and the FFE Boa.

The Fractional ships (except the T10) could easily hold it's role, especially the Cutter, in comparison to a bit larger compeditors, as it would still be the shield king and as it still would be the fastest fatty in the universe.
And the 'Vette is really agile for such large ships and has it's dual Huge HPs. Maybe it would need it's two additional uts, but not sure tho.

A Panther LX would need, to get THE trader, a payload of 1000t. Possible internals could be 7PP-8Th-7FSD-6LS-7PD-8Sen-5Ft, and optional 8-8-8-7-6-4-4-4-3-3-2 which concludes in a maximum payload of 1028ts. 6uts and 2 Large HPs (on Top) + 6smalls in a row in front, on top of the bridge should give enough possibilities for defending.
Then, a 1500t Panther would get, with a unengineered 7A fsd, a jumprange of ~ 16,3 empty* and laden of ~ 10,9*. which is okish I guess. But, with a 1500t base hull, the Panther would need a C7 shield as minimum, leaving a payload 900ts. The Speed should be comparable to the Beluga, the manouvrability to the T9. Although it should be easier to fly on surfaces, as the Panther had these rotating thrusters.
Also Balancing. The T9 then surely would have been exceedet in Cargo-capacity, but has easier more Limpets than the Panther gets, without downgrading a larger internal. It just could stay the best Miner.

A Boa could IMO just be a larger 'Conda, with the same 'Conda base internals, just everything bigger. 9PP-8Th-7FSD-6LS-9PD-8Sen-6Ft (a C9 PP shouldn't be the problem, as in ED launch version, the 'Conda was the only ship which was capable of a C8PP/PD. Also the Python was the only ship capable of the C7PP/PD). Optional internal wise (with a bit alteration) we get out of this principle: 8-7-7-7-6-6-6-5m-5m-4-4-4-3 a payload of 888ts. Then the Same/ut weapon layout as the 'Conda except the smalls below the ship, which could get replaced by two mediums ontop of the rear part. 1000ts base hull should give the Boa, with a 7A FSD, a unladen jumprange of ~ 17,2Lys*, laden of 11,9lys*. Also the Boa should be super slow (like a T9) but with a acceleration comparable to the gunship, to stay as close to the original as possible.
To Balance this is easy. The Boa should be (as in the original FFE) a rich mans vessel. This thing has a C9PP which would cost (if we follow the "16-50-160" logic) about a half billion cr!. Surely this beast would supersede the Independent large ships (primary T9/10), but if a Boa costs about 250, maybe 300mil as base, that would be a price for which you can get a A-ratet T9. Problem solved (as seen in the T7/Python comparison). And the others have something which makes them special enough. 'Conda it's tremendous jumprange, the 'Vette it's manouvrability and it's dual Huge HPs and the iCutter has it's Speed and it's shields.

To be honest, I'm just daydreaming a bit, but to get ships like this in ED would be cool.


* In all cases: please look on the laden jumprange of the example-cutter-build, as I tried to get as close to the estimatet weight of the ship, without really having the abilitys to cipher this without a tool like Coriolis. Also I tried to get as close to the A ratet mass, as I could. It would be surely possible to tweak the jumprange, but that would make it harder to calculate and to recognise these.

The Weight calculation:

Spoiler

Panther LX unladen: 1500t base + 40t PP + 160t Th + 80t FSD + 40t LS + 80t PD + 160t Sen + 32t FT = 2092ts
Panther LX laden: 2092ts empty + 1028t cargo = 3120ts

Boa unladen: 1000t base + 160t PP + 160t Th + 80t FSD + 40t LS + 320t PD + 160t Sen + 64t FT = 1984ts
Boa laden: 1984ts empty + 888t cargo = 2872ts

- edit -

Imperial trader (Heavy Trader)
Transporter (medium trader)

We have those two. Although they changed their names, they are clearly there. The iCutter and the T6. Sure they look different, but compare a old Mercedes W110 with the modern e-class. They look really different, but they do exactly the same things, as they have descendet from that.

 

[Daish]

Boa <3

I'd really apreciate a ship like the FFE Boa as it was basically a larger 'Conda, but with better acceleration and less topspeed. For me, the 'Conda is outplaced by it's fractional compeditors (T10,'Vette,iCutter), and out priced by it's smaller cousin(Python), and after the buff, even as the independent trader encripelt by the T9.
That's ok and reasonable, because the 'Conda once was massively overpowerd, but why not adding an additional, even larger class of ships in the independant shipyards, with a larger, more reasonable 'Conda.
Like the ominous Panther LX and the FFE Boa.

The Fractional ships (except the T10) could easily hold it's role, especially the Cutter, in comparison to a bit larger compeditors, as it would still be the shield king and as it still would be the fastest fatty in the universe.
And the 'Vette is really agile for such large ships and has it's dual Huge HPs. Maybe it would need it's two additional uts, but not sure tho.

A Panther LX would need, to get THE trader, a payload of 1000t. Possible internals could be 7PP-8Th-7FSD-6LS-7PD-8Sen-5Ft, and optional 8-8-8-7-6-4-4-4-3-3-2 which concludes in a maximum payload of 1028ts. 6uts and 2 Large HPs (on Top) + 6smalls in a row in front, on top of the bridge should give enough possibilities for defending.
Then, a 1500t Panther would get, with a unengineered 7A fsd, a jumprange of ~ 16,3 empty* and laden of ~ 10,9*. which is okish I guess. But, with a 1500t base hull, the Panther would need a C7 shield as minimum, leaving a payload 900ts. The Speed should be comparable to the Beluga, the manouvrability to the T9. Although it should be easier to fly on surfaces, as the Panther had these rotating thrusters.
Also Balancing. The T9 then surely would have been exceedet in Cargo-capacity, but has easier more Limpets than the Panther gets, without downgrading a larger internal. It just could stay the best Miner.

A Boa could IMO just be a larger 'Conda, with the same 'Conda base internals, just everything bigger. 9PP-8Th-7FSD-6LS-9PD-8Sen-6Ft (a C9 PP shouldn't be the problem, as in ED launch version, the 'Conda was the only ship which was capable of a C8PP/PD. Also the Python was the only ship capable of the C7PP/PD). Optional internal wise (with a bit alteration) we get out of this principle: 8-7-7-7-6-6-6-5m-5m-4-4-4-3 a payload of 888ts. Then the Same/ut weapon layout as the 'Conda except the smalls below the ship, which could get replaced by two mediums ontop of the rear part. 1000ts base hull should give the Boa, with a 7A FSD, a unladen jumprange of ~ 17,2Lys*, laden of 11,9lys*. Also the Boa should be super slow (like a T9) but with a acceleration comparable to the gunship, to stay as close to the original as possible.
To Balance this is easy. The Boa should be (as in the original FFE) a rich mans vessel. This thing has a C9PP which would cost (if we follow the "16-50-160" logic) about a half billion cr!. Surely this beast would supersede the Independent large ships (primary T9/10), but if a Boa costs about 250, maybe 300mil as base, that would be a price for which you can get a A-ratet T9. Problem solved (as seen in the T7/Python comparison). And the others have something which makes them special enough. 'Conda it's tremendous jumprange, the 'Vette it's manouvrability and it's dual Huge HPs and the iCutter has it's Speed and it's shields.

To be honest, I'm just daydreaming a bit, but to get ships like this in ED would be cool.


* In all cases: please look on the laden jumprange of the example-cutter-build, as I tried to get as close to the estimatet weight of the ship, without really having the abilitys to cipher this without a tool like Coriolis. Also I tried to get as close to the A ratet mass, as I could. It would be surely possible to tweak the jumprange, but that would make it harder to calculate and to recognise these.

The Weight calculation:

Spoiler

Panther LX unladen: 1500t base + 40t PP + 160t Th + 80t FSD + 40t LS + 80t PD + 160t Sen + 32t FT = 2092ts
Panther LX laden: 2092ts empty + 1028t cargo = 3120ts

Boa unladen: 1000t base + 160t PP + 160t Th + 80t FSD + 40t LS + 320t PD + 160t Sen + 64t FT = 1984ts
Boa laden: 1984ts empty + 888t cargo = 2872ts

- edit -


We have those two. Although they changed their names, they are clearly there. The iCutter and the T6. Sure they look different, but compare a old Mercedes W110 with the modern e-class. They look really different, but they do exactly the same things, as they have descendet from that.

Yeahhh