What is left?

[Jack1253]

Which means I win by forfeit

[haha] good job... A Winner Is You

 

[Andrew2018]

Nah, I am just tired of his incisiveness complaining. One moment he can not stop complaining about the game, the next he loves the game and says he is right about it all along.

 

[Jack1253]

Nah, I am just tired of his incisiveness complaining. One moment he can not stop complaining about the game, the next he loves the game and says he is right about it all along.

I haven't noticed him doing any of that.

 

[Andrew2018]

I haven't noticed him doing any of that.

he does, not so much anymore, but after the march build it was in tolerable.

 

[inachos]

So this game has a simplified park building sim with only 3 attraction the most basic buildings and so on. (...) But since today we now that those animals only have a basic AI with no proper herding behaviour, sleeping etc.
I also thought that with all the genetic modification focusing on the attack and defend stats of the animals, that the fighting would be a major feature of this game. (...)

I hear ya. I know this community is poisioned at the moment by some certain persons, but I believe this thread is no "whining" thread. You´ve got a point and it´s good, that you speak it out load. I don´t want to get my posts in any kind emotional even through I have mentioned my Disappointment at some other threads very clear. I do understand, that after JPOG the expectations were really high, but the final product, at least from a far-away-view taken from the Videos and Internet-Infomations, seem to be more of a JPOG HD Remake, than a new 2018 videogame. It looks like a semi-product to me. It´s no Zoo-simulation, because Like you said the Interactions, animal variety and customization seems to be very low. It also seems to be a Park Builder with barely content. And yes I understand why there´re many people disappointet at this point. Actually I do feel more tense than excited for the last week of wait since the last month. And that´s because I´ve seen the waste of potential. I am working as an artist as well so I know how much care and love is in such a project. My impression for JWE is, that´there´re too many cooks. Too many compromises and the result is a very risky Product, that could really harm frontiers image in the worst case. As an artist, that had to work on such a situation as well (if my guess was correct) I can just give you "frontier" the advise it is better not making a project, than be limitated on your freedom. I can imagine, that some people are thinking of this sentences as accusation or something, but it is really an advise of someone who knows on his own body, that limitation from outside, causes the biggest frustration for yourself.

I saw threads on the forums, which I can understand that they´re considered as "whining" even through I would never used the word myself, because it sounds aggressive, disrespectful and toxic to me. The size of a dinosaur don´t really matters, yes (please don´t interpret this as an Attack or something. It´s just an random example). Such things do not touch the gameplay, which makes them not thaaaat important to complain about. But there´re huge absences of really important things and it is important to speak this kind of Feedback outloud. That´s no "whining" it is negativ-feedback. And negativ-feedback is feedback aswell. Perhaps I will write a second post on what are the main Issuses I see on the Wishlist thread, just for frontier In case they care for my Impression. Okay enough speech. What I want to say is JWE seem to have issues and these, if they´re reality, are serious indeed. And we have to speak with frontier about it. I suggest let´s make a Last - "whining" Thread just to list of all of the main worries. only for a dialogue with the Devs.

 

[Andrew2018]

I hear ya. I know this community is poisioned at the moment by some certain persons, but I believe this thread is no "whining" thread. You´ve got a point and it´s good, that you speak it out load. I don´t want to get my posts in any kind emotional even through I have mentioned my Disappointment at some other threads very clear. I do understand, that after JPOG the expectations were really high, but the final product, at least from a far-away-view taken from the Videos and Internet-Infomations, seem to be more of a JPOG HD Remake, than a new 2018 videogame. It looks like a semi-product to me. It´s no Zoo-simulation, because Like you said the Interactions, animal variety and customization seems to be very low. It also seems to be a Park Builder with barely content. And yes I understand why there´re many people disappointet at this point. Actually I do feel more tense than excited for the last week of wait since the last month. And that´s because I´ve seen the waste of potential. I am working as an artist as well so I know how much care and love is in such a project. My impression for JWE is, that´there´re too many cooks. Too many compromises and the result is a very risky Product, that could really harm frontiers image in the worst case. As an artist, that had to work on such a situation as well (if my guess was correct) I can just give you "frontier" the advise it is better not making a project, than be limitated on your freedom. I can imagine, that some people are thinking of this sentences as accusation or something, but it is really an advise of someone who knows on his own body, that limitation from outside, causes the biggest frustration for yourself.

I saw threads on the forums, which I can understand that they´re considered as "whining" even through I would never used the word myself, because it sounds aggressive, disrespectful and toxic to me. The size of a dinosaur don´t really matters, yes (please don´t interpret this as an Attack or something. It´s just an random example). Such things do not touch the gameplay, which makes them not thaaaat important to complain about. But there´re huge absences of really important things and it is important to speak this kind of Feedback outloud. That´s no "whining" it is negativ-feedback. And negativ-feedback is feedback aswell. Perhaps I will write a second post on what are the main Issuses I see on the Wishlist thread, just for frontier In case they care for my Impression. Okay enough speech. What I want to say is JWE seem to have issues and these, if they´re reality, are serious indeed. And we have to speak with frontier about it. I suggest let´s make a Last - "whining" Thread just to list of all of the main worries. only for a dialogue with the Devs.

I think (and this is not an attack on you, or anyone else that has negative feelings towards the game) is that there is so much misinformation being thrown around that people are literally picking up anything they can and running with it IE:Lack of herds. There was never going to be a lot of customization because of it being on ps4 and xbox one, they would have rather shown off more dinos instead of having place able benches, which for the general population is a good thing. There is a few things that will be fixed in the long run no doubt, others may never because of the effort it takes to change everything. When it comes down to it though this is still the best Dinosaur game we will have in a long time and they have even admited they plan on trying to keep it updated like the do Planet Coaster and ED. No one here is ever going to be happy an I think one of the biggest downfalls of this week is that people ran with speculation and planted it in their mind as truth when in reality Frontier never said anything about it, but there was a fourm on Reddit or here that people took as the truth.
I know the Real Time Stratgey turn base for Dinosaurs is the most hated feature of the game, but as someone who plays a lot of JRPGS it really doesn't bother me. If it had looked like it did in March I might have been more concerned, but they have done a lot since than to fix it and in is a massive improvement. We have to remember, and I will stress this time and time again. Universal gave frontier 18 months to make this game, something that should take twice as long. They worked their butts off to give us this and I feel bad because with every new feature or game play or dinosaur they are getting beat down more and more. There will be updates, there will be DLC. We have no idea what frontier has in store for this game after the FK DLC, but no matter what it is going to be good.
As for you said the Interactions between dinosaurs is low, I am curious do you mean the fighting or herding? because the later has been taken out of context on every form available. People that are not members of Frontier have played the game in the last week and confirmed that Dinos did herd, the raptors WILL attack in a pack mentality, but doing a rts fight not something out of Skyrim.

 

[PCMR4Life]

I think (and this is not an attack on you, or anyone else that has negative feelings towards the game) is that there is so much misinformation being thrown around that people are literally picking up anything they can and running with it IE:Lack of herds. There was never going to be a lot of customization because of it being on ps4 and xbox one, they would have rather shown off more dinos instead of having place able benches, which for the general population is a good thing. There is a few things that will be fixed in the long run no doubt, others may never because of the effort it takes to change everything. When it comes down to it though this is still the best Dinosaur game we will have in a long time and they have even admited they plan on trying to keep it updated like the do Planet Coaster and ED. No one here is ever going to be happy an I think one of the biggest downfalls of this week is that people ran with speculation and planted it in their mind as truth when in reality Frontier never said anything about it, but there was a fourm on Reddit or here that people took as the truth.
I know the Real Time Stratgey turn base for Dinosaurs is the most hated feature of the game, but as someone who plays a lot of JRPGS it really doesn't bother me. If it had looked like it did in March I might have been more concerned, but they have done a lot since than to fix it and in is a massive improvement. We have to remember, and I will stress this time and time again. Universal gave frontier 18 months to make this game, something that should take twice as long. They worked their butts off to give us this and I feel bad because with every new feature or game play or dinosaur they are getting beat down more and more. There will be updates, there will be DLC. We have no idea what frontier has in store for this game after the FK DLC, but no matter what it is going to be good.
As for you said the Interactions between dinosaurs is low, I am curious do you mean the fighting or herding? because the later has been taken out of context on every form available. People that are not members of Frontier have played the game in the last week and confirmed that Dinos did herd, the raptors WILL attack in a pack mentality, but doing a rts fight not something out of Skyrim.

In one of the interviews it was said that the game been in production for 2 years. Also FD is self funding and publishing the game so I doubt Universal gave them a deadline. If Universal had funded the game and published it I would believe that.

 

[PCMR4Life]

Please don't start with him [haha] I got him to stop earlier, we don't need another flame war.

You didn't get me to stop. I do what I want. I just got sick and tired of sifting through all the whiny threads and post to find something of quality to respond to.

 

[Flash525]

so the problem that this game seems to face so far in my opinion is one facilitated by either lack of time or erronous design philosophy. Case in point: almost all the AI development work seems to have been taken up by the devs fleshing out fundamentally flawed, locked-in, anti-dynamic systems to imitate what in JP:OG was just simple modular behaviour.

Take the combat system for instance: in JWE whenever two dinosaurs decide that for whatever reason they must fight oneanother, the code initiates a locked-in fighting sequence that makes said dinosaurs invisible to all those around them as they repeat one or two repetitive fighting maneuveres from their respective spots.

This is in direct contrast to JP:OG's combat system which wasn't really a system at all. -- the dinosaurs where still fully accessible to those around them and freely navigated the environment whilst fighting. In fact many a times two dueling Tyrannosaurus of mine had their squabble interrupted by an overzealous Triceratops ramming one of them to the floor and bailing.

Now whilst JP:OG's fighting was superficially less impressive because the animation and model quality was sub-par, it was much more random, much more accessible to other in-game objects and much less repetitive for these same reasons. And because not every interaction was dictated by a system, JP:OG had lots of modular code functions that could be used interchangeably when coding new dynamic behaviours!

JWE seems to have made every move and interaction between species in the game limited to JP:OG's locked-in death duel animation paradigm. This makes each individual interaction look superior at first but when taken as a whole all fights begin to look like copy and pasted forgone conclusions.

And finally, what this has all done is facilitate that the individual dinosaur behaviour protocols are actually quite blatantly and dissapointingly underdeveloped outside of these systems. Dinosaurs can't fight out of a locked-in system. Dinosaurs can't herd out of a locked-in system. Dinosaurs can't eat guests or even feed outside the confines of a locked-in system. In fact, just about every meaningful interaction in the game, takes place within the confines of a heavily locked-in system.

So when Frontier finally arrived at making the AI hunt in a locked-in system -- what tf where they supposed to do? Outside of these systems dinosaurs have no dynamic fellow species recognition or synchronized moving code to draw from.

I really hope Frontier can rework all of this. I really do.

 

[PCMR4Life]

Now now, that seems to be lacking in community spirit there fella

Community spirit seems fine to me.

 

[PCMR4Life]

I really hope Frontier can rework all of this. I really do.

You delusional if you think they are going to rework something that isn't an issue.

 

[PCMR4Life]

This pretty much sums it up. Taken from Reddit. It explains the problem much better than I do.

so the problem that this game seems to face so far in my opinion is one facilitated by either lack of time or erronous design philosophy. Case in point: almost all the AI development work seems to have been taken up by the devs fleshing out fundamentally flawed, locked-in, anti-dynamic systems to imitate what in JP:OG was just simple modular behaviour.

Take the combat system for instance: in JWE whenever two dinosaurs decide that for whatever reason they must fight oneanother, the code initiates a locked-in fighting sequence that makes said dinosaurs invisible to all those around them as they repeat one or two repetitive fighting maneuveres from their respective spots.

This is in direct contrast to JP:OG's combat system which wasn't really a system at all. -- the dinosaurs where still fully accessible to those around them and freely navigated the environment whilst fighting. In fact many a times two dueling Tyrannosaurus of mine had their squabble interrupted by an overzealous Triceratops ramming one of them to the floor and bailing.

Now whilst JP:OG's fighting was superficially less impressive because the animation and model quality was sub-par, it was much more random, much more accessible to other in-game objects and much less repetitive for these same reasons. And because not every interaction was dictated by a system, JP:OG had lots of modular code functions that could be used interchangeably when coding new dynamic behaviours!

JWE seems to have made every move and interaction between species in the game limited to JP:OG's locked-in death duel animation paradigm. This makes each individual interaction look superior at first but when taken as a whole all fights begin to look like copy and pasted forgone conclusions.

And finally, what this has all done is facilitate that the individual dinosaur behaviour protocols are actually quite blatantly and dissapointingly underdeveloped outside of these systems. Dinosaurs can't fight out of a locked-in system. Dinosaurs can't herd out of a locked-in system. Dinosaurs can't eat guests or even feed outside the confines of a locked-in system. In fact, just about every meaningful interaction in the game, takes place within the confines of a heavily locked-in system.

So when Frontier finally arrived at making the AI hunt in a locked-in system -- what tf where they supposed to do? Outside of these systems dinosaurs have no dynamic fellow species recognition or synchronized moving code to draw from.

Good. You figured it all out. Go get your refund and stop whining on the forums. Go to reddit with the rest of the whiners.

 

[Player 99234567]

I absolutely agree,

I am really hoping that a lot of the features we have seen are just the tip of the ice burg or just the base because I will be really upset if that is everything. The dino AIs seem really basic and boring which I could completely overlook if the park building and management aspect is up to it. For whatever reason I feel like all of these JWE threads/forums are split into two groups: One that is concerned about the depth of the game and only hopes for there to be more and the other being totally content with what is really bare bones game play. Yes they have a great variety of dinos but that doesnt really mean much when none of them do anything interesting. The fact that dinos cant hunt in packs is already a huge red flag, it seems so lazy of frontier with the current combat system. They made great looking dinos that move and sound amazing but that is about it.

Again I really hope we are wrong and that they are holding out for our own good, but this game will be an instant flop if we are right which I do not want to happen.

 

[SonOfTheSun]

I think (and this is not an attack on you, or anyone else that has negative feelings towards the game) is that there is so much misinformation being thrown around that people are literally picking up anything they can and running with it IE:Lack of herds.

Since there are now multiple threads I will just use my own to answer you. That herding the devs speak of sounds to me like another "trimmed down" feature. I will just quote my post from the other day which got lost in that thread since a moderator had to approve first:

Judging by the reddit post the "herding" they are talking about will look like this:

3-4 Dinos coming randomly together and start "communicating".

But the herding people really wanted and expected is this:

So don't get me wrong, I know that there is some sort of herding feature in the game, it is just not the way I understand the word herding.
The other thing is with the sleeping. I think it was in one of your own threads where you said, that sleeping was never advertised. Well in the second trailer we had a sleeping T-Rex and a Triceratops which was at least resting at the edge of its enclosure. So I for myself thought this was a feature of this game.

I preordered this game as soon as I could and I will not cancel my preorder. Yet I feel the need to express how I am kinda disappointed at this point.

 

[Flash525]

You delusional if you think they are going to rework something that isn't an issue.

How is boring fighting dynamics not an issue? If they're going to fight in the way it's been implied, that's going to get very boring very quickly.

 

[PCMR4Life]

How is boring fighting dynamics not an issue? If they're going to fight in the way it's been implied, that's going to get very boring very quickly.

How do you honestly expect a developer to overhaul an entire game just so they can make your unrealistic expectation come true?

The fighting looks fine. I don't see why you would think it's boring. This is a park management game. Not Jurassic Pokémon.

 

[PCMR4Life]

Since there are now multiple threads I will just use my own to answer you. That herding the devs speak of sounds to me like another "trimmed down" feature. I will just quote my post from the other day which got lost in that thread since a moderator had to approve first:

So don't get me wrong, I know that there is some sort of herding feature in the game, it is just not the way I understand the word herding.
The other thing is with the sleeping. I think it was in one of your own threads where you said, that sleeping was never advertised. Well in the second trailer we had a sleeping T-Rex and a Triceratops which was at least resting at the edge of its enclosure. So I for myself thought this was a feature of this game.

I preordered this game as soon as I could and I will not cancel my preorder. Yet I feel the need to express how I am kinda disappointed at this point.

Too be fair they never said the Dinosaurs were sleeping. They were most likely sick. I guess you could say they would kind of be sleeping but they only do it when they are sick.

 

[Flash525]

How do you honestly expect a developer to overhaul an entire game just so they can make your unrealistic expectation come true?

I don't. I expect(ed) the developers to have got it right before hand. If the fighting, and other elements of the game are stale and dull when released, I think you'll find few people are going to stick around for the patches and DLC. I want this game to be a success, but I'm also weary enough to be cautious.

The fighting looks fine. I don't see why you would think it's boring. This is a park management game. Not Jurassic Pokémon.

It was commented on in the quote posted - regarding the random interactions as in a third Dinosaur getting involved.

 

[Flash525]

Too be fair they never said the Dinosaurs were sleeping. They were most likely sick. I guess you could say they would kind of be sleeping but they only do it when they are sick.

Maybe they were just resting? Can't expect them to forever be walking around in circles. Even people sit down after a long hard day.

 

[PCMR4Life]

I don't. I expect(ed) the developers to have got it right before hand. If the fighting, and other elements of the game are stale and dull when released, I think you'll find few people are going to stick around for the patches and DLC. I want this game to be a success, but I'm also weary enough to be cautious.

It was commented on in the quote posted - regarding the random interactions as in a third Dinosaur getting involved.

They did get it right. The Dinosaur fights look fine. This is a game. If you had unrealistic expectations than that's your problem and not Frontiers.