I don't understand the logic behind the "rebuy is too expensive" shouts

[Crimson Kaim]

So many people say it. So many people quit the game because they lose their ship as they didn't fly with a rebuy in their pocket and most importantly so many people experience great discomfort when having to pay the bills or let alone some cargo hold full of whatever.

Why? Let's look at the logical side:

Let's assume for an example scenario a CMDR upgrades from a T7 to a Python and aims to do all-round purposes and sells the T7. Having around 80 million credits in assets, buying a Python and equip it with some basic D and C rated modules is possible. Equip some cargo racks for trading and some scanners, shields and lasers for exploration and combat in between. Maybe a mining laser as well. So for theory purposes only I say this Python is worth 70 million credits so the rebuy will be 3.5 million credits. Having 80 million in total, that leaves us with 10 million credits in the bank. Seems pretty reasonable.

Now, doing some basic trade runs or haulage missions, this CMDR gets interdicted by a pirate and manages to destroy it, gaining some extra bounty claims. After a couple of hours, let's say 3, this Python pilot managed to increase its credit balance to 20 million credits, a plus of 10 million.

Later on, this pilot decides to participate in the CG. Upon arrival, the Python is being attacked by local terrorists and is getting destroyed. We just gonna assume we don't have alpha/beta insurance and no notoriety discounts and a full cargo hold worth ~ 1 million credits so the rebuy will be 3.5m + 1m = 4.5 million credits. This is still below the profits of the last 3 hours and can easily be aquired back doing the CG or other tasks.

But, for reasons I don't understand, CMDR Python Pilot is extremely angry and complaints about too high rebuy costs and furthermore demnds rebuy costs reductions or even free rebuys.

Why?

CMDR Python Pilot has successfully made the way to 90 million credits in assets before, CMDR Python Pilot has successfully made 10 million credits in 3 hours, CMDR Python Pilot is capable of aquiring 90 million credits but is not capable of paying 4.5 million credits despite its assets being 90 million plus the bank account balance being 10 million? Sure, if the ship is lost I'd understand somehow but then again, there is a red indicator when you check your credit balance that it is lower than your rebuy costs. But as with fuel, people do mistakes so FDev added the loan function where you can borrow some credits or sell other modules/ships to cover the costs of the current bill.

That said. Why are people complaining about rebuy costs that are only 5% of the current value of the ship. Anyone who needs to pay a 5 million credit bill already managed to aquire 100 million credits and what I don#t understand is why 5 million credits are such a pain to pay when you have 100 million or more?

 

[CmdrKull]

The only people I've seen talking about the high cost of rebuy is PvPers. Let's assume they only get into evenly matched scraps. Let's assume they're having fun, so they do that 10 times in a day. Evenly matched means 50/50 odds, so they're going to pay a rebuy 5 times. Combat built, rebuy on a Corvette... I don't know, my Cutter trade build is a 25m rebuy so let's double that (I already know that's too low for some) 50m*5 250m for an afternoon, with zero earning potential the entire time because PvP isn't a paying gig.

Yeah, rebuy might be too much in that case. Doesn't mean we should break the rest of the game to fix it, but it certainly doesn't endear one to PvP in their big ships.

 

[Majic-12]

Because Open.

 

[Sterling MH]

True it is (almost? Always? SEEMS always) the PvPer, but the rest is kinda dodgy. That reasoning would require that there be some metric to decide equal risk so it IS a 50-50. Next there has to be an equal desired outcome. so pvp should only be between two combat ships because a trader wants to get away, and that is a "win" but that loss for the PvPer costs them no rebuy. Secondly, it should be the death knell of the "pirates" because that isn't an equal fight by their own role play. And how do you enforce people into only going into 50-50 matches?

I will point out CQC enforced this and look how well that turned out. Asymetric warfare not an option: no desire for it. So it isn't going to be 50-50.

And we have what else is lost beyond the rebuy which all risk. The combat pilot loses the bounties since last cashed in. The trader loses the cargo which isn't compensated for and liable to be a lot more in a big ship since the combat pilot would be daft to risk losing much more than 20-30 minutes work on an even shot. So that is an unequal loss at risk 50-50. And an explorer will have been out for weeks (some years) and they risk what progress they did, all of it, in this, even if it's only a fortnight of play, that is 100x as much risked as the combat pilot.

And how do the pilots work out the threat? There is not merely skill but in PvP the meta bulds. The only difference could be that one is a shield tank while the other is piercing shields. Which doesn't factor into anything the pilot sees.

And this is if even the pilot WANTS to play an even game.

Meanwhile we have the FACT that if they wanted to earn credits to play the game segment they like, they can go exploring and "earn far too much for zero risk" as an explorer. And maybe get their name on a star. Then when they've earned that wodge of cash, PvP combat with an equal opponent some more.

Heck, they do this already when a splot for 200 cr/hr comes out. None of those apart from skimmer mission stacking were combat missions. At the least the majority were not combat even with NPCs where you risk zero unless you're bad at combat. In which case no matter who you try to beat up it will either be a noob or you have no chance.

So, again, why should the rebuy for a combat ship for a PvP encouner be zero? If you made it zero for a trader dying in PvP, maybe. Or had a sliding scale or excluded zero rating for engineered ships. Or you only get zero if the opponent is at 90% hull and 60% shields when you die (indicating you were outclassed).

Or the game records your play assesses your skill and the ship you're piloting and gives you your rating and theirs and then tells you what rebuy you will face before combat?

 

[verminstar]

Why I avoid pvp has absolutely nothing to do with the rebuy cost...been said before what the issues are and the only ones I seem crying over rebuys are the pvprs themselves.

I’m saying that, I will switch to solo when at the likes of a CG because the rebuy on the cutter is an awful lot more than 5m and the odd o7 wave isn’t worth the hassle of a rebuy that big. And no I won’t use a cheap ship just to enjoy the very occasional o7...easier just not being there at all.

By all means, if ye don’t like it then I can supply a box of tissues. That’s how much I care about pvprs whining about the lack of targets...imo it’s a self inflicted problem not mine ^

 

[Goose4291]

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

The only people I've seen talking about the high cost of rebuy is PvPers.

I don't think that's fair. Or perhaps it is and you missed all those threads of woe describing in detail how someone peacefully trading in Open got ganked/griefed/whatevered and cost them millions in rebuy with a whole nights work wasted, or words to that effect.

General rebuy cost is a subjective value judgement. There's no logic to it (to allude the OP here), but some players, whether PvE or PvP, are better at calculating and mitigating risks than others. For such people the rebuy costs would be just fine as they are, I would think. As an extreme example at the other end, someone who faceplants asteroids on a regular basis would have a different view.

But then what do I know, I play Solo and PG - bite me

 

[Andovar]

From personal experience, I can say that when I started the game, credits were tough to come by. (i played at release)
I never min/maxed or looked for the recent exploits. But can say from normal gameplay, it was tough early going, and while I never flew without a rebuy (well, maybe briefly...just once), every rebuy in the early going was painful.

I know profit streams have become more lucrative since release, but I still don't know what it's like for a new player. I'd imagine not having any alliances would still make getting going a bit of an uphill battle.
Not that there's anything wrong with this. Not in any way advocating that new players should have free credits. But I could see how there could potentially be rebuy 'stress' for a new player.

Here's an idea to help new players.
While you're ranked harmless/penniless/aimless, your rebuy is 1%.
once you get one of them up to rank 2, then your rebuy goes to 3%.
And upon reaching rank 3 in any of them, it hits the normal 5%.

 

[ilo]

Most of the times it is just PVP players, so bad at it, they keep dying all the time.

 

[Jukelo]

Rebuys cost about 5% of what they should.

 

[znôrt]

CMDR Python Pilot is extremely angry and complaints about too high rebuy costs and furthermore demnds rebuy costs reductions or even free rebuys.

Why?

instead of generalizing you should ask cmdr python pilot.

imo rebuy is ridiculously low. then again this is a strange game with magic modes and a weirdly inconsistent world, so dunno what to say ...

 

[Blueiuiview]

How much time do you think a causal player spends in the game in a week? 3 hours is about the max time I spend in ED on an average for a week that I decide to play.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

I sometimes wonder if it has to do with the much faster rate you can make money. Sounds weird, since being able to make money faster should have the opposite effect, but Elite in this regard has a lot of "learning by doing/failing". A lot of things I learned from dying because I did stupid things, but since I was in a sidewinder for a long time and then I cobra for a long time, money from rebuys was peanuts and not really notable on my bankaccount.

At the point I got to the more expensive ships I made all the mistakes and learned my lessons already. I still lost a bigger expensive ship here and there but at that point I knew before it happend that what I'm doing is really stupid and I probably gonna lose the ship. It wasn't a lack of knowledge or experience just me being crazy

 

[Harry Hates Golf]

DAMMIT, BILLY! KEEP YOUR HEAD LOW!!!!

[video=youtube_share;6cdFuMgMkBM]https://youtu.be/6cdFuMgMkBM[/video]​

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

You lose a ship worth 800,000,000 credits.

You get a replacement ship for 5% of the cost.

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me lol.

As for PvP costs: Yeah, it adds up. Ship and weapon transfers, occasional rebuys, munitions. But that's all part of the game man. But unless you're losing a maxed corvette every day, it ain't all that bad.

Medium ship rebuys are 4-7 million, even less for smaller ships. It takes no time at all to earn that back.

 

[lecorsobreton]

PvE wise, most pilots who get blown up didn't know when to call it quits and blame the cheating AI.
PvP wise, I don't know, I've been attacked 3 times and managed to flee. I've never been attacked by a group of players though, so I can't tell wether or not I'd have made it out alive.

To sum up, in the words of Gandalf, "fly you fools!".

 

[Blueiuiview]

OP proposed that it takes 3 hours to earn 10 mil and postulated that said python pilot lost 4.5 mil being someone's content.

 

[Sylveria]

Most of the (public) rebuy whining I've seen is by PvPers, but to be fair- I've also seen quite a bit from PvErs who are flying something a bit above what they can afford to make back in terms of skill and rank. The "Noobaconda Effect" is a good example of this. To them I say - don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

With PvP- it's a response to the C&P implementation and avoiding rebuy costs as an "incentive" to engage in PvP combat. I'm actually sort of split on that one. I'm not at all satisfied with the C&P implementation to begin with, as it failed to address the actual problem- but that's a whole different enchilada entirely. I'd have to say that if PPOO does indeed go through- then pledged players fighting opposing pledged players should at least be able eligible for a discounted rebuy which would be subsidized by their pledged faction. Even 20-25% would be a good incentive for this. After all, in wartime situations when you're fighting in uniform, you're not personally spending your own cash to reimburse the faction you're supporting. In a supportive combat situation, you're likely offered some sort of benefit in reduced cost of equipment and so forth, whether being supplied or discounted supplies.

For normal gameplay- nope. Same rules should apply to everyone. No "mode-wide" bonuses or any of that . If your incentive is to engage others, you don't need it to begin with.

 

[Captain Willard]

Open power play care bears? To funny.

 

[GTwannabe]

Maybe try not to die?