The Star Citizen Thread v8

[knowles2]

It was always claimed that "optimization" would happen at the end of the development cycle )

That works for when games were many times smaller today, wing commander, build the thing first debug and optimise later. Unfortunately today games are so huge, so complex with so many interrelated parts doing it that way is just impossible.

It has Christ Roberts 6 very long years and probably tens of millions of dollars in wasted development time to learn that.

 

[MTBFritz]

nah I get that with how bloated and complex todays video games are you cannot afford to hold optimization till the end but try to weave it in as an on-going process even tho the main chunk of optimization will still happen at the end. I m sure other companies have people working full-time on optimization but the thing itself will be a side-activity throughout the majority of the total development. Ever since 3.0 tho it appears like CiG has switched focus to optimization at the cost of content. 3.1 + 3.2 hardly brought anything new, most of the work was done regarding on the network-side (?).

I mean....could it be that "things will pick up in speed" now that the foundation allows for it?
Or will tier1 mining be a thing for 4.0 and we ll still sit at 2 barren moons at the end of the year?

 

[knowles2]

nah I get that with how bloated and complex todays video games are you cannot afford to hold optimization till the end but try to weave it in as an on-going process even tho the main chunk of optimization will still happen at the end. I m sure other companies have people working full-time on optimization but the thing itself will be a side-activity throughout the majority of the total development. Ever since 3.0 tho it appears like CiG has switched focus to optimization at the cost of content. 3.1 + 3.2 hardly brought anything new, most of the work was done regarding on the network-side (?).

I mean....could it be that "things will pick up in speed" now that the foundation allows for it?
Or will tier1 mining be a thing for 4.0 and we ll still sit at 2 barren moons at the end of the year?

I think they are now just basically taking frontier approach, just get things in the game and working, even if it just bare, minimal viable product.

I suspect either Chris Roberts have been drag kicking and screaming into this approach or they have finally internally sideline him so they can just get on with building a game and saving their jobs before they run out of money.

 

[Cobra1984]

There was a handful of 4 figure whales pulling out recently, I wonder are we seeing the start of the 5 figure guys realising there's no game coming?

I get the $200 and below backers refunding, they have nothing to lose. There has also been a steady run of sub $1,000 refunds up until January when all refunds stopped and downsizing/cost saving started.

But it's interesting to see a 5 figure backer who is a content creator feeling that there is no value in continuing to support the project.

Either that or he's gotten wind of some impending and incoming calamity and is trying to get his money out.

It's too late for any of that. Even the banks have stopped reversing the charges. It'd take a full on court case to get his money out, so I don't know why he can't take a grand of his 'beer and sushi money' and put it in his lawyer's pocket instead of the Roberts family retirement fund.

 

[PiLhEaD]

The impression I have is that most studios use very pared down visuals when building up the main gameplay elements, (eg) getting the flight model right, before they start fleshing out and polishing the visuals. A prime example here being FDev who have iterated the planetary graphics numerous times since release, normally improving both the graphics and performance.

CIG seem to want to polish the assets and make everything as shiny as possible prior to getting other more rudimentary areas done or even designed. This would seem to be putting the passengers before the cart before the horse.

I can wait until 2025 for SC I guess, but 2030 might be pushing it as I have a suspicion Elite: Deadly* may well be in developement by then. Fingers crossed all round.

* FDev have already trademarked this for a computer game.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

CIG seem to want to polish the assets and make everything as shiny as possible prior to getting other more rudimentary areas done or even designed. This would seem to be putting the passengers before the cart before the horse.

Well, it's the bling bling (aka polished assets aka ships) who brings the money in.

 

[Cobra1984]

This backer is too late. Since "3.0" Refunds have been shut down and his over 10 grand are already gone. He is going to enjoy the ride to the bitter end with alpha servers being shut off and no game released.

He is ready to sue, but civil lawsuits are pretty useless against insolvent shell firms. Maybe we will see him giving testimonials in the upcoming TV documentaries about crowd funding scams.

He could go the arbitration route but I very much doubt any of these guys want to attach their name to a lawsuit against the Roberts - considering the community we're talking about here.

 

[Jonny Shiloh]

Well, it's the bling bling (aka polished assets aka ships) who brings the money in.

Indeed. You couldn't sell many jpeg spaceships if Star Citizen alpha three-point-whatever looked like this:

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPjmxrvuh4A[/video]

 

[sovapid]

I also wonder why nobody took control of the ship and went to a moon with everyone on board.

Because this is Star Citizen that we are talking about.

At one point someone did take control and tried to take off, but the ship was too damaged to fly.

It probably got too damaged by all the players clipping through the ship and messing it up.

 

[sovapid]

But it's interesting to see a 5 figure backer who is a content creator feeling that there is no value in continuing to support the project.

Either that or he's gotten wind of some impending and incoming calamity and is trying to get his money out.

It isn't a big mystery why the guy is considering a refund, he says why.

It was my thinking SC was going to have "Safe space" and "non-combat"; but clearly they don't know what either of those are and over time have changed gameplay description to the point I really do not want anything to do with this project and am sure I will never login again.

His dreams of the game don't line up to what the game (might) actually be.

Although I think he is over reacting to the Piracy vs Griefing answer CIG gave in the last Calling all Devs.

 

[Cobra1984]

It isn't a big mystery why the guy is considering a refund, he says why.



His dreams of the game don't line up to what the game (might) actually be.

Although I think he is over reacting to the Piracy vs Griefing answer CIG gave in the last Calling all Devs.

He could have come to that same conclusion 3 or 4 years ago. He could have come to the same conclusion when Lando confirmed that ship theft was still on the 'long term' agenda.

There really is no mystery - there is no game coming out of this, at all, ever. The acceptance of that is taking hold at higher and higher levels of the pyramid.

These are the same guys who spite pledged (and said so, and posted screenshots of their purchases) at every single red flag that was publicised.

And these weak and pitiful excuses for finally wanting to pull their money out don't wash with me. I've been watching it and documenting it for too damn long.

 

[Toumal]

Look, 64+ player fights might have been the thing that games did back in 2003, but that doesn't count because by then, Chris had been thrown out of the industry due to his mismanagement, bad planning, money-wasting wannabe filmmaker habits, and inability to deliver, so it never actually happened.

Frack. I can't win, can I?

It's on topic. Direct quote from the linked article: "However, Mollick’s research was conducted before such high-profile fraud cases as the $179 million campaign by Star Citizen, $35 million scam by Lily Drone, $17 million by Elio Motors Scooter, and Coolest Cooler’s $13 million fiasco." End quote.

Shots fired.

I THOUGHT YOU MADE THIS UP. Then I read the article. That is some sick burn right there.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

It isn't a big mystery why the guy is considering a refund, he says why.



His dreams of the game don't line up to what the game (might) actually be.

Although I think he is over reacting to the Piracy vs Griefing answer CIG gave in the last Calling all Devs.

The cold harsh truth of hype deflation. It is a lesson most learn at some point. Tho you definitely could have it for cheaper. The only constant is the time you invest - you never get that back.

 

[Zetta]

What's going on 'ere then? https://streamable.com/43c4x

 

[Jenner]

What's going on 'ere then? https://streamable.com/43c4x

Emergent Gameplay.

 

[TenakaFurey]

Sure its my own view on this mess but I generally get the impression that CiG is running out of money. People still try to refund, the rate of incoming new blood cannot be enough to counter that loss or give em a positive drift. Despite its praise of "most transparent development evah" we have no idea if CiG is taking on investors or is still running on private money only. But the slowing down of progress rate (yes, even more then usual) and their sudden focus on things that were deemed unimportant the first 4-5 years gives me the feeling we are looking at CiGs "endgame" regarding Star Citizen and they are trying to accomplish that much-dreaded MVP in order to get into the clear.

My own viewpoint is:

1 - CIG are running out of cash.
2 - They are rushing to get a MVP product out the door. They need a basic level of performance and basic game mechanics to justify a MVP moniker. It doesn't matter if that is what was promised or good...they will call it placeholder if necessary, but the important aspect is that the feature is there
3 - If they can deliver a legitimate "MVP", then it doesn't really matter how bad it is, or what is missing, or if it lives up to the hype. They can make a decent case to legitimately stop refunds, even in the EU. More importantly, it lets them avoid a certain number of legal entanglements because they would hsve delivered something.

So - as predicted by me (gonna blow my own trumpet ) CIG will likely deliver something, but that something won't be the game we wanted or that they promised. I expect a BIG rush to get the various mechanics and gameplay in place, to expand the content available, and to improve performance. I also expect a big rush to TRY and remove as much CryEngine code from the game as possible....the MobiGlass "improvements" seem to be very much an example of this as (IIRC) the MobiGlass system is built upon CE routines that aren't available in LY.

And once the MVP is out, they are legally off the hook and can sit back, relax, spend their millions and "develop the game at their own pace".

However, none of what they are doing right now strikes me as addressing any of the major issues with the game or its engine. I think they'll deliver something, but while I think the dream of the "MMO" universe is dead, they might still be able to salvage a decent enough multiplayer game out of this. Depends on how much scaling back they do, of course and whether or not the engine is too compromised to reach an acceptable level of performance. That's always been the frustrating part...CIG have had the basic foundations for the game in place for years. Star Marine for the FPS, AC for the flight, PU for the worlds and so on. They just didn't do anything with them.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I was reading a comment elsewhere as to how they thought that at minimum we'll see Squadron 42 released. I'm willing to bet that the game is reliant in its entirety on the SC PU being in working order and that it would just be a "gated" version. Ergo I reckon we'll never see SQ42 either. We might see a naff motion capture movie...

 

[Steve O B Have]

My own viewpoint is:

1 - CIG are running out of cash.
2 - They are rushing to get a MVP product out the door. They need a basic level of performance and basic game mechanics to justify a MVP moniker. It doesn't matter if that is what was promised or good...they will call it placeholder if necessary, but the important aspect is that the feature is there
3 - If they can deliver a legitimate "MVP", then it doesn't really matter how bad it is, or what is missing, or if it lives up to the hype. They can make a decent case to legitimately stop refunds, even in the EU. More importantly, it lets them avoid a certain number of legal entanglements because they would hsve delivered something.

So - as predicted by me (gonna blow my own trumpet ) CIG will likely deliver something, but that something won't be the game we wanted or that they promised. I expect a BIG rush to get the various mechanics and gameplay in place, to expand the content available, and to improve performance. I also expect a big rush to TRY and remove as much CryEngine code from the game as possible....the MobiGlass "improvements" seem to be very much an example of this as (IIRC) the MobiGlass system is built upon CE routines that aren't available in LY.

And once the MVP is out, they are legally off the hook and can sit back, relax, spend their millions and "develop the game at their own pace".

However, none of what they are doing right now strikes me as addressing any of the major issues with the game or its engine. I think they'll deliver something, but while I think the dream of the "MMO" universe is dead, they might still be able to salvage a decent enough multiplayer game out of this. Depends on how much scaling back they do, of course and whether or not the engine is too compromised to reach an acceptable level of performance. That's always been the frustrating part...CIG have had the basic foundations for the game in place for years. Star Marine for the FPS, AC for the flight, PU for the worlds and so on. They just didn't do anything with them.

No, I think they had the basic smoke and mirrors in place to make it seem like there was a foundation. They're just snippets of the ideas represented as best they can within the limitations of the engine. Foundations is not what CIG do.

 

[PiLhEaD]

1 - CIG are running out of cash.
2 - They are rushing to get a MVP product out the door. They need a basic level of performance and basic game mechanics to justify a MVP moniker. It doesn't matter if that is what was promised or good...they will call it placeholder if necessary, but the important aspect is that the feature is there
3 - If they can deliver a legitimate "MVP", then it doesn't really matter how bad it is, or what is missing, or if it lives up to the hype. They can make a decent case to legitimately stop refunds, even in the EU. More importantly, it lets them avoid a certain number of legal entanglements because they would hsve delivered something.

I can already hear the cries of 'half an inch deep and one metre wide'. As for "develop the game at their own pace", well I think the heat-death of the universe may come sooner.

To be honest CIG have firmly painted themselves into a corner where whatever they deliver, and no matter how 'good', it will never match their fans' expectations. It simply cannot.

#BuyAnIdris

 

[DLewth]

It's on topic. Direct quote from the linked article: "However, Mollick’s research was conducted before such high-profile fraud cases as the $179 million campaign by Star Citizen, $35 million scam by Lily Drone, $17 million by Elio Motors Scooter, and Coolest Cooler’s $13 million fiasco." End quote.

Shots fired.

Ouch. That's going to leave a mark...

Incidentally, am I the only person who desperately wants an ostrich pillow? [cool]