Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Can we tabulate the bounty range per murder for a ship type?
Defending against Murder Monkeys and other BGS attacks: Best Current Thinking
- Thread starter Jane Turner
- Start date
Yes, but following calculations are valid for starting notoriety 10.
Just go to Coriolis or EDSY and generate a combat build for each shiptype with 10-15% discount for costs and note the rebuy costs -> min. combat rebuy cost
Then add a prismatic shield gen, reactive composite armor and some SCBs for max value and note the rebuy costs too. -> max. combat rebuy cost
The bounty range: (min. combat rebuy costs/~33) till (max. combat rebuy costs/~33).
The divisor 33 resulted from my own observations, it varies between 30-35.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
its probably constant and what varies is the build costs and discount levels for the murder monkeys!
I'll start on the table later - and hope to crowdsource the values!
I'll start on the table later - and hope to crowdsource the values!
Just had to laugh after seeing this as part of the stated design goals of ATR in the C&P thread currently in Dangerous Discussion:
It hasn't really, has it...
It hasn't really, has it...
my experience of the atr is they are as much use as aquatic craniate creatures with mammary glands, unfortunately a half posterior attempt by the devsJust had to laugh after seeing this as part of the stated design goals of ATR in the C&P thread currently in Dangerous Discussion:
It hasn't really, has it...
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
it is better. than it was. I was thinking - I'd rather that the need to drop was added to Murder and then it would be plaudible to put a murder drop bacl to -5, since its clearly harder work than a bounty
I disagree. It's quicker than bounties by far (in kills, let alone transactions). Kill one ship, then just kill all police that shows up. Everything is a target.
In bounties, a good portion are clean, another portion are PP NPCs, and only a minority are actually wanted targets. So you spend a lot of time waiting, maybe even jumping out of the res and back.
And many wanted pirates are a lot tougher than the police. (as are bounty hunters, btw).
So, I wouldn't make it count for more unless the targets would at least match bounty hunting level. Why is police so poorly equipped, in the first place?
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Deleted member 38366
D
To detect Negative Faction Trends, look at the local and adjacent (<15LY) Passenger types offered by and for your Faction.
- i.e. Negative Trade will incur Bust Trend building up, which will drastically increase the likelihood and amount of the affected Faction offering Criminal VIP Passengers (long before Bust will go Pending)
- Crime (Kinetic Action/Smuggling) will incur Lockdown Trend, which will enable Security Workers bulk Passenger Missions with the affected Faction being the Target Faction (long before Lockdown will go Pending) *
As Faction State effects from Missions are very pronounced, executing a considerable number (20-40) of such Missions will counter such Trends in a very effective way.
Additionally, draining these buckets is possible regardless of current Faction state, as filling or draining these buckets is unaffected by Faction States for all I know.
Normal/legal VIP Tourists (typically -Civil Unrest) are easily stackable and can be used to keep the Civil Unrest bucket drained, although it really isn't a harmful Faction State.
* Security Workers Limitations :
- while Security Workers remain a reliable detector of Lockdown bucket being filled, the chance of seeing them by viewing only a single Passenger Mission board has become quite low (i.e. compared to V2.x)
-> limited availability (spawn rate) of Security Worker Missions makes them a rather poor Tool to fight the Lockdown trend; rather opt for i.e. Planetary Data Link Scan Missions if available
- multiple Passenger Boards within 15LY must be viewed to provide a more reliable picture
- to monitor a Faction for a Lockdown Trend building up, that Target Faction must reside in a System with at least one L Pad (Passenger Missions will only ever have a place with L Pads as a Destination)
- 15LY or less appears to be the limit for typical (local area) bulk Passenger Missions
- Target Faction does not need to control any Assets within a monitored System, sheer presence is sufficient
2nd reliable Lockdown indicator (non-Anarchy Orbital Stations only, allow 5-10 Minutes for NPC scenarios to develop for Analysis) :
~ 50% Lockdown bucket -> increased amount of Wanted NPCs seen around Station
~ 60% Lockdown bucket -> more Wanted NPCs, now are getting caught & attacked by Patrol Fighters around Station (NPCs fleeing)
~ 70% Lockdown bucket -> frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, dumped Cargo (normal Commodities) outside Station becomes a regular sight
~ 80% Lockdown bucket -> very frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, dumped illicit Cargo (more unusual/rare Commodities) often seen outside Station
~ 90% Lockdown bucket -> very frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, illicit Cargo now also seen inside the Station (typically Toxic Waste). This is the last chance to step in and prevent Lockdown to go pending.
100% Lockdown bucket -> Lockdown State goes Pending
To a very limited extent, Orbital Outposts will show similar signs of unusual NPC activity (only >80% Lockdown), indicated by illicit and often exotic Commodities found dumped by NPCs around Outpost (again, allow 5-10 Minutes for observation). The late setting in and generally lower occurrence (less NPC Traffic than Stations) makes it difficult to reliably detect it around Outposts, though.
I know of no such NPC scenarios for Planetary Assets, AFAIK that is not implemented for those.
Massive onslaughts (bucket filled within a single BGS cycle) will naturally render those Early Warning mechanisms ineffective; they're only applicable for a gradual buildup caused by low/medium Intensity attacks.
- i.e. Negative Trade will incur Bust Trend building up, which will drastically increase the likelihood and amount of the affected Faction offering Criminal VIP Passengers (long before Bust will go Pending)
- Crime (Kinetic Action/Smuggling) will incur Lockdown Trend, which will enable Security Workers bulk Passenger Missions with the affected Faction being the Target Faction (long before Lockdown will go Pending) *
As Faction State effects from Missions are very pronounced, executing a considerable number (20-40) of such Missions will counter such Trends in a very effective way.
Additionally, draining these buckets is possible regardless of current Faction state, as filling or draining these buckets is unaffected by Faction States for all I know.
Normal/legal VIP Tourists (typically -Civil Unrest) are easily stackable and can be used to keep the Civil Unrest bucket drained, although it really isn't a harmful Faction State.
* Security Workers Limitations :
- while Security Workers remain a reliable detector of Lockdown bucket being filled, the chance of seeing them by viewing only a single Passenger Mission board has become quite low (i.e. compared to V2.x)
-> limited availability (spawn rate) of Security Worker Missions makes them a rather poor Tool to fight the Lockdown trend; rather opt for i.e. Planetary Data Link Scan Missions if available
- multiple Passenger Boards within 15LY must be viewed to provide a more reliable picture
- to monitor a Faction for a Lockdown Trend building up, that Target Faction must reside in a System with at least one L Pad (Passenger Missions will only ever have a place with L Pads as a Destination)
- 15LY or less appears to be the limit for typical (local area) bulk Passenger Missions
- Target Faction does not need to control any Assets within a monitored System, sheer presence is sufficient
2nd reliable Lockdown indicator (non-Anarchy Orbital Stations only, allow 5-10 Minutes for NPC scenarios to develop for Analysis) :
~ 50% Lockdown bucket -> increased amount of Wanted NPCs seen around Station
~ 60% Lockdown bucket -> more Wanted NPCs, now are getting caught & attacked by Patrol Fighters around Station (NPCs fleeing)
~ 70% Lockdown bucket -> frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, dumped Cargo (normal Commodities) outside Station becomes a regular sight
~ 80% Lockdown bucket -> very frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, dumped illicit Cargo (more unusual/rare Commodities) often seen outside Station
~ 90% Lockdown bucket -> very frequent Wanted NPCs caught and destroyed, illicit Cargo now also seen inside the Station (typically Toxic Waste). This is the last chance to step in and prevent Lockdown to go pending.
100% Lockdown bucket -> Lockdown State goes Pending
To a very limited extent, Orbital Outposts will show similar signs of unusual NPC activity (only >80% Lockdown), indicated by illicit and often exotic Commodities found dumped by NPCs around Outpost (again, allow 5-10 Minutes for observation). The late setting in and generally lower occurrence (less NPC Traffic than Stations) makes it difficult to reliably detect it around Outposts, though.
I know of no such NPC scenarios for Planetary Assets, AFAIK that is not implemented for those.
Massive onslaughts (bucket filled within a single BGS cycle) will naturally render those Early Warning mechanisms ineffective; they're only applicable for a gradual buildup caused by low/medium Intensity attacks.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Not if you had to make a scalp drop to get a transaction. That would always entail leaving the system and hence should take longer than a typical bounty drop.
Fair point.
FDev, make it happen.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...confirmed-by-IF-contact?p=6801966#post6801966
Add your "me too" if you want.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Done. I really hope FD pick up on this.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
The faction that the clean ship belongs to is the one that gets the influence hit, as far as is known
This is definitely true and has been tested. I think the misconception comes from the ease of finding and targeting system authority vs. hunting other clean ships.
Do ATR kills count as security kills, or extra?
Also:
If the security level is low, ATR will take forever to show and you might as well forget about them. They only modify behaviour in med and high sec systems, making nav sites tricky. In this case you'll use interdiction in SC and pick off weak targets (pushing up civil unrest) as most sec ships are not easily destroyed in such a short timeframe (not without incurring considerable damage anyway).
In low sec areas, any ship can be used to kill since you face panda car cops- so you can only really use the counting bounty method in med and high sec because there you need an advanced ship to remain viable.
Also:
If the security level is low, ATR will take forever to show and you might as well forget about them. They only modify behaviour in med and high sec systems, making nav sites tricky. In this case you'll use interdiction in SC and pick off weak targets (pushing up civil unrest) as most sec ships are not easily destroyed in such a short timeframe (not without incurring considerable damage anyway).
In low sec areas, any ship can be used to kill since you face panda car cops- so you can only really use the counting bounty method in med and high sec because there you need an advanced ship to remain viable.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
I don't think its been tested but I would expect ATR to count the same as SA. Never having seen one, do they turn up with the local controlling faction's tags, and do you get a murder bounty for killing one?
I don't think they have a system faction affiliation, much like navy presence in lockdown so thinking about it more (logically) they might not count.
It seems there are are a lot of people in support of shutting down murder as a means to affect BGS.
What I'm wondering is why no one is asking whether this group may have done something that warrant this murder onslaught.
With an anonymous party and all, no one knows the whole back story... Probably not even Jane.
not shutting it down, but a balancing of it as it has a grossly negative effect on the Bgs compared to anything used to counter it.