News Collect Wing Mission Balancing

[Andy918]

Strange. I own an Anaconda, a T10, a Beluga, though I very seldomly fly any of these ships and yet I play and I am having fun, and I don't grind. The idea that there is something like an end game or a necessity to get any of the big ships and best real fast completely eludes me. You people remind me of little monkeys well trained by mmo customs.

thats what i am saying.owning big ships doesnt mean end game.....means you no longer need to grind to get them,and you can actually go do something else ,something that is fun even tough it doesnt pay too much.

 

[Beetlejuice1686]

ive got to press the hard question here and ask for a detailed explanation about this so-called balanced in-game economy. From what I can tell over the past four years any given pilot’s credit balance has as much effect on game play as their Federal Admiral title or their status as an Imperial King, which is to say none at all.

Im pretty certain the #1 pastime in Frontierland is smoke-blowing, and my a.. ahh... you know where isn’t buying it. Just call a nerf a nerf already and stop dressing it up in fanciful sounding rhetoric. Titles are meaningless save for the ships they unlock. Credits are likewise meaningless, save for their utility in purchasing ships, modules and covering rebuy costs. Neither have any actual impact on any sort of balance that has never existed.

this +rep, well written cmdr, thanks for saying what i couldnt find the words for o7

 

[bookmite]

All I can contribute is, when you have all the ships you’ll ever need or use, what else are the whiners going to want...we have always had exploits that have made many players billionaires . It grates my gears when I read players whining that they can’t earn 100m per hour...jeees Cmdrs...Elite is what it is...you can’t blame FDev if you can only play 1-2 hours per week, or indeed slag off the people that can do what’s needed to get what they want out of the game . It’s there you just need to work for it , and grind is a big part of it...get on with it and suck it up butter cups .

Good luck to those who have cashed in, just consider yourselves lucky and move on

Just saying

 

[Conch]

If i solo a wing mission.

shouldn't I be paid 4x as much?

Yes you should, but it doesnt..

 

[Miko]

Yes you should, but it doesnt..

Actually the profit levels are around 4x as much in most cases of source missions, just not the highest paying ones asking for the most expensive goods. But generally you will find if you have to pay 1 million for some non lethal weapons, for example, then your payout for the mission will be around 4 times that investment amount.

 

[Rob At Work]

Greetings Commanders,

Following the 3.1 update, we have noticed that the credit rewards for Collect Wing Missions were higher than intended. This has had a negative impact on the balance of the in-game economy. As a result of this we will be adjusting the payouts for this mission type to reduce them and bring them in line with the intended rewards.

Thanks for your continued feedback and for your understanding. We will continue to look at missions to ensure they are balanced and offer the best experience for the game.

Poppycock - 3.1.2

 

[icantgetmyownusername]

Greetings Commanders,

Following the 3.1 update, we have noticed that the credit rewards for Collect Wing Missions were higher than intended. This has had a negative impact on the balance of the in-game economy. As a result of this we will be adjusting the payouts for this mission type to reduce them and bring them in line with the intended rewards.

Thanks for your continued feedback and for your understanding. We will continue to look at missions to ensure they are balanced and offer the best experience for the game.

yes ofcourse just nerf anything in the game the let's the players earn the much needed credits.... just making people want to quit....

 

[aRJay]

If i solo a wing mission.

shouldn't I be paid 4x as much?

The fee for the mission should be the same no matter how many people take it, it is the same mission after all.

How you and your wingmates devide it up should be on a shares basis, something like this for a wing of four including two escorts half the fee is split into 5 shares with two going to the mission taker the other half is divided according to how much cargo each ship delivered with a bonus to the escorts if everybody arrived intact.

 

[anonymouz]

I really have the Feeling the Game Grind is like these in F2P Games,
but ED isnt F2P, thats why such Grindfest doesnt really fit and will always made half or more of the Playersbase mad about Credit-Nerfs..
Beside that, as said alot by other Cmdrs, the Game has no real Economy.
So, wheres the Sense behind that?
I dont get it..

Frontier should make Wing-Missions only availlable for Wings,
means if i play alone i dont want to see them in the Board.
And then they can adjust the Reward more accurate, for Solo AND Wing Players, because there is no Room to exploit it anymore, and no Reason to nerf it to zero rewards.
And this doesnt mean cut everything down, so the Missions getting senseless, it means give the Players what theyre working for and not less.
I dont wanna take a Mission for 800k to kill 90 Ships, when my Insurance is over 10M and i could risk a Rebuy.
Such Missions are just Bull.. & senseless to do.
But nerfing everything just because they lack to code a better System, just brake the Game much more, in my Opinion.
If thats the only Way for Frontier to defend the halfdone Missions System, by nerfing everything down to nothing, just to stop Players who take advantage of the lack of an better System...
Holy Moly.... i wont think about that much longer.

 

[Arguendo]

The fee for the mission should be the same no matter how many people take it, it is the same mission after all.

How you and your wingmates devide it up should be on a shares basis, something like this for a wing of four including two escorts half the fee is split into 5 shares with two going to the mission taker the other half is divided according to how much cargo each ship delivered with a bonus to the escorts if everybody arrived intact.

That would require thinking and good programming. Not gonna happen

 

[Andrei_Sparrow]

If my friend were to try sell his engineered Corvette, the game would offer him 780-800 million creds for it. USED!

Now imagine how much money was invested into it... And I still struggle to engineer my python, the only decent combat ship I have. Why? I can't find a way to make good money. g armor costing 140-150 million for the build I'm going/dreaming for/of.

I have a life, I can play so much as 2 hrs per day at most, if I'm lucky to be able to play at all...

 

[Tigir]

Greetings Commanders,

Following the 3.1 update, we have noticed that the credit rewards for Collect Wing Missions were higher than intended. This has had a negative impact on the balance of the in-game economy. As a result of this we will be adjusting the payouts for this mission type to reduce them and bring them in line with the intended rewards.

Thanks for your continued feedback and for your understanding. We will continue to look at missions to ensure they are balanced and offer the best experience for the game.

Let us look at the huge maths problem with wing missions, shall we?

Here we have two missions for survival equipment. The standard mission has a payout of roughly 13101 credits/ton, the wing mission has a payout of roughly 1383 credits/ton.

If wing mission payouts were corrected the wing mission payout would be roughly 75 million credits, which would be reasonable and expected in any working economy.

 

[Alecz]

I got about 600 million, sunday, from 11am to 7pm. Outbreak wing missions. Some of theses missions got me 50 million each. Did with a T9. I could've got about 1 billion, but the resource got unavailable at the closest stations, and i wassnt in the mood of doing multi-jump runs.

I much rather prefer multi-jumps if the final station is close to the star than single-jump when the station is far away from the star.

If i solo a wing mission.

shouldn't I be paid 4x as much?

The mission description clearly says it is "intended to be completed as part of a wing", otherwise, you barely break even with the collect missions.
I guess Fdev wants to encourage (provide content for) wings so they apply handwaivium to multiply the reward by the number of wing mates.
This is likely also why the 50M reward for 100 tons is too much, because in effect it would be 200M for 4 commanders in relatively small ships (25t cargo only).

The whole Wing Missions need to be addressed. Not only 80% (4 of 5) of the board is filled with them, but doing them alone in a single play session sure feels like a grind.

 

[Adastr4]

As someone who has played the game since it was in beta on the Xbox ... and has over 39 WEEKS of actual "real life" game time in the statistics ... and is one rank away from being triple Elite (finally, gasp) ... I would like to offer just a little constructive criticism to the hard working, diligent "overseers" at Frontier ... based on my "time" in the game.


Elite Dangerous is indeed a phenomenal game. (And people would not be having fits over changes in it, or the lack of changes, if that was not so.) But with the greatness of the game comes a phenomenal responsibility on Frontier’s shoulders ... especially since the “community” has helped them TREMENDOUSLY with the game.


Below the surface, Elite Dangerous holds a breadth of options available and definitely something for everyone ... from PVP-ers who enjoy the predatorial camaraderie and competition (or lack of it with an easy target LOL), to the PVE-ers who just enjoy playing the environment and background sim. Its a truly amazing sandbox of our very own milky way galaxy to play in.


But with that being said, no gamer enjoys the feeling of having something "taken away" or "balanced" in ways that really annoy them or their close knit group of gaming buddies, whether PVP-ers or PVE-ers ... especially in a game they feel really invested or involved in.


So to Frontier, I honestly ask them to consider the shoe being on the other foot for a moment with this question ... what if the “community” had a similar viewpoint and felt that they should just “take away” or “balance” future in-game purchases because Frontier was receiving too much “in-game” currency (and time) from them ... for what they get back in return. What if they decided to invest in other games with friends (even if temporarily) because the “return” on their time investment was not all that satisfying at the moment.


Well ... I don’t know of a single gaming “company” that would think that’s a good idea (for their bottom line) for customers to consider “taking away” or “balancing” their free time elsewhere in another game (even temporarily) for a lack of enjoyment ... but yet many of Frontier’s decisions (which sometimes appear to be knee jerk reactions) effect the “virtual” bottom line (and grind time) of the gamer, or the group of gamers, who enjoy playing and just want to feel like they’ve accomplished or attained something together.


I have never understood Frontier focusing so much on mission “credit balancing" in the game ... because the simple truth is this ... it doesn't really matter HOW MANY CREDITS you have in the game (or how many some may feel is “too much”) because YOU STILL HAVE TO “TIME” GRIND for Engineers, and Ranks, and Merits, and Commodities, and Materials, and Reputation and Influence ... to open up those Engineers and obtain those Power Play and Special items. Even a “competent” Cutter commander will tell you it can be a little nervous or scary sometimes flying one without engineering. Credits can only get you so far and you can’t really buy that bromellite for Bill ... if you know what i mean.


You can be rolling in BILLIONS in the game ... and its kind of unsatisfying (at least for me) without actually “investing” in the social enjoyment of the simulation and the grind itself.


Some of the most fun I have had in this game has been experienced in groups "socializing" with others, and working together to accomplish a Mission or Goal ... and then relishing in the big payout or victory accomplished together.


So, my suggestion to Frontier (as one who loves the game) is one of continued corporate “investment” ... and not retreat, or bust, or lockdown, or civil unrest ... when it come to mission payouts that the “community” feels a sense of accomplishment completing. Because i don’t believe you want the community contemplating “taking away” or “balancing” their “real life” time and treasure ... and investing it somewhere else, even if temporarily.


Keep investing in ways to build on the great social enjoyment derived from this wonderful piece of code.

I came here basically to say this. Very well put.

 

[cmdr_MugenNova]

That would require thinking and good programming. Not gonna happen

Thats not where the problem is at all in this economy thing, rewards from missions should not be shared depending on effort made to complete the mission from each commander because wing missions are missions that require best the full support of the wing to be completed for the reward to be "profitable" , let us say you have a Mining wing mission that requires you to mine 150 Low temperature diamonds and you will get 60m ,
as a wing you will go with 1 type 10 mainly for cargo, 1 miner ship and 2 Combat ships to defend against any attack, so... once the type 10 turns the 150 Ltd, all 60m should be given to the type 10 ? because the mission requires you to deliver them, they dont care how you got them, they want the mining of 150 Ltd, if you think you can do it alone go ahead, but you make sure you are safe of any risks, so you get the full support squad with you and thats why they get rewarded regardless.

The economy will be real economy when, if System B has a high need for commodity X, but system A, C, and D have limited supplies, they obviously wouldn't want to give up their entire supply to system B, so system B would be forced to pay high prices for commodity X because of their need for it and the limited supply. This doesn't happen. Payouts are standardized based on the mission type alone.

Solution, give your player base full control of a system economy, how ? Trough factions, if a player faction happens to reach the % needed to be the controlling faction they should control the system economy if not they should atleast be able to control their mission payouts.

1,Eh look, we have high security, bounty rewards will be nerfed by the faction because they have high security, threat level is low, if low security = Higher payout.
2, This station is being attacked, transporting passengers will pay 10x as much as normally would ( not the 200k for 30 passengers crap ), and you wont be able to transport a infinitive ammount of VIP, Example: 3000 VIP in station... once players have transported all of them no VIP missions would pop-up anymore, and only "Normal" or refugees would be next.
Hers the funny part that can be done with this:
-Alliance station passengers will pay as much VIP or not,
-Federation station, VIP pay more buy you will still see normal or refugees missions to accept
-Empire, Only VIP will pop-out until they are all out and then it will be ranking accordingly, from King to slave.

I dont know how hard it is to be programmed, but if we went from 32-bit game to this stage I am pretty sure that this could be accomplished.

 

[sgto_york]

ive got to press the hard question here and ask for a detailed explanation about this so-called balanced in-game economy. From what I can tell over the past four years any given pilot’s credit balance has as much effect on game play as their Federal Admiral title or their status as an Imperial King, which is to say none at all.

Im pretty certain the #1 pastime in Frontierland is smoke-blowing, and my a.. ahh... you know where isn’t buying it. Just call a nerf a nerf already and stop dressing it up in fanciful sounding rhetoric. Titles are meaningless save for the ships they unlock. Credits are likewise meaningless, save for their utility in purchasing ships, modules and covering rebuy costs. Neither have any actual impact on any sort of balance that has never existed.

Thank you for saying what I could not express.

 

[Alecz]

Let us look at the huge maths problem with wing missions, shall we?



Here we have two missions for survival equipment. The standard mission has a payout of roughly 13101 credits/ton, the wing mission has a payout of roughly 1383 credits/ton.

If wing mission payouts were corrected the wing mission payout would be roughly 75 million credits, which would be reasonable and expected in any working economy.

Don't forget that in FDev's mind the payout is always multiplied by 4 (because it's a wing mission). So in fact the reward becomes 4 x 1383 = 5532 Cr/Ton. Which is still less than half the standard mission, yet it takes on average a minimum of 1443 tons / CMDR to complete vs 120 T (over 12 times more effort)

Please Fdev, just remove them or put them on a different board already, or increase the payout by a factor of 3 to make it worth it even for a wing of 4:
3 x 8M = 24M for 1443 ton/cmdr => 16,000 cr/ton (maximum in a wing of 4 with multiple trips!)

 

[Tigir]

Don't forget that in FDev's mind the payout is always multiplied by 4 (because it's a wing mission). So in fact the reward becomes 4 x 1383 = 5532 Cr/Ton. Which is still less than half the standard mission, yet it takes on average a minimum of 1443 tons / CMDR to complete vs 120 T (over 12 times more effort)

Please Fdev, just remove them or put them on a different board already, or increase the payout by a factor of 3 to make it worth it even for a wing of 4:
3 x 8M = 24M for 1443 ton/cmdr => 16,000 cr/ton (maximum in a wing of 4 with multiple trips!)

And that may bring us to a "real world" understanding failure.
When you contract to have a large amount shipped; the payment is large, and that payment is used to pay participating haulers.
Since Elite has a hardlock of 50 million per mission, the following example shall use that.

Example:
A contract to ship 5772 tons with payout of 50 million credits; upon completion the payout should be divided among the participating entities, such that two commanders participating would receive 25 million apiece, or a full wing of four would receive 12.5 million apiece.

This is how you have a truly balanced wing mission mechanic.

 

[Beetlejuice1686]

Let us look at the huge maths problem with wing missions, shall we?



Here we have two missions for survival equipment. The standard mission has a payout of roughly 13101 credits/ton, the wing mission has a payout of roughly 1383 credits/ton.

If wing mission payouts were corrected the wing mission payout would be roughly 75 million credits, which would be reasonable and expected in any working economy.

inb4 another nerf in another hour or so, just for solo missions this time!!!

 

[Guywired]

And that may bring us to a "real world" understanding failure.
When you contract to have a large amount shipped; the payment is large, and that payment is used to pay participating haulers.
Since Elite has a hardlock of 50 million per mission, the following example shall use that.

Example:
A contract to ship 5772 tons with payout of 50 million credits; upon completion the payout should be divided among the participating entities, such that two commanders participating would receive 25 million apiece, or a full wing of four would receive 12.5 million apiece.

This is how you have a truly balanced wing mission mechanic.

Or better yet, as I suggested when Multi-crew first came out.. allow the owner of the mission to decide the participants payouts but still have it pull from the total amount awarded, not just pay each person the full amount.