That's got nothing at all to do with the point I made.
Why does my 34th century spaceship have no autopilot OR how do you accept the hyperjump grind?
- Thread starter sc_neo
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That's got nothing at all to do with the point I made.
Well, it's up to you to decide to join them in their insulting behaviour.
I see you yourself saw the flaw in your reasoning when you went "interesting and/or challenging". If I want challenging in games, I'll play They Are Billions on Armageddon setting. If I want excitement, I'll go skydiving. But I also enjoy watching cycling or snooker, which bores the life out of others. It's almost as if people can be more faceted than have one particular mindset which they apply to all aspects in their life.
But, by all means, extrapolate the way someone prefers the travel mechanic in Elite Dangerous, to whether they would adapt and learn new processes. From my point of view it's a ludicrous deduction, but one you're welcome to.
So, you think many people would be happy sitting there idly for, oh 12 hours or so while their ship auto-piloted it's way to Colonia? Well I make it 400 with my jump range and that wouldn't take as long, but if you want to make the journey in a 25ly jumper feel free. The thing is, and this is what isn't being dealt with, what are you going to replace the jump screens with? One continuous jump for many hours, talk about boring. A mini game for every 25ly so you can continue jumping? I'll take the loading screens thanks! This is not a "loading screens are better than mini-games" comment, it's simply this, if you think loading screens every jump are painful wait until you've played that mini-game a thousand times to get somewhere! Or an autopilot jumping over and over again until you get there while you sit there and watch the screen? But I will give you that, you can have your mini game, as long as it is optional, I give it a week before we have complaints flooding in about it!
Oh yes, the thing is I have almost never done 100 jumps without finding something worth looking at, in most cases many things to distract me, and my trips to Colonia usually end up taking days or even weeks. I've never gone out thinking "I'm going to jump to Colonia." It's more, "yes I will probably end up at Colonia eventually, but there's plenty to do on the way even if it takes me 5, 10 or 20kly the wrong way." If we did mini-game interdiction to just continue jumping I can't imagine the number of things I would have missed altogether. That system with 4 ELW in a row for instance, the 25m klm diameter rings around that red dwarf, this planet with 30+ brain tree sites, all missed because I was to busy playing mini game interdictions instead of exploring the systems I pass through on my way.
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I commute to work on the local tram system. It takes me about 20 minutes to travel the five miles or so in to town.
It's actually very walkable. Some people do. It follows the canal and it's quite a nice walk I believe. I've not actually done it myself, but I've walked bits of it, and it's very pleasant. It's a bit slow though. Bits crossing roads are also a bit hairy at times.
By taking the tram I'm missing out on all the interesting bits along that journey. Plants & animals. Collisions. Crime. Other people. In contrast, the tram is not a place for conversation.
And yet... I still take the tram. It's quicker, and it gets me to the town centre quickly which is what I want to do.
Where was I? Oh yes, an analogy.
There is nothing interesting about hitting the J key multiple times. I don't believe anyone who says it is. My assumption, maybe wrong, is that those people who support the current mechanic probably are actually supporting the fact it takes time to get somewhere. That time makes it in some way worthwhile to them: I propose it adds a rarity to the journey which they put a value on.
I obviously don't share that value as you can tell from my commuting patterns. My goal is to get from A-B quickly and safely. I'm happy to pay extra for that convenience: I'm trading it against time doing something I don't want to do. Walking to work is slow and I suspect after a few trips, tedious.
So. Quite simply, I think a change to the current system is welcome. Long-jumps (automated jumps) should be a thing. I don't mind if there's some kind of commercial deal involved: those discovering a system get a beacon 'auto deploy' that earns them a small amount of money every time someone long-jumps through their system on the route planner (>300ly or whatever)... meh, who cares what incentive there is. Just as in the days gone by when everyone walked/cycled/rode a horse in to town, those pioneers have made it possible for me to fast travel to the centre of town: it's progress. Let's put it in Elite. Whatever the mechanic (visited stars/visited starts by me only/any wormhole specific destination/aegis beacons) involved.
It's actually very walkable. Some people do. It follows the canal and it's quite a nice walk I believe. I've not actually done it myself, but I've walked bits of it, and it's very pleasant. It's a bit slow though. Bits crossing roads are also a bit hairy at times.
By taking the tram I'm missing out on all the interesting bits along that journey. Plants & animals. Collisions. Crime. Other people. In contrast, the tram is not a place for conversation.
And yet... I still take the tram. It's quicker, and it gets me to the town centre quickly which is what I want to do.
Where was I? Oh yes, an analogy.
There is nothing interesting about hitting the J key multiple times. I don't believe anyone who says it is. My assumption, maybe wrong, is that those people who support the current mechanic probably are actually supporting the fact it takes time to get somewhere. That time makes it in some way worthwhile to them: I propose it adds a rarity to the journey which they put a value on.
I obviously don't share that value as you can tell from my commuting patterns. My goal is to get from A-B quickly and safely. I'm happy to pay extra for that convenience: I'm trading it against time doing something I don't want to do. Walking to work is slow and I suspect after a few trips, tedious.
So. Quite simply, I think a change to the current system is welcome. Long-jumps (automated jumps) should be a thing. I don't mind if there's some kind of commercial deal involved: those discovering a system get a beacon 'auto deploy' that earns them a small amount of money every time someone long-jumps through their system on the route planner (>300ly or whatever)... meh, who cares what incentive there is. Just as in the days gone by when everyone walked/cycled/rode a horse in to town, those pioneers have made it possible for me to fast travel to the centre of town: it's progress. Let's put it in Elite. Whatever the mechanic (visited stars/visited starts by me only/any wormhole specific destination/aegis beacons) involved.
Then why the fear of stopping and admiring the landscape from time to time?
It's not a fear. Some people like to just get where they are going, to admire the landscape they are trying to get to instead of the landscape that's on the way. If I'm driving to Las Vegas, I'm driving to Las Vegas. Aside from stopping to use a restroom, the barren landscape (hot desert) on the way is of no interest to me. Even better if someone is driving me there instead of doing the drive myself. We know what the landscape on the way looks like, different colored stars we see all the time and a loading screen that doesn't change. Until we can land on atmospheric worlds and scan/view things aside from rocks and take screenshots of rocky cliffs, many aren't going to care if they miss them on the way. Even then, there's still going to be people that are totally fine missing things on the way to where they want to go.
It isn't like the jump loop magically reveals anything to you, it's up to you to stop your jump loop to look around. If you aren't interested in looking around, the jump loop serves no purpose but to require your manual input X amount of times until you get to your destination. Which, really, that's the reason there isn't an autopilot and likely won't ever be one, Frontier wants you to do these things manually. They simply agree that it is part of 'flying your spaceship'. The automation starts and stops at docking. Why? Unclear, as docking is also an integral part of 'flying your spaceship', so there's that.
If you like stopping and looking at everything, yea, the current system is great for you. For those uninterested in the space between, it's not ideal, that's all. We're not ever going to get an autopilot, so it's all unnecessary arguing anyway, much like a lot of the discussions we have here. Not the first time autopilot has come up and won't be the last.
I don't understand this whole "pressing J" thing, what is this? I don't have a J on my ship's control interface, I have a momentary two-way switch that chooses either the SC engine or the Hyperspace engine. Then I push the throttle to max and that engages the drive.
Of course I'm not being serious, I know what people mean but I've never hit the J button.
Of course I'm not being serious, I know what people mean but I've never hit the J button.
Well, for what reason would you even travel so far if not for the view? Everything you need in the game is within the bubble, weapons, ships, engineers, guardians, thargoids, stations, CMDRs, planetary bases, etc.
Nebulae, famous Black Holes, Neutron fields, Formidine Rift space, Colonia, Guardian/Thargoid sites, Beagle Point. All destinations, not 'on the way' visuals. Maybe there's something on the other side of the bubble I decide I need to check out and I'm in a combat ship with lower jump range but the fact that it's going to take quite a few jumps (maybe 20+) discourages me because of the manual jump/scoop/jump loop. There are many cases where an autopilot might help get someone somewhere they wouldn't otherwise go because it's X amount of time not actually doing anything BUT jumping. Again, we're talking about the view of the destination not the view of the route to it. I already gave you the analogy, even if you don't agree because you play differently, you should be able to understand at this point.
Your post reminded me of an experience I had when I was posted overseas (USA, but I dare say this could happen anywhere). There were some Indian burial mounds about 3 hours drive from were I was based, so one day my family and another family decided to drive down and have a look. We headed off, stopped at a couple of interesting little towns along the way to a look, got to the site, wandered around, climbed the observation tower then had a picnic (that is when we found out having a bottle of wine was a bit NO NO but that is another story lol). While we were eating we were people watching as one does and something stuck us as strange. Probably 3 out of 4 car loads of people did the same thing. Drove into the parking lot, made a bee line for the tower, climbed the tower, stood there for about a minute, then down the tower, back in the car and gone. Very few actually just wandered around, they were that interested in getting to their destination I guess that they missed seeing most of what was on offer.
I see this thread as something akin to what we experience at that burial site. This isn't a discussion about exploration, it is a discussion about destination. Some players just want to get to where they have decided they must be, and they want to do it with the minimal time and effort. Others are quite content to meander through space, stopping to have a look at any interesting things they see along the way. Each have their merits of course. But without those that want to meander, that are curious about what is around them, we would not know about half the content of the game. No generation ships would have been found unless someone decided they this system deserved a look. No unique planets, all those things that players want to rush to see, wouldn't have been found unless someone took the time to go and look for them.
Indeed. Though I do think everything still would have been found because, as you saw in your example, there are both types of people. Also, don't let me fool you too much, I've done my share of meandering about taking a look at things, not as much as some, but enough. Some of the most fun I had was even puttering around in the bubble with the BDS discovering things my ship computer didn't have information on, which was even more manual. That isn't what the thread is about though, as you note, it's about autopilot for the sake of getting to a destination without hours of hyperjump inputs. What you sort of did there is say that with autopilot, we'd be missing so much in the lore and puzzles wouldn't have been solved, but I beg to differ because you can skip everything in between your start and destination right now, the only difference is that it is a manual affair.
But human nature being what it is, if an auto-pilot was introduced, players would turn it on, and watch Netflix or something. Very few would consider stopping and doing a honk, checking the system map and thinking, hmmm that looks interesting. No, the auto-pilot would become the norm, then there would be players complaining that it still takes too long, it is too boring, why can't we just click on any destination and get there instantly.
Well, those are actual sights so...
Well, this ones are not too far away. At most 3 hours of flight, with a proper ship and good use of neutron stars you can definetly do it in less than 2.
Those two are preciesly special because of their remote location. With AP they'll be efectively as close as any system within the bubble since you'll need no time investment to get there.
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No, not an analogy, a misrepresentations. People are arguing for these things on the basis of making exploration easier, and you have just posted about how you would catch the tram and avoid all the interesting things between you and the office, where you would presumably sit for 8 hours straight before catching the tram home and missing all the interesting things between home and office. You honestly don't see the difference between that and exploration?
All these nebula, black holes 25m km wide ring systems, brain tree sites, vulcanism, ancient ruins that people want to visit using fast travel, not a single one of them would be there to visit if it wasn't for explorers actually exploring rather than just bypassing it all. What exploration needs is more content, what people are asking for, nay demanding, is for a way to get places without actually interacting with anything on the journey! The essence of exploration is to see what's there, the essence of tram riding is to ignore everything between you are your destination. I have no problems with tourism, but lets call it what it is.
I think the game does need auto-pilot because doing jumps manually after 2000 f'kin hours of gaming time is bulsit but I also agree that it would kill the game mechanic. AP can be integrated into ED with limitations/caveats and with some care.
1/ Auto-Pilot hyperspace jumps are only available to star-systems already visited and logged by the Galaxy map. No exploration bypass here.
2/ AP does not include fuel scooping. You plan the trip.
3/ AP will still cause your ship to be vulnerable to attack/interdiction when using it during super cruise.
4/ AP does not decrease time it takes to do travel manually and only available in open mode and while in-game. (You can sleep but the ship computer must be online
).
5/ AP will only slowdown at the star-port or dock destination in SC and will still require pilot to come out of SC. Because ED is about piloting a spaceship.
6/ AP only available to specific ships and/or be rank locked for an engineer to make it available to your ship. ( Extra grind so that it keeps with ED's motto )
7/ AP only available when ship's mass is under x-amount to prevent easy trading automation. Fully loaded ships need manual piloting anywhere. At least the return trip will be easier if you are not loaded up and keep trading relevant as missions can be more profitable than trading.
These caveats will not be a cheat but a method to help keep the game balanced and take the absurdity out of ED and actually make its game design look more refined.
1/ Auto-Pilot hyperspace jumps are only available to star-systems already visited and logged by the Galaxy map. No exploration bypass here.
2/ AP does not include fuel scooping. You plan the trip.
3/ AP will still cause your ship to be vulnerable to attack/interdiction when using it during super cruise.
4/ AP does not decrease time it takes to do travel manually and only available in open mode and while in-game. (You can sleep but the ship computer must be online
).5/ AP will only slowdown at the star-port or dock destination in SC and will still require pilot to come out of SC. Because ED is about piloting a spaceship.
6/ AP only available to specific ships and/or be rank locked for an engineer to make it available to your ship. ( Extra grind so that it keeps with ED's motto )
7/ AP only available when ship's mass is under x-amount to prevent easy trading automation. Fully loaded ships need manual piloting anywhere. At least the return trip will be easier if you are not loaded up and keep trading relevant as missions can be more profitable than trading.
These caveats will not be a cheat but a method to help keep the game balanced and take the absurdity out of ED and actually make its game design look more refined.
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Well, for what reason would you even travel so far if everything is within the bubble.
So basically, you do not want to "invest" time into the game?
I don't mind either way, I most likely wouldn't use the autopilot any way, I do get it why some people want it but still... this is a space sim/pilot game.
Would this be a solution for you?
It needs the introduction of SRV control in multicrew and preferably ships that can go outside the influence range of the mothership.