Why does my 34th century spaceship have no autopilot OR how do you accept the hyperjump grind?

I think the game does need auto-pilot because doing jumps manually after 2000 f'kin hours of gaming time is bulsit but I also agree that it would kill the game mechanic. AP can be integrated into ED with limitations/caveats and with some care.

1/ Auto-Pilot hyperspace jumps are only available to star-systems already visited and logged by the Galaxy map. No exploration bypass here.

2/ AP does not include fuel scooping. You plan the trip.

3/ AP will still cause your ship to be vulnerable to attack/interdiction when using it during super cruise.

4/ AP does not decrease time it takes to do travel manually and only available in open mode and while in-game. (You can sleep but the ship computer must be online ;)).

5/ AP will only slowdown at the star-port or dock destination in SC and will still require pilot to come out of SC. Because ED is about piloting a spaceship.

6/ AP only available to specific ships and/or be rank locked for an engineer to make it available to your ship. ( Extra grind so that it keeps with ED's motto )

7/ AP only available when ship's mass is under x-amount to prevent easy trading automation. Fully loaded ships need manual piloting anywhere. At least the return trip will be easier if you are not loaded up and keep trading relevant as missions can be more profitable than trading.

These caveats will not be a cheat but a method to help keep the game balanced and take the absurdity out of ED and actually make its game design look more refined.

You nailed it. I am for autopilot now.
Grade A
 
I can sleep through the trip to Germany.
If I can sleep through a trip to Sag A* then it makes all parts of the galaxy the same.

Are you the pilot on those trips? See... I thought not... first of all.... there is a reason why there are TWO pilots, not one... and... no, the AP has to be monitored by humans. There will come a time where pretty much all vehicles will all be AI driven, but that is not today.
 
Umm... a couple of things to point out here. First, I said I would like an "offline autopilot" too, but what you did overlook was the huge CAVEAT that I brought with this "feature" - persistence servers (which, sadly, we currently don't have and I doubt we ever will). Secondly, what you also conveniently omitted is that time investment is not taken away anywhere. It is simply different. Watching netflix and mindlessly repeating the jumphonkscoop routine, is really engaging like 1% of the brain. Which I did, on a laptop with iGPU back when hauling from Sothis was a thing and I didn't want my missions to expire while doing much more important things :p Is it different from logging off? In my travel example, no.

See, I like to think about a broader picture, not cling to miniscule details. Having persistence servers would mean that while you're offline, your ship is actually doing all this travelling in game world and all sorts of nasty things can happen (yes, even in solo). Which would open some interesting "notification" gameplay for example, where you scramble from your cats or housework to save the ship which suddenly caught fire flying too close to a star (or something). Also it would allow other commanders in open (or npc/thargoids in solo) to jump on your ship while you're offline. Which also would add to the risk. But we don't have that, so we would need another "random event" probablity calculation. Which would suck anyway so in the non-persistent mode we won't have that, and rely on random failure instead.

Now back to the time investment. Regardless of persistence servers, the game should calculate where are you in the moment you log off, and then recalculate your position on the time of next login. It's not that hard, as all values to calculate it are on hand: plotted course (jump points), jump range, scoopables (I can imagine autopilot using only OBAFGKM (kgb foam) sequence stars), fuel scoop class, ship heat model... So basically it would need to calculate two approximated variables:
  • time for normal jump (fsd cooldown, safety buffers - not jumping from the corona to avoid heat and all that)
  • Once in 3-4-5 jumps (depending on ship tanks, jump range and fuel usage per jump) a longer pause for refueling and cooldown, move away from corona, and jump).
You can tweak individual parameters even more to make manual route still more appealing for the hard-core players, and leaving for example buckyballing intact.

So to list caveats/rules visibly for offline mode autopilot so that you don't miss it this time...

  • slower than manual application - safety first! Follows cooldowns, cannot jump while ship is overheated, moves away from the corona before jumping, waits for heat to subside - this makes buckyballing still equally valid as it is now
  • also, refuels slowly so that ship does not overheat. How many of you ignore pilots federation's rules of managing heat? No, you don't have to answer :p
  • cannot operate discovery scanner at all. Even the basic honk, handwavium - this is a complicated piece of equipment requiring human interaction (no one button press affair nossireee!). That would be harvesting credits which belong to real explorers who put in some effort.
  • although I am really opposed to software taking module slots, since I'm talking about a crutch not a solution, so it could take up a module slot. The proper mechanic would be having software grades to buy and leave modules for, well, actual modules, but we can't have that now
  • have a random failure chance tied to module class, checked each jump. If failure happens, ship drops from SC to normal space and stops. So yeah it might happen, that you wake up half way to colonia orbiting some backwater sun, and need to "repair" autopilot in order to continue using it, be it using amfu or synthesis, I don't care really. Would give amfu an additional purpose, too. Depending on the implementation this could mean two things:
    • persistence servers, you commander could suffocate if you don't log in and act quickly enough. Current game is quite reasonable with that time, having a consumption of a ton per hour give or take, so it leaves a few hours to actually react... unless you're unlucky and it happens on last jump before scooping :p. But there's reserve tank for that. In order to facilitate fuel rats gameplay, we could also have a "low power mode" where ship's computer switches all but lifesupport off, and waits with a "red alert" condition. Yes, that could also mean shield and hardpoints. It would give a wider window of opportunity to react, but it shouldn't be unlimited.
    • If not having persistence servers, nothing should happen like it is now with fuel rat rescues - as long as you remain offline you're "safe". Handwavium - life support mode draws little power from ships systems, so it can operate longer, but not unlimitedly - would also make for an interesting twist on fuel rats' gameplay.
  • can only follow OBAFGKM routes. Incidentally this also means that there could be regions of the galaxy available by manual jumping only!
  • cannot use neutron boosts
  • we could have a random interdiction chance, but based on what is currently rules for the bubble. IDK where the NPC spawn limit ends tbh, had a pirate python jump at me 600Ly from the bubble when I went on a small "exploring" trip to unlock the farseer clone, martuk was it? This would be only possible with persistence servers and notification system, because otherwise it would mean death to the commander (some of you would probably like it that way). I'm not sure we should have that in offline mode, simply for the rule that gameplay > realism. And frustration of being at work while your ship is blown to pieces. Or we could have a mobile client for ED like outlined in previous post with interdiction and get away minigame :p

Regarding "we can't have autopilot - it would make parts of the galaxy the same" - this is fundamentally wrong design choice, since they ARE the same. There should be a reason to go there, instead of just "bragging rights" of thousand J press. When our galaxy stops to be the same void planets everywhere, this problem will cease to exists. In other words it shouldn't be a role of a travelling mechanic to make systems more or less appealing. It is like using a concrete drill to treat tooth decay.

Regarding "fully loaded trade ships cannot use autopilot", this completely doesn't make sense (along with "only open" and "always on" requirement). Trade ships would be perfect first application for autopilot in any civilised part of the universe. It would make trade routes mean something in game actually, and open up interesting gameplay venues because you could predict where "All this tasty cargo" will end up en route. And we're experimenting with self driving trucks already.

Regarding "Open only" it also doesn't make sense. Because why? You want to attack all those people who you have deep hatred and disdain for making their life easier with an autopilot or, god forbid! a DOCKING COMPUTER, BLASPHEMY! Well, no. If it's for the strawman "but... but... exploration should be dangeroooous!", it is not autopilot role to make exploration dangerous. Autopilot role is to automate travel from A to B. Not exploration. There can be all sorts of dangerous things out there, and we're limited only by lead designer's imagination and fdev's resources (oh, wait... ;-( )

Regarding "your computer must always be on" - it is a silly strawman trying to again, punish people for having the audacity to want an autopilot in the first place! It is similar to that shortsighted programmer saying "I refuse to put comments in my code! It was hard to write, it should be hard to understand!". This passive-agressive stance has nothing to do with good game design, and actually incurs additional real money costs and (laugh all you want) fire hazard to a real life person leaving electrical equipment on while sleeping. Over someone's butt being hurt about someone's else gameplay. Seriously?
 
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Choice is always a good thing. If I could fit an autopilot sub-routine to the computer I would. It doesn't have to be intelligent. By that I mean that I would have to plot the jumps myself beforehand, making sure I end somewhere I could scoop more fuel if needed. If the ship is interrupted in any way it would switch off, leaving it up to me to sort out whatever is happening.

Sounds simple in theory. Probably not so simple to code into the game so could be expecting too much.
 

sollisb

Banned
Are you the pilot on those trips? See... I thought not... first of all.... there is a reason why there are TWO pilots, not one... and... no, the AP has to be monitored by humans. There will come a time where pretty much all vehicles will all be AI driven, but that is not today.

See, that's not exactly true now is it?

TWO pilots are there because one pilot mighjt up and die. One pilot is there because consumers (people) feel it is necessary.

The fact is a plane can take off and land at any CAT III field without any human intervention, and truth be told, do it a magnitude more safely.

The only reason for pilots is for 'passenger comfort' not passenger safety..
 
Sounds simple in theory. Probably not so simple to code into the game so could be expecting too much.

Actually there are users on this forum who did this doing only external image processing and feeding macro keys to the game based on such processing. Sadly it breaks the ToS, so you won't get it published here... And it's a magnitude of complexity higher than doing it inside the engine where all needed variables are readily available... So no, it doesn't look complicated and it's even easier for offline mode - I've outlined I think most of conditionals which need to be followed.
 
The only reason for pilots is for 'passenger comfort' not passenger safety..

This, and redundancy, and "exception handling" (change course to another airfield, emergency landings on a backwater airport, in flight failures like engine fire, dumping fuel, sudden meteo changes etc.)
 
I wouldn't trust an autopilot to fuel scoop without burning me to a crisp. And definitely trust it to fly around the star and not through it. Or evade that cheeky interdiction one second before engaging jump.

P.S. Automating grind does not make the grind go away, it only removes you from the picture.

Please make this happen, FD. It would be so fun to just pirate the crap out of lazy autopilot traders.

Given how easy it currently is to make the AI fly into stars and planets, I'm pretty sure you'll just be dropping into low-wakes to watch the autopilot cook itself trying to jump out .
All these responses to the OP would be a prelude to the amount of rage quit threads from all those who trusted their auto pilot to have "God Mode" abilities that would avoid all the aspects of the game that lead you to the rebuy screen if your not paying attention. I suppose FD could develop a smartphone app that linked your player/ship to the servers even if you were logged out of the game on your computer.
If they did develop that, imagine all the hysterically funny and entertaining threads we could read about what Cmdr's had to drop and frantically try to log back into the game to avoid doom and destruction..... [haha]

I support a limited auto pilot that works for a certain time and has to be re-activated when you jump to a new star system.
I could see this being implemented as some sort of logging/recording feature of the nav computer for traders who develop regular routes between systems. But again, without having the ability to avoid random (pronounced Thargoids, gankers, pirates, griefers, etc) objects you could still be subjected to the OMG rebuy screen.
 
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regarding #7: when auto-pilot is tied to open game and interdiction is possible I think there need not be any further deterrent to traders using AP...

On the contrary, I'd love to switch to turrets and pound the heck of my attacker while my ship lines up for hi-wake escape. Or be able to use point defense manually to shot down those grom anti-fsd missiles. That sort of thing. It's obvious you still wouldn't stand a chance against a PvP build, but for a daring sidewinder NPCs trying to go for "all that tasty cargo" it would work just fine :) See? New gameplay opportunities.
 
See, that's not exactly true now is it?

TWO pilots are there because one pilot mighjt up and die. One pilot is there because consumers (people) feel it is necessary.

The fact is a plane can take off and land at any CAT III field without any human intervention, and truth be told, do it a magnitude more safely.

The only reason for pilots is for 'passenger comfort' not passenger safety..

Is there any subject you aren't an expert on?

Yep, we don't need no stinking pilots, every landing is performed in perfect weather, no cross winds, in fact no weather at all. Pilots are just there for balance, to keep the nose of the aircraft down.

The stupidity of some comments here just beggars belief!
 
See, that's not exactly true now is it?

TWO pilots are there because one pilot mighjt up and die. One pilot is there because consumers (people) feel it is necessary.

The fact is a plane can take off and land at any CAT III field without any human intervention, and truth be told, do it a magnitude more safely.

The only reason for pilots is for 'passenger comfort' not passenger safety..

That's some low quality fiction narration right there.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
On the contrary, I'd love to switch to turrets and pound the heck of my attacker while my ship lines up for hi-wake escape. Or be able to use point defense manually to shot down those grom anti-fsd missiles. That sort of thing. It's obvious you still wouldn't stand a chance against a PvP build, but for a daring sidewinder NPCs trying to go for "all that tasty cargo" it would work just fine :) See? New gameplay opportunities.

See? this guy gets it.

When all you need AP to do is "straight and level" or even allow it to set up an escape - much the same as a macro set up on a keyboard, why would that be so hard for FDev to implement?

And for those that don't like it, here's a suggestion - DON'T USE IT.
 
One of those that don't like the idea is Frontier.

And indeed it looks like they're not going to use it.
Correction... One opposed to it was Michael Brookes - the same brilliant mind who said that exploration is feature complete or something like that.
Sandro Sammarco seems much more open to shaking stale gameplay but needs some confidence in his decision as the open only pp testing thread has shown.

Also I am not so sure about what frontier likes or not because they didn't show much during last two years of horizons. Currently my opinion of a resource starved project still stands. And if it's true then they have lots of more important work in exploration area to be done chop.
 
Correction... One opposed to it was Michael Brookes - the same brilliant mind who said that exploration is feature complete or something like that.
Sandro Sammarco seems much more open to shaking stale gameplay but needs some confidence in his decision as the open only pp testing thread has shown.

Also I am not so sure about what frontier likes or not because they didn't show much during last two years of horizons. Currently my opinion of a resource starved project still stands. And if it's true then they have lots of more important work in exploration area to be done chop.

One thing is clear, they do not like fully powered AP since some people have made third party apps that do just that yet FD has discouraged people to use them.
 
One thing is clear, they do not like fully powered AP since some people have made third party apps that do just that yet FD has discouraged people to use them.

I think they aren't into 3rd party versions of it because 3rd party versions of it essentially play the game for you at all levels and can be programmed to do BGS work, if someone doesn't have one going already. Now that's way too far for me.
 
See, that's not exactly true now is it?

TWO pilots are there because one pilot mighjt up and die. One pilot is there because consumers (people) feel it is necessary.

The fact is a plane can take off and land at any CAT III field without any human intervention, and truth be told, do it a magnitude more safely.

The only reason for pilots is for 'passenger comfort' not passenger safety..

LOL...

It takes 16 hours to fly to some places... of course the second pilot is there to allow for the first pilot to have a nap and vice versa. Secondly, when did you see pilots demonstrating security procedures? And those are very much for passenger confort. Both the procedures as well as the flight assistants that do those.

If what you say is true, then why the hell did this happen?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32072218

And... if, again, what you say is true... why wouldn't people want to fly with planes that removes the human error, or, in that particular case, suicide by mass-killing?

EDIT: In Denmark, as an example, they have removed a lot of train-drivers to replace them with AI. This was back in 2002, when they introduced this... the film is from 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZH3snsSv44

Again... removing human error, and people seem fine with it.
 
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One thing is clear, they do not like fully powered AP since some people have made third party apps that do just that yet FD has discouraged people to use them.

Completely different reason in my opinion. This is a multiplayer game and allowing third party apps would quickly open a can of worms of the cheater kind. Thus, there is a blanket statement in the Terms of service which forbids such modifications.
 
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