General / Off-Topic Good news!

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Just don't become one of "those" cyclists. The ones that ride down the middle of the road tying up traffic, obeying zero traffic laws while screaming at cars "share the road!" and giving the finger.


I don't know where you live, but in my state bicycles have considerable rights in traffic, including taking the whole lane if necessary, and in many cases some laws don't apply.
I suggest it's no "skin off of your back" and to get versed in your local traffic laws.
People claiming "share the road" are usually well armed with statutes and rules!
Fair warning.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
Fortunately, my town is extremely cycle friendly, including the connection to the neighbour town: A road that only buses, bicycles and emergency services are allowed to use. No private cars.
 
I don't know where you live, but in my state bicycles have considerable rights in traffic, including taking the whole lane if necessary, and in many cases some laws don't apply.
I suggest it's no "skin off of your back" and to get versed in your local traffic laws.
People claiming "share the road" are usually well armed with statutes and rules!
Fair warning.

I completely agree and take no personal issue with cyclist on the road. What I do take issues with are people on bikes who obey zero traffic laws. Such as:
Flying through stop signs.
Not using the bike lane when required by law. (Hence biking down the middle of the road giving the finger, which is a traffic violation complete with a ticket and fine in my state. )
Not properly signaling for turns.
Weaving in and out of traffic.
Merging from a side walk into traffic busy traffic with no signaling
Smacking my car with your hand because instead of waiting like everyone else you decide to weave in and out between cars where no one can see you.

Sharing the road means (in a lot of places) following 95% of all traffic laws that you would be following driving a car, as well as specific laws regarding bikes.
Jumping on a bike and going on the big boy road doesn't mean you can do whatever you like, which has been the case in most of my experiences with cyclists.

Take my previous comments as "educate yourself and don't be a " and I dislike bad motor vehicle drivers as well if that makes it better.

Just moved and looking to get a bike myself, safe cycling!
 
I completely agree and take no personal issue with cyclist on the road. What I do take issues with are people on bikes who obey zero traffic laws. Such as:
Flying through stop signs.

Again, just pointing out that is sometimes totally legal, and it makes a lot of sense.
It's argued to be much safer in fact.
It's called an Idaho Stop.

Since 2003, Idaho stop style bills, or resolutions asking the state to pass one, have been introduced in Oregon,[8] San Francisco,[32] Minnesota,[33] Arizona,[34] Montana,[35] Utah,[36] Washington DC,[37] New York City,[38] Santa Fe,[39] Oklahoma,[40] Edmonton,[41] Colorado,[42] California[43] and Arkansas[44] with varying degrees of legislative progress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop



Not using the bike lane when required by law. (Hence biking down the middle of the road giving the finger, which is a traffic violation complete with a ticket and fine in my state. )

And this is entirely legal in many contexts as well.
Point being even in states with those laws, most drivers are unaware of them.


Take my previous comments as "educate yourself and don't be a " and I dislike bad motor vehicle drivers as well if that makes it better.

Just moved and looking to get a bike myself, safe cycling!


Understood, and I have nothing to add with any of the rest.
Just pointing out that it's often not so cut and dried, and that in my experience, most people don't know their own cycling laws.
It's pretty much a trope, lol.

And of course, right of way doesn't mean you won't get smashed.
Prudence above all.

Have fun and be safe!
 

Deleted member 115407

D
I completely agree and take no personal issue with cyclist on the road. What I do take issues with are people on bikes who obey zero traffic laws. Such as...


You guys are both right, and arguing from different platforms I think.

Demascus is arguing against cyclists who have no regard for either traffic laws or basic courtesy. You can actually find youtube videos of these people - complaining about bad drivers while their videos are full of over-aggressive, unsafe riding.

Bob on the other hand is arguing on behalf of the cyclists who do tend to obey laws and ride courteously, but take unnecessary flak from misinformed motorists. I'm one of them - I wait for stop lights, yield for faster traffic where practicable, etc. I do practice Idaho stops - as a cyclist if I stopped for every stop sign it would take me twice as long to commute. Instead I can slow down, watch the approaches, and go through if I determine it's safe. I also take the lane provided there are two or more lanes to take - it's safer for everyone, and actually discourages bad drivers from passing too closely. Amazing how much drivers will respect you if you're respectful of them, and if you display confidence and competence on your bicycle. Even downtown, I often find drivers will anticipate my lane changes before I even signal them.
 
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You guys are both right, and arguing from different platforms I think.

Demascus is arguing against cyclists who have no regard for either traffic laws or basic courtesy. You can actually find youtube videos of these people - complaining about bad drivers while their videos are full of over-aggressive, unsafe riding.

Bob on the other hand is arguing on behalf of the cyclists who do tend to obey laws and ride courteously, but take unnecessary flak from misinformed motorists. I'm one of them - I wait for stop lights, yield for faster traffic where practicable, etc. I do practice Idaho stops - as a cyclist if I stopped for every stop sign it would take me twice as long to commute. Instead I can slow down, watch the approaches, and go through if I determine it's safe. I also take the lane provided there are two or more lanes to take - it's safer for everyone, and actually discourages bad drivers from passing too closely. Amazing how much drivers will respect you if you're respectful of them, and if you display confidence and competence on your bicycle. Even downtown, I often find drivers will anticipate my lane changes before I even signal them.


Yep, exactly.

On the other hand that doesn't absolve cyclists who go out of their way to annoy drivers, cause dangerous situations, and make it worse for everyone.
No argument there.
 
I am going to have a rant that could hijack this thread. If it does, please will you accept my apologies, Un1k0rn?

I feel that becoming a road user is a privilege to be earned, and NOT a right to be demanded.

I beileve that, should a person (any person) wish to become a road user, they need to take some officially approved test to prove that they are safe to be let out on the road by themselves. Most of the road users in Great Britain has to do so, but cyclists are an exception. When I was at Primary School (over thirty years ago) I successfully completed the Cycling Proficiency Test, which indicated that, at that time, it was safe to let me out on the roads by myself, as I was aware, not only of myself on the road, but of other road users. When I took my driving tests I felt that they were there, not to see if I could drive, but whether I was at a sufficiently safe level of competence to be allowed out on the road by myself (I am happy to say that I passed the theory and practical tests first time). However, as it has been well over a decade since I last rode on a bicycle I feel that I would need a cycling refresher course to make sure I was up to speed on the regulations and safe to be on the road before I returned as a cycling road user.

What has brought this on? I have been driving for over fifteen years now. I do a lot of driving (in the last three years I have clocked up over 90,000 miles in my company van), and I have seen road users that I would consider to be a danger to themselves and others (I am NOT saying I am a saint on the road; I probably have done things that others would consider to be unsafe; over time I had gained six points on my license for speeding (they have since expired)). I once did hit a cyclist (but this genuinely was NOT my fault; he pulled out in front of me when I was approaching a "Give Way" sign. He thought I would stop, but I was looking right to see if I could pull out at the junction, and the next thing I became aware of was a thump as he bounced off my bonnet).

This morning I was heading out to do my shopping. I was at a set of traffic lights, waiting to turn left. Just after the lights changed to green in my favour a cyclist shot through the lights. These are ones I use regularly, and I KNOW that the lights would have been red against him for thirty seconds at a minimum. The speed he was travelling at would indicate he (in my opinion) considered traffic lights to be an inconvenience to be ignored, and only applied to other road users. If I HAD hit him the only thing that would have proven the accident was not my fault was my dash cam.

I know that, for financial, legal and logistical reasons, it would not be possible to put CCTV at every road junction, or make road users show some indication that they are learners. I also accept that cyclists NEED to get road time in order to become better road users. I just wish that all people who wanted to become a road user had to undertake a test to show they are safe to be on the roads, and (possibly) take refresher courses at regular (say, every ten years or so) intervals to keep their skills and knowledge up to date (and, in the case of being involved in an avoidable accident, to take a simple test).

Thank you for reading this, and (once again) my apologies if I have hijacked this thread.
 
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... I once have hit a cyclist (but this genuinely was NOT my fault; he pulled out in front of me when I was approaching a "Give Way" sign. He thought I would stop, but I was looking right to see if I could pull out at the junction, and the next thing I became aware of was a thump as he bounced off my bonnet)...


That sounds like your fault to me.
 
That sounds like your fault to me.
A "Give Way" sign is not the same as a "Stop" sign. I was exiting a car park (Queens' Road in Reading), joining a dual carriageway. I could only turn left. There are (about 100 yards prior to where I was joining) a set of traffic light to allow traffic on the other carriageway to use this car park (these would stop the (on my side) oncoming traffic). The pavement the cyclist was on was not designated for shared pedestrian/cyclist usage, and the lowered kerbs are about 10 feet prior to the double broken lines indicating where (should I need to) I should stop. I was looking right, and I could see the oncoming traffic was being held by the aforementioned traffic lights (so the lanes I was joining was clear of traffic). THEN the impact between the cyclist and myself occurred. Even if I did have to stop I would still have hit him, as the junction was 10 feet after the lowered kerb stones.
 
A "Give Way" sign is not the same as a "Stop" sign. I was exiting a car park (Queens' Road in Reading), joining a dual carriageway. I could only turn left. There are (about 100 yards prior to where I was joining) a set of traffic light to allow traffic on the other carriageway to use this car park (these would stop the (on my side) oncoming traffic). The pavement the cyclist was on was not designated for shared pedestrian/cyclist usage, and the lowered kerbs are about 10 feet prior to the double broken lines indicating where (should I need to) I should stop. I was looking right, and I could see the oncoming traffic was being held by the aforementioned traffic lights (so the lanes I was joining was clear of traffic). THEN the impact between the cyclist and myself occurred. Even if I did have to stop I would still have hit him, as the junction was 10 feet after the lowered kerb stones.



I didn't suggest it was the same as a stop sign.
But you didn't "give way" or, from what I'm reading, even approach the intersection at the proper speed to be able to avoid the collision.
 
I didn't suggest it was the same as a stop sign.
But you didn't "give way" or, from what I'm reading, even approach the intersection at the proper speed to be able to avoid the collision.
I do not believe that I was either in the wrong, or unsafe in my driving. If there had been oncoming traffic from my right I could easily have stopped at the double broken lines (which clearly showed where vehicles should stop if required). What the cyclist did was to attempt to cross a road from a pavement assuming that the oncoming driver had noticed him and would stop. My attention at that time was focused to my right (where the oncoming traffic could be) and not to my left where there should not be anything to cause concern. The road from the car park approached the dual carriageway at an angle close to 90 degrees. The pavement was not (and still is not) designated for dual usage (there are wide pavements in Reading which are clearly marked for pedestrians and cyclists to use and share), so the cyclist should not have been cycling there. He assumed (as he told me) that I would stop at the point where he was crossing the road. The dropped kerbstones are around ten feet from the double broken lines, so THAT was the place I would stop should the need arise.

Logic told me that it should be safe to focus on the dual carriageway to my right. As I came out of the carpark I could see, at that time, my way ahead was clear to join the dual carriageway. I am then looking to my right (my head is turned to look at the previously mentioned traffic lights) to see if there is oncoming traffic. There should not be any vehicles coming from my left (the only place for things to be is that pavement), I have seen that the signs say "Give Way" which means that I only need to stop if the circumstances require it (as opposed to a "Stop" sign, which means that you HAVE to stop at the indicated junction), and that there is no traffic coming from the right requiring me to stop. Said cyclist does not stop, but leaves the pavement from the dropped kerbstones onto the roadway. I only see him (obviously way too late) as I am changing my focus from the potential traffic to my right to my intended path. It is at that point we are in collision.

If I had known there was a cyclist approaching from my left as I approached the junction it is likely (not certain, but likely) I would have given them more of my attention. However, when I first saw the junction upon exiting the car park there was nothing in view to my left. Having used this car park on numerous occasions I knew it was likely there would be traffic to my right, so I understandably moved my focus of attention to my right. If I had seen that the traffic was moving my way I could easily stop safely at the junction. Because my way was clear I did not come to a stop (as the "Give Way" sign did not require me to do so), but continued to head towards the carriageway (as I should have been able to join it safely). Because the distance from the car park to the junction was not great (50 - 100 yards) I was not travelling at a high speed, and I knew that (if I were able to continue without stopping) there was a tight 90 degree left turn coming up for me to negotiate. I do not know how fast I was moving, but it would have been less that 20MPH, and possibly as low as 10MPH.

In Great Britain cyclists are NOT kings of the roads, and they should behave safely according to the conditions of the road. In the incident where there was a collision I did not have a dash cam, but If I did it is likely that it would show I was not to blame. This morning, when that cyclist went through what was (from their point of the junction) lights at red (and that had not just changed to red, but would have been in that state for 30 seconds or more), that cyclist clearly was showing a disregard for any other road user (although he was wearing a crash helmet). I do recall hearing (although I do not know if it was just another tabloid scare story about what Brussels was trying to impose upon the UK) possible changes to road law in that, should there be an accident between a cyclist and a car, the car driver would automatically be in the wrong. If that was correct, and I had hit that cyclist this morning, the law would have 'known' that I had caused the accident. If the law were to accept the footage from my dash cam was valid evidence then the law could clearly see that I was not at fault, as there should not have been any traffic crossing the junction other than that from the road I was on.

I do try, when I am using the road, either as a driver or a pedestrian, to be safe and considerate (I am not always so, but I do try to be). If, for example, I am walking along the pavement and I see a vehicle wanting to pull into a driveway in front of me, I will stop and let them in (even though, technically, it is my right of way), especially if there is traffic behind them. That is just good manners. If road users were always safe and considerate there would be a lot less in the way of road incidents. Unfortunately this is not so.

I do NOT intend to discuss this incident further. My reasons for the post that started this was to explain my reasoning for why I believe all persons wishing to become road users should undertake training and tests to ensure they are safe to be out on the road. If the cyclist had completed such training he should have known that he should not have been cycling on that pavement, and (because of the layout of the junction) it would be likely my attention was focused not on him, but to my right. Competent road users who have undergone proper road training are not only aware of how THEY should behave on the road, they are aware of how other road users should behave and react.
 
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Deleted member 115407

D
HellRazor - we have testing and licensing for motor vehicles and people still drive like morons.

i don't think testing and licensing is the answer. It would be an unnecessary burden, and given that most cyclists are never stopped by police would fail massively. Virtually no would bother with it.

Stricter enforcement of traffic laws, and driver/rider awareness campaigns are a better solution, I think.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
Not to discourage you but perhaps to make you feel less "bad" about your weight:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/age-of-obesity-shaming-overweight-people

... basically, it is not down to people making "bad choices".

Well worth a read in my opinion.

P.S. Good luck in your endeavours. [up]

Thanks. Still, I want to work on shedding the pounds so I can actually do Stuff™ in the future.

Losing weight, once begun, is surprisingly easy, I must admit. Slow, but easy.

The more difficult task I have ahead of me is battling my emotional demons. I'm hoping the bike might be a useful tool in that endeavour.

Got my new saddle in the post today, from a friend. Going to install it this evening when it's cooler outside.
 
Thanks. Still, I want to work on shedding the pounds so I can actually do Stuff™ in the future.

Losing weight, once begun, is surprisingly easy, I must admit. Slow, but easy.

The more difficult task I have ahead of me is battling my emotional demons. I'm hoping the bike might be a useful tool in that endeavour.

Got my new saddle in the post today, from a friend. Going to install it this evening when it's cooler outside.
When you find a form of exercise that makes you feel good in yourself keep doing it. Richard Hammond always enjoyed running, and (after his major accident in a dragster), once he was fit enough, he went running again in all weathers. The endorphins released helped him to feel better, and probably helped his recovery.
 
21 stone bracket.

When I collect the bike though, I'll be ramping up the exercise regime, and intend on cycling most days, excluding torrential rain which frankly isn't safe, as I'm sure you know.

It's going good. I feel full after eating a lot less now.

I actually enjoyed a lot to ride my bike when tropical storms came in, it felt like I was reporting extreme weather or something.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
I actually enjoyed a lot to ride my bike when tropical storms came in, it felt like I was reporting extreme weather or something.

Did you... Did you post the weather findings online?

Yes?

YOU MONSTER!

I actually enjoyed a lot to ride my bike when tropical storms came in, it felt like I was reporting extreme weather or something.

Did you... Did you post the weather findings online?

Yes?

YOU MONSTER!
 
I do not believe that I was either in the wrong, or unsafe in my driving. If there had been oncoming traffic from my right I could easily have stopped at the double broken lines (which clearly showed where vehicles should stop if required). What the cyclist did was to attempt to cross a road from a pavement assuming that the oncoming driver had noticed him and would stop. My attention at that time was focused to my right (where the oncoming traffic could be) and not to my left where there should not be anything to cause concern. The road from the car park approached the dual carriageway at an angle close to 90 degrees. The pavement was not (and still is not) designated for dual usage (there are wide pavements in Reading which are clearly marked for pedestrians and cyclists to use and share), so the cyclist should not have been cycling there. He assumed (as he told me) that I would stop at the point where he was crossing the road. The dropped kerbstones are around ten feet from the double broken lines, so THAT was the place I would stop should the need arise.

Logic told me that it should be safe to focus on the dual carriageway to my right. As I came out of the carpark I could see, at that time, my way ahead was clear to join the dual carriageway. I am then looking to my right (my head is turned to look at the previously mentioned traffic lights) to see if there is oncoming traffic. There should not be any vehicles coming from my left (the only place for things to be is that pavement), I have seen that the signs say "Give Way" which means that I only need to stop if the circumstances require it (as opposed to a "Stop" sign, which means that you HAVE to stop at the indicated junction), and that there is no traffic coming from the right requiring me to stop. Said cyclist does not stop, but leaves the pavement from the dropped kerbstones onto the roadway. I only see him (obviously way too late) as I am changing my focus from the potential traffic to my right to my intended path. It is at that point we are in collision.

If I had known there was a cyclist approaching from my left as I approached the junction it is likely (not certain, but likely) I would have given them more of my attention. However, when I first saw the junction upon exiting the car park there was nothing in view to my left. Having used this car park on numerous occasions I knew it was likely there would be traffic to my right, so I understandably moved my focus of attention to my right. If I had seen that the traffic was moving my way I could easily stop safely at the junction. Because my way was clear I did not come to a stop (as the "Give Way" sign did not require me to do so), but continued to head towards the carriageway (as I should have been able to join it safely). Because the distance from the car park to the junction was not great (50 - 100 yards) I was not travelling at a high speed, and I knew that (if I were able to continue without stopping) there was a tight 90 degree left turn coming up for me to negotiate. I do not know how fast I was moving, but it would have been less that 20MPH, and possibly as low as 10MPH.

In Great Britain cyclists are NOT kings of the roads, and they should behave safely according to the conditions of the road. In the incident where there was a collision I did not have a dash cam, but If I did it is likely that it would show I was not to blame. This morning, when that cyclist went through what was (from their point of the junction) lights at red (and that had not just changed to red, but would have been in that state for 30 seconds or more), that cyclist clearly was showing a disregard for any other road user (although he was wearing a crash helmet). I do recall hearing (although I do not know if it was just another tabloid scare story about what Brussels was trying to impose upon the UK) possible changes to road law in that, should there be an accident between a cyclist and a car, the car driver would automatically be in the wrong. If that was correct, and I had hit that cyclist this morning, the law would have 'known' that I had caused the accident. If the law were to accept the footage from my dash cam was valid evidence then the law could clearly see that I was not at fault, as there should not have been any traffic crossing the junction other than that from the road I was on.

I do try, when I am using the road, either as a driver or a pedestrian, to be safe and considerate (I am not always so, but I do try to be). If, for example, I am walking along the pavement and I see a vehicle wanting to pull into a driveway in front of me, I will stop and let them in (even though, technically, it is my right of way), especially if there is traffic behind them. That is just good manners. If road users were always safe and considerate there would be a lot less in the way of road incidents. Unfortunately this is not so.

I do NOT intend to discuss this incident further. My reasons for the post that started this was to explain my reasoning for why I believe all persons wishing to become road users should undertake training and tests to ensure they are safe to be out on the road. If the cyclist had completed such training he should have known that he should not have been cycling on that pavement, and (because of the layout of the junction) it would be likely my attention was focused not on him, but to my right. Competent road users who have undergone proper road training are not only aware of how THEY should behave on the road, they are aware of how other road users should behave and react.


I think we need a diagram!

:D
 
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