Guardian SLF - magic ships?

[Weps]

Off topic, but...

You know what would have made more sense? Guardian SRVs. Using the very same technology to hover above a planet's surface. Spiky, blue glowing guardian SRVs, gliding effortlessly above dunes and crevices at high velocity, impaling whatever Thargoid surface units might exist out there.

Unfortunately I assume that there isn't enough surface gameplay to warrant new SRVs, as opposed to space gameplay and new SLFs.

 

[IPFreely]

I would really like the design of those Guardian SLF's to be the type of ships we use as our main ships,
They really look awsum IMO.
That is what I figure we should have had anyway.
- more exotic designs and each design having modules that are only for that model -
After all,,,,
Variety is the spice of life -
With ships and proprietary modules, it would add a more complex and engaging battle\exploration\trader scenario.
( I can't win against this guy, maybe I should run instead,), (this guy will be an easy kill), (this guy has mats - cargo I want), etc.
But I digress, I hope this addition of Guardian design type will be expanded to main ship designs -
Either included as an option for those currently in-game or as completely new ships.
- Guardian\Thargoid tech used to create new ship types?
- A mix of the two known alien ship types? -
Space has no direction - each way is the same -
Why do our ships face pointy end forward? Only the T-7 has a blunt front end if I remember correctly.
There is no atmosphere to penetrate in the game, ( at the moment), the ships could be flat faced or completely reversed without any adverse effects.
I would like to suggest a Mothership\ planetary shuttle approach to gameplay
- (The orbiting Mothership is vulnerable during planetary transfer of goods via shuttle)?
A lot of gameplay possibilities are available to FD which are currently being ignored or underutilized.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

I would really like the design of those Guardian SLF's to be the type of ships we use as our main ships,
They really look awsum IMO.
That is what I figure we should have had anyway.
- more exotic designs and each design having modules that are only for that model -
After all,,,,
Variety is the spice of life -
With ships and proprietary modules, it would add a more complex and engaging battle\exploration\trader scenario.
( I can't win against this guy, maybe I should run instead,), (this guy will be an easy kill), (this guy has mats - cargo I want), etc.
But I digress, I hope this addition of Guardian design type will be expanded to main ship designs -
Either included as an option for those currently in-game or as completely new ships.
- Guardian\Thargoid tech used to create new ship types?
- A mix of the two known alien ship types? -
Space has no direction - each way is the same -
Why do our ships face pointy end forward? Only the T-7 has a blunt front end if I remember correctly.
There is no atmosphere to penetrate in the game, ( at the moment), the ships could be flat faced or completely reversed without any adverse effects.
I would like to suggest a Mothership\ planetary shuttle approach to gameplay
- (The orbiting Mothership is vulnerable during planetary transfer of goods via shuttle)?
A lot of gameplay possibilities are available to FD which are currently being ignored or underutilized.

I'll say it first. Guardian hybrid tri-wing exploration ship.

 

[GunnerBill]

Clearly magic.

And others...

All you clever "maglev" chappies forgot to consider that in all your examples there is an opposing force that balances the magnetic repulsion i.e. gravity.

Are we lead to believe that in this Guardian SLF they've gone to the trouble of creating some force to hold a small wing a meter or so away from the fuselage, when they could of just attached it with some actual stuff?

 

[IPFreely]

I'll say it first. Guardian hybrid tri-wing exploration ship.

I like that idea also - so many possibilities not being utilized, sigh

 

[mossfoot]

I'll say it first. Guardian hybrid tri-wing exploration ship.

I like that idea also - so many possibilities not being utilized, sigh

I will say this - even though I don't like the direction (or at least feel it's a little too early for us to make hybrids - this game is being played in real time after all) at least they are going about it logically.

We started out with adapting their tech for modules and weapons, creating SLFs (which are technically unmanned) is the next logical step. If we do get guardian hybrid ships, we wouldn't jump straight there. At this rate, I'd expect to see one late next year or early the next, and starting with a small-pad ship only, with medium following six months later and a large as a major reveal either at the end of that season or start of the next.

Actually I think what would have worked better for me is if we had heard about prototypes of the SLF on GalNet instead of just releasing it. Word of a disastrous test run, improvements made, live trials... release some sketchy images of it from pilots in the region that caught a glimpse of it. For me, this just came out of the blue.

GalNet has made some big improvements (adding voice is a huge plus) but I do think there is a lot more that could be done, and how it can be used to increase the verisimilitude of the world and its advancements.

 

[Ashnak]

All you clever "maglev" chappies forgot to consider that in all your examples there is an opposing force that balances the magnetic repulsion i.e. gravity.

Nope. Just some people (I'm leaving out the passive aggressive insults here - sorry, but I just got home and my blood sugar is pretty low) automatically seem to assume that there's something magic about gravity - or performing a simplified experiment on a tabletop.

Are we lead to believe that in this Guardian SLF they've gone to the trouble of creating some force to hold a small wing a meter or so away from the fuselage, when they could of just attached it with some actual stuff?

As long as you don't know how the "blue glow" engines operate in detail, assuming that it's somehow "easier" to attach them through a material link is quite presumptious. Like telling the designer of a maglev train that it would be easier to let the train run on wheels. Or the designer of a mid-engine car that it would be easier to put the engine in front - after all, the horses were quite happy there.

And for the record - I don't think that the designers of these ships designed the winglets to float a meter or so from the pod. My personal assumption is that they arranged the minimum number of winglets in the simplest stable configuration and then hung the pod in the most obvious place. The winglets would probably fly just as well without that central pod, but you need some space where you can put the payload, i.e. the (virtual) pilot and guns.

 

[obliterator]

Actually I think what would have worked better for me is if we had heard about prototypes of the SLF on GalNet instead of just releasing it. Word of a disastrous test run, improvements made, live trials... release some sketchy images of it from pilots in the region that caught a glimpse of it. For me, this just came out of the blue.

I prefer when they're just straightforward with the content they add to the game. The whole galnet process just slows everything down.

 

[GunnerBill]

Nope. Just some people (I'm leaving out the passive aggressive insults here - sorry, but I just got home and my blood sugar is pretty low) automatically seem to assume that there's something magic about gravity - or performing a simplified experiment on a tabletop.



As long as you don't know how the "blue glow" engines operate in detail, assuming that it's somehow "easier" to attach them through a material link is quite presumptious. Like telling the designer of a maglev train that it would be easier to let the train run on wheels. Or the designer of a mid-engine car that it would be easier to put the engine in front - after all, the horses were quite happy there.

And for the record - I don't think that the designers of these ships designed the winglets to float a meter or so from the pod. My personal assumption is that they arranged the minimum number of winglets in the simplest stable configuration and then hung the pod in the most obvious place. The winglets would probably fly just as well without that central pod, but you need some space where you can put the payload, i.e. the (virtual) pilot and guns.

Well that's a hilarious answer - because you do know how the "blue glow" works??

It's all cosmetics. The main point is to some people this looks daft and others have used magnetism to provide an answer to how this could be done. My earlier point was that in the examples given (of maglev) there are two forces. Magnetism is a repulsive force that balances against the attractive force of gravity to lift the item to a fixed distance from its rest position. I.e. without a balancing force the wings would just fly off into space.

All these smug posters failed to consider that when they "pointed" and laughed at OP.

My feeling is that if Guardians can manipulate invisible forces to hang some wings off a fuselage (for whatever reason) why even have wings?

This, like yours, is a personal opinion about something that is entirely cosmetic and not even vaguely real

As for maglev train designers, the fact that most strains still do run on wheels...

"Despite over a century of research and development, maglev transport systems are in operation in just three countries (Japan, South Korea and China). " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev

 

[mossfoot]

I prefer when they're just straightforward with the content they add to the game. The whole galnet process just slows everything down.

Im not saying they should have started the galnet stuff now. It should have been six months ago, while they were working on it for this update. We have so many news stories that no one would know for sure it it was a hint or just world fluff, but once it was released (ie now) they'd see that they'd been somewhat aware of it for a while

 

[mossfoot]

My feeling is that if Guardians can manipulate invisible forces to hang some wings off a fuselage (for whatever reason) why even have wings?

Maybe because if they're free floating those engines on the wings have a greater degree of motion for maneuvering thrust than bolted down thrusters?

just a thought.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Maybe because if they're free floating those engines on the wings have a greater degree of motion for maneuvering thrust than bolted down thrusters?

just a thought.

for manouverability you see enough RCS thruster on the body

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… Magnetism is a repulsive force that balances against the attractive force of gravity to lift the item to a fixed distance from its rest position. I.e. without a balancing force the wings would just fly off into space.
…

…(embedded video)

The flux trapping effect is the most plausible explanation if magnetism is used - but I don't think it explains how the levitating/floating object is kept in place if a strong outside force is applied (especially forces perpendicular to the magnetic field).

 

[mossfoot]

for manouverability you see enough RCS thruster on the body

Well the way I see it it's early days. They have the tech but can't make the most of it. Just like how it took a while to go from successful single seater planes to ones that could carry passengers. Or bi-wing to single wing fighters during the world wars.

 

[Sylow]

Actually I don't mind the technical side here. I mean, how much more "magic" are these ships?
.
We already have skimmers, guardian sentries, etc. The spheres at guardian sites also float in the air. And hey, human ships also have shields. Those shields also usually are transparent, but they sure enough are "substantial" enough to absorb a lot of damage. So whatever technology our shields are, humans only use it for protection, while guardians also use it to hold different pieces of the ships together. I see no new magic here.
.
Where I am a bit more unhappy are different aspects:
.
1. The whole tri-angular concept. I find the "everything is tri-angular for guardians" quite boring. I mean, a lot of things humans create are rectangular. But we don't fly around in boxes. Or to be fair to Lakon and Core Dynamics: we don't always fly around in boxes...
.
So considering how much "it's all about triangles" I've seen on the guardian sites recently, I would've appreciated a guardian HYBRID fighter to look different.
.
2. Even more important, if the new SLFs weapons are along the line of already existing guardian weaponry, then these SLFs will be useful against Thargoid and human targets. Considering where guardian weapons generally stand and considering that SLFs can not be engineered, the new guardian "hybrid" fighters will outpace most of the existing SLFs.
.
So it's unfortunately quite likely, that the guardian SLFs eliminate the former variety of SLFs from players inventories. I would've preferred it, if we would've unlocked new SLF weapons and variants for the existing SLFs. This would've kept a bigger variety of SLFs in actual use.
.
Of course, my estimate on those guardian SLFs can be utterly wrong, but it's what I expect to happen.
.

 

[[VR] Goooost]

Why magic?
Because how do those free floating elements of the ship stick together without magic? I know it looks cool for some people, but ships like this annoy me a lot.

Correlated Magnetics. Right now they're kind of a gimmick and make for some interesting free floating knobs and such, but a few hundred years in the future, plus whatever hyper advanced guardian tech we discovered, should allow for this large scale interaction to be possible.

Or simply super-conducting magnetic levitation, the guardian tech might make it really easy to achieve that.

 

[SushiCW]

Every individual player has their own threshold beyond which it's no longer trivial to dismiss the things they find personally needling.

Remarkably well put. I'm quoting you in my sig.

 

[Ashnak]

Well that's a hilarious answer - because you do know how the "blue glow" works??

You're right - I don't.

All I can do is make a few assumptions:
- the designer of that fighter isn't a complete idiot. Proof of the pudding: the things actually fly.
- assuming he's an Engineer, he didn't hang those engines on fields (or rather, in a delicately shaped field) "just because he could" and liked the effect (and convinced his bosses/customers by just about the same arguments as I'm using that this is a technical necessity, so they would cough up the money for it). Admittedly, that argument is much weaker than the first one, especially if he's a really good engineer/scientist.

From these two assumptions I deduce that the engines operate in a way that makes an immaterial connection between them and to the payload pod the best option.

And I don't see them as "wings" and "fuselage". They operate in space, and so far haven't demonstrated any atmospheric capabilities (might become their Achilles' heel - watch this space!). I would interpret that separation between "engines" (or thrusters) and "payload pod".

Maglev: yep. Problem is that wheeled trains evolved while the Maglevs were developed. Wheeled are just too good at the moment compared to current Maglev designs, the main problem isn't the wheels any more but the air. Hyperloop might have the potential to change that.

 

[Saool]

It does grate a bit, but I'd argue it's less of a mistake and more of a visual shorthand for the purpose of storytelling. I see it all the time in SF movies and especially TV, but most written SF is more nuanced when it comes to describing alien architecture. As a predominantly visual medium, games tend towards the simplistic approach too.!

Not entirely true, it defines certain root patterns perhaps but that should not be unexpected given we are talking about a machine race here effectively - the Guardian AI and a few ruins are all that remain of the guardian civilisation as far as we know.

The currently available data we and lore on the Guardians see to indicate they were technologically advanced but that does not necessarily mean they were diverse in their approaches to designs.


Aesthetics is a poor justification for design variation if that is the ONLY reason. In the human case, we have a number of diverse cultures that evolved independently on the most part with different approaches to art, religion, philosophy, and language. At a basic level, there is very little variation in human designs and the aesthetic aspects are normally a characteristic of who is involved in designing/building it and what the core motivations are behind the activity.

Where insect hive (Thargoids) and machine hive (Guardian AI) races are concerned there is going to be a natural consensus and commonality in overall approaches due to the fundamental nature of the entities under consideration. Where other alien cultures are concerned their cultures may not have evolved in as diverse a fashion.

In Sci-Fi, generally speaking (there are some exceptions) any given alien race is often considered to have a single culture - sometimes with different factions but generally speaking if there is a major schism/difference between the races at a philosophical, religious, or linguistic level then they are considered a separate race even if their general root origins are identical. A prime example of this are the Vulcans and Romulans in Star Trek - the Romulans and Vulcans are essentially the same race but they diverged on philosophical/ideological grounds and then evolved differently from each other in different parts of the universe.

The primary justification for humans having more diverse designs is that we have a broad and diverse set of cultures that has evolved on a single planet and mingled over the years. In common sci-fi, humans rarely truly unify into a single culture and in the cases that do go down that route they are normally portrayed as being doomed to not persist as a unified culture.

But why? How do we not know that is not common, expected and natural? (Hypothetical of course).

Human technology is normally positioned as being (at least initially) weaker than alien technology in one area or another but often humans adapt alien tech to work with nominal human tech and in doing so can result in even more diversity (in an overall sense) than we already have but generally speaking how that alien tech is integrated tends to follow a particular pattern. The same rules of thumb apply to any new wholly human tech too, in some cases there is diversity from the start because of different human factions attempting the same work independently of each other.

In ED specifically, we have different manufacturers taking different approaches to ship designs and each of those manufacturers tends to be generally consistent in their approaches across a given range of tech that is designed for a specific purpose. In the case of the human-guardian hybrid tech, there appears to be a single unified group incorporating the alien tech with ours thus (at least for now) the designs resulting from that work are naturally going to be consistent in at least general approach - the focus is on integrating the tech rather than trying to introduce variety for the sake of it.

Regarding your whole post and Jack's in general: All fair points. And I get the idea of making things simple and readily identifiable. And the points about hive minds and AI are well made (assuming both of these things are actually happening in the case of Thargoids and Guardians respectively.

In short - lack of diversity in aesthetics in a given culture is expected, humans are often considered to be a mess of intermingled cultures (hence diversity in aesthetics) while individual alien factions are generally considered a single culture and different alien cultures are typically considered different aliens even if there is a common genetic baseline.

But this for me is the point. Why is is expected? Why are humans considered to be a mess if cultures? By who? Compared to who? For all we know we might be in a galaxy full of diverse cultures and actually be considered exceptionally plain and boring in comparison with any one of them. As we no of no other life anywhere, we have no yard stick. So these choices are just that, choices by authors, artists and creators. Whilst I know this is now getting well off the topic of the specific design of some Guardian inspired SLFs, I would like to see some Sci-fi where alien cultures are at least as diverse as humans.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Correlated Magnetics. Right now they're kind of a gimmick and make for some interesting free floating knobs and such, but a few hundred years in the future, plus whatever hyper advanced guardian tech we discovered, should allow for this large scale interaction to be possible.

Or simply super-conducting magnetic levitation, the guardian tech might make it really easy to achieve that.

Correlated magnetics sound very interesting - that's new to me. Thanks for mentioning it. That could indeed open up some possibilities - if the magnetic fields can be shaped in a way that they only affect the area directly between body and wings of the SLF. Otherwise I assume quite some problems when the SLF interacts with anything that might become magnetic in a very, very strong magnetic field.