David Braben comments on VR [gamedaily.biz article]

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If they really do an engine rewrite/new ED 2.0, VR might be one of the first things they'll drop. The modes second, p2p netcode third. Not looking too good atm, but we'll have to wait and see.

O7,
[noob]

In general I like the idea of an ED reboot starting from scratch so they can implement exploration properly

However I do fear what that would mean for the modes. I am just not interested in open
But if VR was dropped I am out. I just don't play any cockpit/racing seat games not in vr any more

It is why I am not buying NMS, Forza 7 or Forza horizon and is why I looked into a Star citizen refund

It would be even worse for elite because the above are games without ever having vr. But to have and then take it away would be so much worse

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Never used VR nor do I have the money for an adequate system, I'm fine with my head tracker. But what actually does raise an eyebrow here is what TorTorden said:

"Chief of which is eye strain.
The resolution doesn't cause strain.
Trying to force your eyes to see something that isn't there will."

This pretty much sounds like the effect I only know from cinema 3-D glasses (again, I never could check out true VR yet). Can anyone confirm this? Because for me this would be the final nail in the coffin of VR as I can't watch these movies (still remember Avatar that I'd rather watched in 2-D due to this effect). That's just not how my eyes are working - always focused on what they should be focused. [where is it][woah]

Vr for me is 100% comfortable (ignoring vr sickness in some games but that is another conversation) . OTOH whilst I like 3D TV and cinema that does strain my eyes a bit
VR is a strange one. It really needs to be experienced (and good vr as well, set up correctly to proper IPD etc. Trying to explain VR to someone using flat videos is like trying to explain the sound of the sea to a deaf person imo.
That is not to say everyone likes it .. but you can't understand it till you have tried it imo

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

But what's with this strange 'eye focus' effect TorTorden mentioned?
yes:

Sounds to me like someone who has not set ipd correctly . I get less eyestrain in vr than I do on a monitor

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Never used VR nor do I have the money for an adequate system, I'm fine with my head tracker. But what actually does raise an eyebrow here is what TorTorden said:

"Chief of which is eye strain.
The resolution doesn't cause strain.
Trying to force your eyes to see something that isn't there will."

This pretty much sounds like the effect I only know from cinema 3-D glasses (again, I never could check out true VR yet). Can anyone confirm this? Because for me this would be the final nail in the coffin of VR as I can't watch these movies (still remember Avatar that I'd rather watched in 2-D due to this effect). That's just not how my eyes are working - always focused on what they should be focused. [where is it][woah]

Are you really not able to think this through? In VR there is a right channel and a left channel and each channel is sent to the appropriate area of your brain via these two separate channels. Does that seem anything like 3D movies?

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Vr for me is 100% comfortable (ignoring vr sickness in some games but that is another conversation) . OTOH whilst I like 3D TV and cinema that does strain my eyes a bit
VR is a strange one. It really needs to be experienced (and good vr as well, set up correctly to proper IPD etc. Trying to explain VR to someone using flat videos is like trying to explain the sound of the sea to a deaf person imo.
That is not to say everyone likes it .. but you can't understand it till you have tried it imo

I understood what VR was before trying it. It’s really not that hard to understand. But obviously a YouTube video won’t convey the true immersiveness of a HMD.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Latest Steam hardware survey shows users with VR headsets at about 0.65%, so that is still looking pretty niche. I'm really kind of shocked it's not at about 10% by now. Of course, I haven't done any gaming for a few months. I just broke out the wheel and started playing ATS a couple days ago and I'm less than impressed with the VR performance. I guess it will take a while to get used to it again, but I almost want to dig out my old TrackIR so I can see that good graphics look like again. Nah. I think Elite always looked better anyway. I'm just waiting for Beyond Part 4, or whatever they are calling it.

ETS2/ATS are DX9 games. It's incredible how good a job the Devs did with an engine never made for VR. It will never be optimal

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I think VR could actually *benefit* from gradual and slow growth it has these days. Nothing kills devices as hype and not delivery of it. Both Oculus and HTC seems to be keen to deliver at current pace and software also struggles to get along.

I really doubt FD don't realize how much ED owes to VR. I doubt they will drop VR support in any case.

I hope you are right. I agree it won't come mainstream any time soon. I hope DB is not laying the foundation for reasons why VR is being dropped.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Can't really commment on this as I've never "walked" around in a VR game other than using a teleport type mechanic.

If you get the chance try from other suns and lone echo. Both work well without teleport

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This.

Also, if they did drop support, they'd have to refund everyone using oculus home. I can't see it happening.

Unless FD release elite D 2.0

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I understood what VR was before trying it. It’s really not that hard to understand. But obviously a YouTube video won’t convey the true immersiveness of a HMD.

Ok sure maybe I did not word correctly but For *most* people conceptually understanding something is not the same as actually experiencing it

Edit sorry for multiple posts rather than one mega one
I am on limited phone

 

[Darkfyre99]

If you get the chance try from other suns and lone echo. Both work well without teleport

I’ve also quite enjoyed the walking around experience in Minecraft’s VR mod and Fallout 4 VR.

 

[starman]

Space games are a niche..


Rollarcoaster games?

Sales are well bellow original forecasts.

But no one listens to me..

 

[phong]

Not a bucket-head and never will be.I've always felt that it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.I can see how it could be a valuable resource in certain limited circumstances,(medical applications),and in collaboration with other developing tech,but i'm not a brain surgeon,so any gaming application seems as frivolous as an atomic toothbrush.If that makes me a old fart,so be it, but at least i'm in good company.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Not a bucket-head and never will be.I've always felt that it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.I can see how it could be a valuable resource in certain limited circumstances,(medical applications),and in collaboration with other developing tech,but i'm not a brain surgeon,so any gaming application seems as frivolous as an atomic toothbrush.If that makes me a old fart,so be it, but at least i'm in good company.

Fair enough. Had you tried ED in high quality well configured vr out of curiosity?

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Not a bucket-head and never will be.I've always felt that it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.I can see how it could be a valuable resource in certain limited circumstances,(medical applications),and in collaboration with other developing tech,but i'm not a brain surgeon,so any gaming application seems as frivolous as an atomic toothbrush.If that makes me a old fart,so be it, but at least i'm in good company.

You need to try it. First time I loaded DCS in VR I just sat in the cockpit for an hour, hardly able to belive how good it was. Your gaming life must be an echoing void, a two dimensional void of course!.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Not a bucket-head and never will be.I've always felt that it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.I can see how it could be a valuable resource in certain limited circumstances,(medical applications),and in collaboration with other developing tech,but i'm not a brain surgeon,so any gaming application seems as frivolous as an atomic toothbrush.If that makes me a old fart,so be it, but at least i'm in good company.

It took me about year to slowly crawl through the stages of denial, acceptance, desire, making my wife accept it, buying it and finally taking me to the moon.
You'll get there, eventually.

 

[phong]

Absolutely not.I'm a pragmatic realist with limited resources , the vestigial remains of a sense of personal dignity,and a deep mistrust of the supposed benefits of technology.I don't mind making a fool of myself,but i draw the line at spending hundreds of credits to allow the marketing department to do it for me.I don't wish to detract from the obvious enjoyment of those who find their gameplay enhanced, if you have it and you enjoy it, good luck to you.But it is not for me. P.S.The above was in response to Mad Mike's post but a couple of replies landed in the interim, so to answer the Duke,No,i don't need to try it, anymore than i need extra rungs or super venom when playing snakes and ladders.And yes,the game is all about the void,although the absence of echo is unsurprising.And to _909: Despite having substantial mining interests in the Sol system from previous iterations of the game,I don't have a 'permit' (???) in this one,and am unlikely to accquire one,which is kind of ironic being native born.(Do they still have a no nukes policy,i wonder?).Which is really no big deal,as ELW landings are no longer a thing,and there're moons aplenty.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Absolutely not.I'm a pragmatic realist with limited resources ,, the vestigial remains of a sense of personal dignity,and a deep mistrust of the supposed benefits of technology.I don't mind making a fool of myself,but i draw the line at spending hundreds of credits to allow the marketing department to do it for me.I don't wish to detract from the obvious enjoyment of those who find their gameplay enhanced, if you have it and you enjoy it, good luck to you.But it is not for me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at re marketing departments, VR is very much being driven from the ground up by indie developers, enthusiasts and the community. Even the tech itself only came about now because of crowd funding and the passion of a few people. Large companies by and large have ignored VR, with the exception of a few nibbles here and there and some trail blazers like Bethesda and, to a lesser extent, Frontier. Though even then they've hardly thrown their full weight behind it and tried to convince people they should want it. Actual marketing around VR is noticeably absent for the most part. Even the few big hardware partners involved like HTC, Valve and Sony (for the PSVR) do almost no marketing of the devices.

Also to be clear, have you actually tried it? Because if not I can't see how you could justify such a hard position.

As for the cost, well it's not cheap obviously but if you can afford a reasonable gaming PC then you can afford to add VR to it. Also there are other potential benefits to VR, personally I can justify the cost for the health benefits alone. But that's a whole other discussion. But it really is one of those things you have to try to understand. I'd encourage anyone with doubts to find their nearest VR arcade and go give it a try.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I'm not sure what you're getting at re marketing departments, VR is very much being driven from the ground up by indie developers, enthusiasts and the community. Even the tech itself only came about now because of crowd funding and the passion of a few people. Large companies by and large have ignored VR, with the exception of a few nibbles here and there and some trail blazers like Bethesda and, to a lesser extent, Frontier. Though even then they've hardly thrown their full weight behind it and tried to convince people they should want it. Actual marketing around VR is noticeably absent for the most part. Even the few big hardware partners involved like HTC, Valve and Sony (for the PSVR) do almost no marketing of the devices.

Also to be clear, have you actually tried it? Because if not I can't see how you could justify such a hard position.

He's just being ..... If you can't afford it then, fair enough, but the rest of his argument is bilge.

 

[starman]

Not a bucket-head and never will be.I've always felt that it's very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.I can see how it could be a valuable resource in certain limited circumstances,(medical applications),and in collaboration with other developing tech,but i'm not a brain surgeon,so any gaming application seems as frivolous as an atomic toothbrush.If that makes me a old fart,so be it, but at least i'm in good company.

what are you doing here?