News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[kofeyh]

That's my understanding so far- and that the "probe" system would provide further information to actually determine whether travel to that planetary body would be warranted for further investigation.

I hope that is the case. I will see what Frontier offers. I hope for reasons to explore, as that is the point, is it not? To see, to discover, to experience. To enjoy.

I fear our stalwart developer has simply redacted exploration down to a HUD, with probes, and much time will be spent in the mini game because it will become rapidly apparent when system, after system, after system has NOTHING in it because the developer spent all the time on the minigame.

Not the worlds themselves. Or anything to discover. This is taking the alien stuff people use audacity to hunt through and reading the tea leaves via throwing an alien probe out the airlock and running with it

Exploration sort of means to explore. Its now, potentially, a time consuming minigame to see that there is nothing to see.

Beta, we will see in Beta. When the minigame becomes either a surprise win and adds a layer of engagement, or is simply a reminder the universe is empty, still, and there is nothing for the (convoluted) minigame to offer.

Folks are so keen for anything in exploration, Sandy could say here is an new exploration brick. You hit things with the brick and they will make different noises and by god that would be amazing!

This is the game now. Folks are desperate at times and even a brick offers endless hope.

 

[SiriusStrider]

The initial 'honk' will just reveal the entry star. As you use the to explore, more stellar bodies will be revealed as you find them, which will then populate the system map.

This is an awful decision for non explorers, which do not really want to find details about planets, but want a fast and efficient way to find their mission locations. Honking is not the only way to find them, but it is currently very efficient. I suspect this means that non explorers will have to buy cartographic data much more often, and so hope this will be made easier, and you’ll be able to buy more detailed data.

Regarding synthesizing new probes, this sounds like it will force every explorer into gathering materials. Should you explore in a Hauler, you will not have an SRV. On my first few trips, I had neither SRV nor mining lasers with me. Given that firing probes is already a time sink, do we really need another one for synthesis? Or will the probes automatically return, unless you did something stupid?

 

[ShimEnki]

I wonder if there could be an engineered version of the scanner offered that a bounty hunter / search and rescue role players could use.

S/he uses the engineered scanner on the resulting illegal cargo post ship destruction to detect where the cargo came from which immediately removes the illegal tag.

Some reward is gained for not only taking the time to perform the scan(s) but also recognizing the value in their return in such a way that perhaps doesn't effect the bgs

 

[Netah]

It's got nothing to do with credits.
It's about the value of the gameplay and how changing it affects our enjoyment of the game.

Can you imagine the salt if combat pilots had to play a minigame to decode a ship's IFF transponder to determine if it was wanted?

That's how it feels to some of us.

You mean something maybe like:

If this new exploration technique were applied to combat, no longer would targeting an enemy ship give initial wanted data. Instead, the kill warrant scanner would bring up a new HUD, you would search for an enemy ship within the system with a "signature" indicating something might be wanted, then try to find the blip on your HUD scanner and move toward it, then probe it for more wanted information (i.e., is it wanted in this system or another system; is it noob, competent, dangerous, elite, etc.; and for how much the bounty range is); then after finding, engaging, and killing said wanted ship, you would only be able to turn the bounty voucher in for the system it was wanted in, not for any other system and also not at an Interstellar Factor. Doesn't matter if doing a CG or in a CZ or just cruising around, one would have to do this for each ship.

(ok, I will go away now, promise)

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Unless something has changed over night you do have to scan a ship (IFF transponder or not) to see if its wanted.

The important part you, hopefully accidentally, missed was "play a minigame to decode".

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

You mean something maybe like:

If this new exploration technique were applied to combat, no longer would targeting an enemy ship give initial wanted data. Instead, the kill warrant scanner would bring up a new HUD, you would search for an enemy ship within the system with a "signature" indicating something might be wanted, then try to find the blip on your HUD scanner and move toward it, then probe it for more wanted information (i.e., is it wanted in this system or another system; is it noob, competent, dangerous, elite, etc.; and for how much the bounty range is); then after finding, engaging, and killing said wanted ship, you would only be able to turn the bounty voucher in for the system it was wanted in, not for any other system and also not at an Interstellar Factor. Doesn't matter if doing a CG or in a CZ or just cruising around, one would have to do this for each ship.

(ok, I will go away now, promise)

But it would me more immersive, right?

 

[Gravity Drive]

You can call me weird if you like, but I actually ENJOY flying around in space in my flying a spaceship game..

You and me both. It's amazing how many people seem to play Elite and hate actually flying their ship.

For what it's worth, I've always loved being in supercruise, tooling around a system with an actual sense of scale. I've never experienced anything like this in any other game. I shudder at the thought of Frontier making supercruise some form of near instant travel as some seem to want, but fortunately Frontier do not seem interested in going down that path.

It's like on foot travel times in Everquest circa 1999, sometimes you need a bit of a slog to give shape or meaning to the rest of the game. Supercruise provides a necessary sense of scale and is probably the single most important element that actually makes you feel like you're flying around in space.

You can think it's boring, but I can then think you're playing the wrong game.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I hope that is the case. I will see what Frontier offers. I hope for reasons to explore, as that is the point, is it not? To see, to discover, to experience. To enjoy.

I fear our stalwart developer has simply redacted exploration down to a HUD, with probes, and much time will be spent in the mini game because it will become rapidly apparent when system, after system, after system has NOTHING in it because the developer spent all the time on the minigame.

Not the worlds themselves. Or anything to disovver. This is taking the alien stuff people use audacity to hunt through and reading the tea leaves vis throwing an alien probe out the airlock and running with it

Exploration sort of means to explore. Its now, potentially, a time consuming minigame to see that there is nothing to see.

Beta, we will see in Beta. When the minigame becomes either a surprise wind or a reminder the universe is empty, still, and there is nothing for the minigame to offer.

Remember when I said I was worried that FDev would break exploration?

Told ya

 

[Rardain]

Is there going to be a repository of exploration data available at some point, maybe as part of the Codex? Something along the lines of being able to enter a pilots name and see what systems they first mapped, both historically and the new system?

The last time I spent any length of time exploring I kept a physical journal of all the systems I visited. As it took me a year to complete I am sure that other explorers on shorter trips will have bagged some of the systems I first discovered for their own...it would be nice to see which systems I have gained first discovery on and maybe see them in graphical representation as pins on the star map.

 

[Old Duck]

Remember when I said I was worried that FDev would break exploration?

Told ya

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the pudding is still setting in the fridge. It's a bit premature for "told ya" just yet. I like the proposed changes if they work as I imagine, and imagine is all we can do right now. Words and even pictures don't tell the whole story, only hands-on gameplay will a spoon in the pudding be.

Though based on my own personal experience, Frontier will break exploration with a plethora of new bugs

(The white knight antidote is starting to kick in, LOL)

 

[Dutchman141]

That's my understanding so far- and that the "probe" system would provide further information to actually determine whether travel to that planetary body would be warranted for further investigation.

So in fact the new system reduces the time you need to pick a body you want to land on or inspect with probes since you don't have to fly to each body to get a dss.
Sounds good to me.

The honk and jump system is one of the most unimaginative exploration systems I can think of, so is having to fly to each body to get some real info.
The new system sounds much more credible, you enter a system, scan for it's bodies, then you pick one that looks interesting to you and interrogate it with probes to see if something is on it's surface.

So, it may take longer to get to your initial target sector, is that a bad thing? It's not like the store closes at six and you need to get there in time.
I don't care about credits when I'm exploring, that's where waterworlds are good for no? I want to be an explorer when I'm at it not a businessman with a money scanner that says honk.

 

[MrFailfactory]

I took some time to think before responding, because I don't like to knee-jerk. I'm glad I did.

My first thoughts were that this all sounds good, except for the massively increased time to determine whether or not to stay in a given system.

After some more thought though, I no longer feel this way. It will be a huge blow to those whose Exploration consists of Drive-by-for-Shinies, but for the actual target audience, this sounds really good.

I was thinking about the other two pillars - Combat is pretty easy; the more skilled you are at flying, and perhaps more importantly, how skilled you are at knowing how the AI flies, is rewarded directly in higher/longer survivability, and faster (PvE) kill times. Regarding Trade, if you have taken the time to learn and understand how the BGS works, then you can make lots of credits (without needing or using exploits or a 3rd-party), and you can also target where to go to get the specific Mission Rewards that you are seeking. Perhaps there is more that I have yet to discover there? I look forward to finding out.

Looking at the other two pillars, this approach is in line with the other two; those who have taken the time to learn how the Stellar Forge works will be in a position to have that skill, time, and knowledge rewarded directly with a much greater chance of finding those worlds that have a higher interest or scan value. When I started thinking about it this way, I started to like it a lot more. I would also say that the removal of the instant reveal warrants a fairly significant hike in credit rewards for those select bodies. Any thoughts on this, Frontier?

I'm also looking forward to any information regarding what things we will be able to find that we currently can't (or haven't yet). This was mentioned in a video well over a year ago, so I am hoping that this part has been worked out, and provides enough variety and *cool factor* to last for some time. Apologies, I don't have a link to that video.

I will miss the convenience of Drive-by-for-Shinies, but I think I'll be happier when it's in the rear-view mirror. Where it belongs.

Looks good so far Frontier - quite good indeed.

Riôt

 

[kofeyh]

Remember when I said I was worried that FDev would break exploration?

Told ya

My dude, I think it was the other way around. Beta, we will know. My only concern, is that the developer has perhaps done what they tend to do. Make a very interesting and time consuming mini game, and forget there is nothing to find, with this new scanner.

I had hoped for things to see and experience, to use the tools we have, in am more engaging fashion. We have a mini game in a galaxy of billions that is mostly empty.

It is thus, again. Massive focus on a thing to do, to keep idle hands busy little thought into things to experience.

As folks have started to observe, is there anything new to find, with this new toy? I do hope so. But I'd be lying if I thought frontier had considered this and plastered endless new things to experience once it had been sufficiently probed.

I do so love a good probing, tho, don't you?

 

[Da Real Lazy]

You mean something maybe like:

If this new exploration technique were applied to combat, no longer would targeting an enemy ship give initial wanted data. Instead, the kill warrant scanner would bring up a new HUD, you would search for an enemy ship within the system with a "signature" indicating something might be wanted, then try to find the blip on your HUD scanner and move toward it, then probe it for more wanted information (i.e., is it wanted in this system or another system; is it noob, competent, dangerous, elite, etc.; and for how much the bounty range is); then after finding, engaging, and killing said wanted ship, you would only be able to turn the bounty voucher in for the system it was wanted in, not for any other system and also not at an Interstellar Factor. Doesn't matter if doing a CG or in a CZ or just cruising around, one would have to do this for each ship.

(ok, I will go away now, promise)

Yah, yah i Kind of feel like that with this. I like some aspects of it, but...... Please just make it worth my time.

 

[Dutchman141]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the pudding is still setting in the fridge. It's a bit premature for "told ya" just yet. I still like the proposed changes if they work like I imagine, and imagine is all we can do right now. Words and even pictures don't tell the whole story, only hands-on gameplay will a spoon in the pudding be.

Though based on my own personal experience, Frontier will break exploration with a plethora of new bugs

(The white knight antidote is starting to kick in, LOL)

Can I have some of that?
I'm getting way to positive about this new exploration stuff, I must be missing a flaw or screw up somewhere.

 

[Cageman]

This is an awful decision for non explorers, which do not really want to find details about planets, but want a fast and efficient way to find their mission locations.

Jumping (phun intended) to conclusions, are you?

 

[Sylveria]

So in fact the new system reduces the time you need to pick a body you want to land on or inspect with probes since you don't have to fly to each body to get a dss.
Sounds good to me.

The honk and jump system is one of the most unimaginative exploration systems I can think of, so is having to fly to each body to get some real info.
The new system sounds much more credible, you enter a system, scan for it's bodies, then you pick one that looks interesting to you and interrogate it with probes to see if something is on it's surface.

So, it may take longer to get to your initial target sector, is that a bad thing? It's not like the store closes at six and you need to get there in time.
I don't care about credits when I'm exploring, that's where waterworlds are good for no? I want to be an explorer when I'm at it not a businessman with a money scanner that says honk.

I'm personally not in it for the credits, either- but making rewards commensurate with actual effort involved doesn't hurt either. In fact Frontier should give very basic credit rewards for scanning stars but increase it with deeper scanning/probing of the entire system. Scale it further and further out from let's say "Earth" in terms of distance. Some do it for fun, some do it for money- but BOTH are rewarded for doing it.

 

[Rardain]

You and me both. It's amazing how many people seem to play Elite and hate actually flying their ship.

For what it's worth, I've always loved being in supercruise, tooling around a system with an actual sense of scale. I've never experienced anything like this in any other game. I shudder at the thought of Frontier making supercruise some form of near instant travel as some seem to want, but fortunately Frontier do not seem interested in going down that path.

It's like on foot travel times in Everquest circa 1999, sometimes you need a bit of a slog to give shape or meaning to the rest of the game. Supercruise provides a necessary sense of scale and is probably the single most important element that actually makes you feel like you're flying around in space.

You can think it's boring, but I can then think you're playing the wrong game.

I always think of long, in-system, travel times in terms of films like Star Wars or Star Trek where passengers or crew are involved in other activities whilst on their journey - strictly speaking those journeys are actually taking place through hyperspace or warp but the analogy still holds true. On particularly long travel times to secondary or tertiary stars in a system I would often read a book whilst keeping an eye on the screen.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

No. It's the ADS which is going to behave more like the SRV scanner. Meaning, for some systems with lots of bodies in it, it's going to take a lot longer to decide if it's worth your time to explore it in more depth.

My prediction is eventually this fact will sink in to most player who are not masochists.

Oh, dear.

Two more hull and module reinforcement packs for my poor traders and mission runners, please.

 

[halo jones 101]

Expanding play elements, in exploration sounds good, to me... Looking forward to more details...