What? Wait! ... nobody said I had to be nude?!?! That seems a bit weird if you ask me FD!
News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal
What? Wait! ... nobody said I had to be nude?!?! That seems a bit weird if you ask me FD!
How is it demonstrably worse? You not liking it doesn't make it so. The majority of the community wanted a change to the Jump-Honk mechanic.
Right now, to get probe levels of info on 100 bodies, you need to Honk, fly to each individual body until you get within 1000 Light Seconds (for gas giants) or under 100 Light Seconds for terrestrial bodies, then wait for the auto-scan to kick in. In all that time you-the commander-are doing literally *nothing* to aid the process in any way. Tell me how that is less tedious than the method outlined in the OP.
Question & Official Answers round-up
I gathered all the official answers and their questions for convenience.
Q: I do have a question though: when we fully map a planet with probes does it reveal the exact locations of all POI's on the surface? Or does it reveal search zones to find the POI's?
A: It will give you the exact location of persistent POIs. The more transient, smaller POIs such as a collection of skimmers will not be located by the surface scan.
Q: Are we going to see combined scanner racks?
A: Unfortunately this is not planned at the current time.
Q: Will the full map add a POI or marker for things like alien sites once they are found? One that is targetable
[/LIST]
A: Alien sites will be targetable once a surface scan has been completed.
Q: Will payouts be increased to compensate for this extra time requirement?
A: We believe that players should receive greater credit rewards for the same amount of time and effort.
Q: Will you overhaul the engineer blueprints for the scanners? Such as more efficient probes, better accuracy, stuff like that?
A: We will be maintaining an Engineering option on the DSS, the new upgrade will provide it with a larger probe capacity.
Q: Will scanning the nav beacon reveal the system?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you still need to travel to a system in order to discover its planets ? Or can you discover planets from a nearby system ?
A: You can only discover stellar bodies in the system you are currently in.
Q: Will the nav beacon still work?
A: Players will automatically gain the location of starports and outposts when they enter the system.
Q: Will you have to crash your probes into a planet to get a surface scan, or will getting a probe into orbit be enough?
A: The probes work by impacting on the surface of the planet, you are not attempting to get them into an orbit.
Q: So we can finally have 4 players mixed between both wings and multicrew?
A: I've updated the OP for better clarity on what was meant with that line: 'This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.'
Q: Will we still have the means to quickly tell if a system might be worth looking at more, or is that getting nerfed?
A: The intention is that the energy distribution should provide explorers with information they can interpret to help identify if specific body types exist in a system.
Q: Are USSs system or commander specific?
A: USSs are still Commander specific, however you can still use wing beacons to allow friends to join you.
Q: Lots of interesting improvements here, but I've got to say that unless the DSS probes have a REALLY long range then the following statement is nonsense: We currently have to fly to within range of a planet to use the DSS. We will STILL have to fly to within range of a planet to use the DSS.
A: The data you currently earn from the existing Discovery Surface Scanner (DSS) is provided when using the new Discovery Scanner mechanics. The new DSS will provide the player with surface scan data, which currently does not exist in the game. This allows the player to get the first mapped tag on their discoveries.
Q: If the USS are no longer random, does that mean they are finite?
A: The USS will be finite, but we plan to have more that one or two at any one time. The USS do decay, they only last for a certain amount of time, and the remaining time is displayed to the player. More USS will spawn and appear over time.
Q: Will your muticrew member be able to enter SRV?
A: SRVs do not support multicrew at this time.
Q: Will this be stored in the cargo hold or in the DSS's internal storage?
A: The DSS has internal storage for the probes, like ammunition.
Q: How will the system map work/look after the initial honk and later on?
A: The initial 'honk' will just reveal the entry star. As you use the to explore, more stellar bodies will be revealed as you find them, which will then populate the system map.
Q: So we can finally have 4 players mixed between both wings and multicrew?
A: I've updated the OP for better clarity on what was meant with that line: 'This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.'
Q: For micro-probes, what materials will be needed to synthesise them, and how many can we carry at once?
A: We don't have our synthesis recipe nailed down at the moment. We are currently working with a ship's holding around a couple of hundred probes. It's important to note that scanning a planet varies based on size of the body and aiming skills of the pilot.
Q: How does this affect CZ / PP combat areas- are they unaffected and visible <1000L/s as normal, or do we look for them?
A: You can now use the discovery scanner to find them no matter where they are in the system. It's important to note that you still discover USS, CZ etc if you fly close to them in supercruise.
Q: Will there be new contents of signal sources?
A: Yes.
Q: Next, will the logistics of conducting multicrew exploration be made simpler?
A: I'm unsure on the exacts on this one, I have made a note to look into it.
Q: Say, I jump into an unknown - to me - system within the bubble, say for a mission, and I have to go to a given planet. At that time I am not interested in looking around for things - I just want to find that planet and go there fast. Now, I just honk the scanner, detect the planet and set course. What happens with this new mechanism?
A: If you want the location data without using the discovery scanner you can still scan the Nav Beacon to obtain this information.
Q: USS spawn, is it a one off, or will new ones generate if you stay in a system for a long time
A: USS will continue to spawn at set intervals, each one has a timer as well which denotes when it will expire.
Q: Do the different levels of discovery scanner still have the same range limitations?
A: We are considering upgrading all discovery scanners into a single discovery scanner and removing the lesser versions from the game. Those players who have already purchased scanners above the basic level would receive compensation.
Q: But if USS decay, it means others will spawn instead. Right?
A: USS will continue to expire and spawn at set intervals.
Q: Also, will we be getting any new kinds of info on stellar bodies?
A: We aren't presenting any new information on the stellar bodies, but the new tools provide earlier and easier access to data we already presented in the system map.
Q: You mentioned "gravitational anomalies". Care to share an example?
A: These gravitational anomalies represent the gravity produced by stellar bodies and are used to help guide players towards their possible locations.
Q: Also, about the probes and first mapping: will we be able to map bodies which we can't (yet) land on?
A: Yes.
Q: Apart from that, how close do you need to be to a planet for the DSS to work, and can those probes be started from normal space?
A: The DSS is a supercruise only module, we are balancing the range at which it can be used to make it a satisfying experience.
I gathered all the official answers and their questions for convenience.
Q: I do have a question though: when we fully map a planet with probes does it reveal the exact locations of all POI's on the surface? Or does it reveal search zones to find the POI's?
A: It will give you the exact location of persistent POIs. The more transient, smaller POIs such as a collection of skimmers will not be located by the surface scan.
Q: Are we going to see combined scanner racks?
A: Unfortunately this is not planned at the current time.
Q: Will the full map add a POI or marker for things like alien sites once they are found? One that is targetable
[/LIST]
A: Alien sites will be targetable once a surface scan has been completed.
Q: Will payouts be increased to compensate for this extra time requirement?
A: We believe that players should receive greater credit rewards for the same amount of time and effort.
Q: Will you overhaul the engineer blueprints for the scanners? Such as more efficient probes, better accuracy, stuff like that?
A: We will be maintaining an Engineering option on the DSS, the new upgrade will provide it with a larger probe capacity.
Q: Will scanning the nav beacon reveal the system?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you still need to travel to a system in order to discover its planets ? Or can you discover planets from a nearby system ?
A: You can only discover stellar bodies in the system you are currently in.
Q: Will the nav beacon still work?
A: Players will automatically gain the location of starports and outposts when they enter the system.
Q: Will you have to crash your probes into a planet to get a surface scan, or will getting a probe into orbit be enough?
A: The probes work by impacting on the surface of the planet, you are not attempting to get them into an orbit.
Q: So we can finally have 4 players mixed between both wings and multicrew?
A: I've updated the OP for better clarity on what was meant with that line: 'This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.'
Q: Will we still have the means to quickly tell if a system might be worth looking at more, or is that getting nerfed?
A: The intention is that the energy distribution should provide explorers with information they can interpret to help identify if specific body types exist in a system.
Q: Are USSs system or commander specific?
A: USSs are still Commander specific, however you can still use wing beacons to allow friends to join you.
Q: Lots of interesting improvements here, but I've got to say that unless the DSS probes have a REALLY long range then the following statement is nonsense: We currently have to fly to within range of a planet to use the DSS. We will STILL have to fly to within range of a planet to use the DSS.
A: The data you currently earn from the existing Discovery Surface Scanner (DSS) is provided when using the new Discovery Scanner mechanics. The new DSS will provide the player with surface scan data, which currently does not exist in the game. This allows the player to get the first mapped tag on their discoveries.
Q: If the USS are no longer random, does that mean they are finite?
A: The USS will be finite, but we plan to have more that one or two at any one time. The USS do decay, they only last for a certain amount of time, and the remaining time is displayed to the player. More USS will spawn and appear over time.
Q: Will your muticrew member be able to enter SRV?
A: SRVs do not support multicrew at this time.
Q: Will this be stored in the cargo hold or in the DSS's internal storage?
A: The DSS has internal storage for the probes, like ammunition.
Q: How will the system map work/look after the initial honk and later on?
A: The initial 'honk' will just reveal the entry star. As you use the to explore, more stellar bodies will be revealed as you find them, which will then populate the system map.
Q: So we can finally have 4 players mixed between both wings and multicrew?
A: I've updated the OP for better clarity on what was meant with that line: 'This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.'
Q: For micro-probes, what materials will be needed to synthesise them, and how many can we carry at once?
A: We don't have our synthesis recipe nailed down at the moment. We are currently working with a ship's holding around a couple of hundred probes. It's important to note that scanning a planet varies based on size of the body and aiming skills of the pilot.
Q: How does this affect CZ / PP combat areas- are they unaffected and visible <1000L/s as normal, or do we look for them?
A: You can now use the discovery scanner to find them no matter where they are in the system. It's important to note that you still discover USS, CZ etc if you fly close to them in supercruise.
Q: Will there be new contents of signal sources?
A: Yes.
Q: Next, will the logistics of conducting multicrew exploration be made simpler?
A: I'm unsure on the exacts on this one, I have made a note to look into it.
Q: Say, I jump into an unknown - to me - system within the bubble, say for a mission, and I have to go to a given planet. At that time I am not interested in looking around for things - I just want to find that planet and go there fast. Now, I just honk the scanner, detect the planet and set course. What happens with this new mechanism?
A: If you want the location data without using the discovery scanner you can still scan the Nav Beacon to obtain this information.
Q: USS spawn, is it a one off, or will new ones generate if you stay in a system for a long time
A: USS will continue to spawn at set intervals, each one has a timer as well which denotes when it will expire.
Q: Do the different levels of discovery scanner still have the same range limitations?
A: We are considering upgrading all discovery scanners into a single discovery scanner and removing the lesser versions from the game. Those players who have already purchased scanners above the basic level would receive compensation.
Q: But if USS decay, it means others will spawn instead. Right?
A: USS will continue to expire and spawn at set intervals.
Q: Also, will we be getting any new kinds of info on stellar bodies?
A: We aren't presenting any new information on the stellar bodies, but the new tools provide earlier and easier access to data we already presented in the system map.
Q: You mentioned "gravitational anomalies". Care to share an example?
A: These gravitational anomalies represent the gravity produced by stellar bodies and are used to help guide players towards their possible locations.
Q: Also, about the probes and first mapping: will we be able to map bodies which we can't (yet) land on?
A: Yes.
Q: Apart from that, how close do you need to be to a planet for the DSS to work, and can those probes be started from normal space?
A: The DSS is a supercruise only module, we are balancing the range at which it can be used to make it a satisfying experience.
Damn.... This hits all the points that I've been wanting in exploration.
@ Will
Couple questions
1) Planetary Bookmarks, is this coming? (I'd like to be able to create a bookmark on a planet, plug in the lat/long coords and set it.)
2) Does this mean we finally got the Orrery View for the system map?
3) Since probes are stored in the DSS, has this idea been considered for limpets and limpet controllers?
4) Any idea on consolidating limpet controllers? (I was picturing something like one Limpet Controller, and the type of controller being a card insertable in a sub slot, kind of like how Planetary hangers and SRVs work.)
Keep in mind these are just odd ball questions for consideration. The preview you showed us looks, fantastic, if it works the way it's advertized I will be very happy.
@ Will
Couple questions
1) Planetary Bookmarks, is this coming? (I'd like to be able to create a bookmark on a planet, plug in the lat/long coords and set it.)
2) Does this mean we finally got the Orrery View for the system map?
3) Since probes are stored in the DSS, has this idea been considered for limpets and limpet controllers?
4) Any idea on consolidating limpet controllers? (I was picturing something like one Limpet Controller, and the type of controller being a card insertable in a sub slot, kind of like how Planetary hangers and SRVs work.)
Keep in mind these are just odd ball questions for consideration. The preview you showed us looks, fantastic, if it works the way it's advertized I will be very happy.
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Unless there's a skill element to it.
Let's take Planetside for example: Shooting a tank cannon is boring by itself. BUT: If you add projectile arc, a suspension system adding sway, and a stabilization system trying but not entirely compensating for terrain elevation changes, coupled with a varied landscape and a certain projectile speed that makes it harder to hit far away targets, and suddenly you are met with a game that rewards players with successes that feel "well earned". In other words, you make it hard, but you give players a way to get really good at what they do, thus giving skilled players an edge in time and reward.
Skill gameplay is one of the major motivation factors. It is not the only one, and Elite definitely needs player agency, but by Shai Hulud I welcome the removal of randomly popping up USS and the replacement with a mechanic that I can actually play and influence.
nobody wants all that info from 100 rocky planets in a system.
We did, and I'm liking the proposals.
However, it depends on why you're exploring, it's not always about info or credits. Here's a different point of view:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/447118-The-majority-of-the-exploration-changes-sound-great-but-one-part-(the-ads-scanner)-makes-me-worried
Nice one cmdr o7
Forcing the player to scan every body to fill in the system map is demonstrably worse.
It's slower, yes. But maybe, just maybe, the "honk and know everything instantly" mechanic was too easy to begin with.
Now we change the exploring scanners why not revamp it that we only need one scanner and free a slot?
The changes and the probes seems me great but i wait with being happy till I hear how much I must grind for new probes while I'm 25kly from the bubble,
Also I hope when we find a poi on land-able planets we get explorers srv's and not shooting rocks for materials but drilling
The changes and the probes seems me great but i wait with being happy till I hear how much I must grind for new probes while I'm 25kly from the bubble,
Also I hope when we find a poi on land-able planets we get explorers srv's and not shooting rocks for materials but drilling
That sounds good.
How is anybody being forced to "fill in the system map"? The info you get from honking-in terms of detail-is actually little different in this system than in the current system. I still have to individually scan every single body to determine what the planets are. Instead of the "Unknown" placeholder we currently have, though, it is instead in the form of the Emission/Gravity data. Under the new system, though, you don't need to get within a minimum distance in order to get the next level of data on the planet....so I suspect the amount of time you lose in the new system is more than made up with not having to fly to each planet to do the next level of scanning.
Quite. It'll mean that to be an explorer, we actually have to ... you know... explore, rather than just take a glance out of the metaphorical window as we pass in our rush to get to the furthest point along a road where thousands of others have previously trod.
People say that going to Sag A* or Beagle Point is exploring, but I say that it is most certainly not! Unless you were the first, or at least in the first few, then you're just a tourist on a holiday or vacation. The same for all those so called exploration missions to take a famous explorer that nobody ever heard of to a remote place you've been to a thousand times before (possibly with other famous explorers you never heard of).
This new update really is a boon for explorers, but it'll hurt the tourists who just want to rush past and plunder the gift shop as they head onward to their next neutron jump.
No more Random USS searches... This, just this solves soooo much frustration from this game! It improves material gathering, bounty-hunting, a lot of missions... THANK YOU!
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
No, you are missing my point really. Right now, you can do a "honk" with an ADS and SEE on the system map if anything is interesting you can then compare the hologram of the planets with the known type on screen, there might be one or two bodies which are potential ELW or bodies you are interested in so you don't need to visit 100 planets, unless you wanted to scan the entire system. I don't generally do that when exploring in the middle of nowhere as I don't want to map 100 planet systems fully (but, maybe the new system will actually make that interesting).
The new system we may not know until we have found every single planet (potentially, as we don't have the full details on the "emission system"). So there may be no way to do a quick check for say potential ELWs. I guess we may learn the "emissions" code of each type of world and its easier to tell, but at the moment I can look at the system map after an ADS and then pick the planet and know with a good degree of certainty if its a Ammonia/WW/ELW due to the graphic in the left hand side of the screen. I then only need to SC to those planets.
I am not actually saying the new system is bad, I am just asking people not to be so dismissive. I guess we will see in beta how this will all work.
I agree for people who want to map everything that the new system is better, for people who don't a question mark remains.
Edit: this question posted earlier does actually address it, so it might be ok.
Q: Will we still have the means to quickly tell if a system might be worth looking at more, or is that getting nerfed?
A: The intention is that the energy distribution should provide explorers with information they can interpret to help identify if specific body types exist in a system.
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I admit, i'm not playing atm, burnt out somehow. I've been critical, even cynical at times regarding the state of ED.
If you, FDEV, manage to pull off what is described in the OP than it would be a massively welcomed gamechanger.
I don't get hyped anymore, but i gladly follow the forums and can't wait to see what actually gets delivered.
Q4 update might actually bring me back to the game.
And Adam, i highly appreciate taking your time answering all the questions in here.
If you, FDEV, manage to pull off what is described in the OP than it would be a massively welcomed gamechanger.
I don't get hyped anymore, but i gladly follow the forums and can't wait to see what actually gets delivered.
Q4 update might actually bring me back to the game.
And Adam, i highly appreciate taking your time answering all the questions in here.