News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

Proposal: The player should be given the option to place a nav beacon in the system when he is the first one who has discovered the system … and all discovered data from this system can be up-loaded to this nav beacon.

This would be a great idea for expeditions and the like, along with being able to share surface locations to meet up at and similar.

I plan on taking a Vulture on DW2 and don't want to have to spend all of my time just jump-honking in order to keep up without having the time to check out some cool looking systems along the way.
 
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So Adam answered Genar-Hofoen's question about the 'instant readability' of the new scan's energy spectrum compared to an ADS honk revealing the entire system's planets, relative position and distance from the system entry point, with "You will be able to use the energy spectrum to decide if there's something worthwhile".

Does the energy spectrum indicate range? A gas giant at 1000Ls is a lot more interesting than a gas giant at 350000Ls...
 
I totally concur with this post - this feature must work smoothly in VR - Please test it in depth.

Looks like there's going to be a public beta, so I'm sure we'll test the bejeezus out of it in VR, and then hope they listen to the feedback and sort any issues out in good time for full release.

Obviously the fear is that what they are proposing may not translate well in VR and it'll get left in limbo because, well VR is so niche... apparently.

(I've not played any multi-crew, so i'm not sure how the interfacing works in that, but I've not heard good reports... so I have several appendages and other parts of my anatomy crossed in hope that Q4 won't be a VR disaster!)
 
This all sounds pretty good. I think my only concern is over the removal of the ability to see what kinds of planets are in a system with the press of a button. It's a specific use case, but on long expeditions, where one has to travel upwards of 7,000ly in a single week, a lot of people (those with demanding jobs or those in school) may not have the time to scan every system they come across while making their way to the next waypoint. If we had fleet carriers, this issue would be somewhat resolved, as those with little time could do their exploration, then dock with their expedition's carrier to jump to the next waypoint, but....
 
I suppose you have to map a planet or moon 100% to get the "mapped by" tag. Can see lots of commanders flying around the far side to finish off the 1% they missed because of poor probing. :p
 
He said: he didn't know, he was sure they would have been looking at it, but he couldn't say for certain. He hadn't tried it in VR yet.

I do not believe that means "VR not even tested yet".
 
There is, however, one crucial change that doesn't hinge on mechanical balance: system layouts, body configurations.
Based on what has been said so far, we should be able to tell what types of bodies there are in a system, but not be able to tell the system layout, the configuration of the bodies, without scanning them. Right now, the ADS honk tells us the entire system layout and the specific bodies' types (via visual and audio cues). The new system would tell us the body types present in the system, not the layout - without body scanning, that is. Losing the ability to tell the system layout at a glance means losing quite a lot of information that we used to have. To solve that, I'd suggest that the initial honk would reveal at least gray globes, but I'd really rather it just worked as it does now, and the detailed information and mapping would both come from the new mechanics. But even the empty globes would be better, as you could see the layout of the system, and if something looks interesting, then you can try scanning those.

As I've said a couple of times already, I like this new system and I'm okay with the trade-off of more time spent revealing the system in exchange for potentially much less time cruising around scanning it.

That said, I'm sympathetic to the folks speaking up to say that they don't want to lose the functionality of the current ADS. After all, loss aversion is a real thing - nobody likes to lose something they already have! So I guess the question is, could Frontier make everyone happy here by leaving the ADS as it is, and putting all the new functions (basically the infinite-range, minigame-based surface scan plus probe launcher) into the DSS. Am I correctly hearing that nobody would be sad to lose the current "fly close and point at planet" surface scanning mechanic?

The result would be somewhat less coherent, because it would feel odd to have all the bodies revealed in the system map and targetable in the sky, but have to search them out again in the "electromagnetic emissions" sensor. Odd, but probably not game-breaking. Just because I can see the radio tower doesn't mean I might not have to fiddle with my radio a bit to pick up its signal clearly. Presumably if you didn't want to fiddle with the signals at all, you could have something close to the current gameplay by honking with the ADS, and then flying to an interesting planet to fire mapping probes. If you haven't already done the surface scan, that should surely result in both scanning and mapping the body. If Frontier decided to do that, I would probably recommend that the game not provide clues about the planet type (via the holograms or planet "songs") until after the surface scan, to reinforce that the ADS is just about quickly locating bodies, not characterizing them.

On the upside, doing things that way would actually make more ships viable for planetary exploration, because the ADS would become a purely optional luxury. A sidewinder could equip a scoop shield, SRV, and DSS in its four slots, and be able to do all the exploration tasks. It just wouldn't be able to instantly locate all the bodies. That would neatly address the complaint I've seen here about this change taking up an extra internal slot to fully exploit the exploration mechanics.
 
Looks like there's going to be a public beta, so I'm sure we'll test the bejeezus out of it in VR, and then hope they listen to the feedback and sort any issues out in good time for full release.

Obviously the fear is that what they are proposing may not translate well in VR and it'll get left in limbo because, well VR is so niche... apparently.

(I've not played any multi-crew, so i'm not sure how the interfacing works in that, but I've not heard good reports... so I have several appendages and other parts of my anatomy crossed in hope that Q4 won't be a VR disaster!)

A VR disaster would be a PR disaster!
 
This all sounds pretty good. I think my only concern is over the removal of the ability to see what kinds of planets are in a system with the press of a button. It's a specific use case, but on long expeditions, where one has to travel upwards of 7,000ly in a single week, a lot of people (those with demanding jobs or those in school) may not have the time to scan every system they come across while making their way to the next waypoint. If we had fleet carriers, this issue would be somewhat resolved, as those with little time could do their exploration, then dock with their expedition's carrier to jump to the next waypoint, but....

Actually, I have a proposal here to help fix this. Have a way for the ADS to be able to determine what type of worlds are in the system, so a pilot who doesn't want to bother scanning every rocky or ice world doesn't waste their time in a system full of nothing but those.
 
This might make a few explorer-types happy. It does not make me happy, and for the reason I stated above - once the novelty value of that 'cool stuff' above has been done a few times, the time it takes to merely discover all bodies in a system is going to start grating. Again, please, picture doing this 10's, 100's 1000's of times - this is very quickly going to end up not being a fun activity.

This is exactly what was said about lots of aspects of the game, from hyperspace jumping, to super-cruise travel, to trading and combat. Yet the fact remains we're all still doing these things 10,000+ times, as they are the entire basis of the game. The current system is far too simplistic and has been for way too long. The proposed system is more like what I've had in my head for exploration in Elite since the Kickstarter.

That said, I'd still expect a rebalance to make first discovery of a fresh, Earth-like world, or life/ruins on any planet, more profitable than shifting a bunch or rich passengers a few light years.
 
So Adam answered Genar-Hofoen's question about the 'instant readability' of the new scan's energy spectrum compared to an ADS honk revealing the entire system's planets, relative position and distance from the system entry point, with "You will be able to use the energy spectrum to decide if there's something worthwhile".

Does the energy spectrum indicate range? A gas giant at 1000Ls is a lot more interesting than a gas giant at 350000Ls...

You'll be able to scan different ranges, so basically yes.
 
Okay you've actually made body discovery and exploration much worse - this is exactly what I tried to tell everyone in a few previous threads...

What you've done here looks great and probably is great.

Until you have to do this 10's, 100's, 1000's of times.

The good thing about the ADS honk is that it gives you a display of system bodies immediately. From that you could decide which bodies to go and do things with - surface scan them, fly down to their surface, etc.

Body discovery is currently quick. This new system is going to make it very slow.

This might make a few explorer-types happy. It does not make me happy, and for the reason I stated above - once the novelty value of that 'cool stuff' above has been done a few times, the time it takes to merely discover all bodies in a system is going to start grating. Again, please, picture doing this 10's, 100's 1000's of times - this is very quickly going to end up not being a fun activity.

Doing it 10's, 100's, 1000's of times not being fun, so you ar4e saying that the current Honk "gameplay" is better?

You really are space crazy!
 
*snip*
Will I be able to see if object has rings, or how far are 2 moons from the star without scanning them? Basically will i be able to still get all that information by just doing a initial honk after rework? (NVM, livestream answer: originally idea is that honk will give almost no information on other objects, only about star). If they keep it like this, then screw exploration.
*snip*

Just want to bump this because I think this is the glaring downside to the new changes (which otherwise seem really great). As someone who spends most of their time exploring, I'm usually not jumping system to system just to find earthlikes and water worlds. When I pull up the system map, I'm looking for tiny planets, binary planets with close orbits, moons orbiting very close to gas giants, stuff like that. Seeing interesting configurations is what makes me want to stay in a system and poke around, not the fact that there is an eartlike world somewhere. If I'm focused in on a gas giant, at the very least I would like to get some information about its moons. I'm just worried that it will be extremely difficult to distinguish between the potential dozens of rocky/icy worlds that exist in a system when they are just lumped together in a section of the energy spectrum.

A potential compromise incorporating the new system: We're looking around in the new signal scanning view or whatever and we locate a gas giant. When we focus in on it (tag it), give us some basic info about its moons. How many, orbit distance...stuff that a regular old ads honk would currently give us.
 
So, can we instead of removing completely the ADS honking, make it give us AT LEAST number of bodies and position? Remember this old bug with planets without textures on the system map?
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Showing just a black texture, not even the tooltip with all that info, just "SystemName - Planet", if you want to know the planet type, even the hologram on the dashboard, go scan it manually, but AT LEAST number of bodies and position so we can go to "Coolsystem Planet 5 Moon B" without needing to scan for 120 bodies in the system just to find a small moon.
 
...
What you've done here looks great and probably is great.

Until you have to do this 10's, 100's, 1000's of times....

Again, please, picture doing this 10's, 100's 1000's of times - this is very quickly going to end up not being a fun activity.

Same thing could be said about docking, could it not? Perhaps we need a button to press that instantly teleports us to the landing pad after exiting hyperspace. I mean, the process of lining up with the mail slot, requesting docking permission, find our landing pad, avoiding traffic, and landing "looks great and probably is great. Until you have to do this 10's, 100's, 1000's of times...."
 
@FDEV:

Please, for the love of all that is good. I only have ONE request to include in the exploration revamp update.

MAKE THE BLUE CIRCLE ON THE SCANNER VISIBLE AT ALTITUDES BELOW 2000 METERS

It is much more fun to fly low to the ground then high. The current gameplay loop is artificial, unsatisfying, and has kept me from exploring planets since the launch of horizons.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Will the new Scanner interface allow us to discover the new phenomena that are being added (such as the storms we've seen), or will they be a type of USS?

Will different Star types be able to be identified in the new Scanner View depending on their emissions, or will all main sequence stars have the same 'frequency'? And how will non sequence stars fit into the scale?

Will the Wave Scanner audio get boosted by 100% at least?
 
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