Opinions on combat logging

[Silabus]

Personally i dont mind combat logging in most cases. If some one is just trying to enjoy open play and minding their own buisness and a ship nabs um and the commander doesnt wanan fight. then thats fine. If the commander turns and fights then realizes they are gonna lose then no they shouldn't log.

ill put my most recent into view. Yes ive combat logged. not often usually i bear and grin the death but in few cases i will. I had just bought a cutter and got it mostly a graded and was using its amazing cargo to knock out some cheap but decent paying mission. usually go to the next system pick up 1000 of consumer and bring it back for 2 mill. i had jsut gotten back and had 40 mill in the bank (so enough for rebuy twice at this point) and got interdicted. seeing as it had taken me a few hours to even get that far i logged. wait a minute and jump back in only to realize the enemy commander is still in the sector. i tell a friend and they say that that comm camps the area and griefs everyone here. she nabs me again and i log once more and head back to mobius cause i dont wanna deal with it.

I do not like the fact that pvp or griefers can ruin hours of peoples game time just cause they want to swing their e- around a bit while i have to work at elite like its a second job just to get a decent amount of change in the game. it just doesn't seem fair that they can kill indiscriminately and ruin upwards of 6 hours of gameplay cause rewards are so low while i have the chance of getting banned for not wanting to fight at all. not once in this whole thing did i even try and turn around. i piped to full shields and started boosting but their ship must have been fully engineered cause my shields dropped faster then a Christmas single in January.

 

[philngraves]

I never said that menu logging was "good", only that it is an entirely legitimate action to escape a situation when a player finds themselves in a combat engagement that they can't possibly win. Menu logging is a symptom of the inherently broken "PVP" system in Elite where the vast majority of "fights" involve completely imbalanced griefing behavior, there is no effective C&P system and no meaningful consequences whatsoever for destroying new players. If a player feels that they need to resort to menu logging that is a legitimate option and the PVP community has no basis to claim it is "cheating" when FD have clearly said that it isn't. It's not a "good" solution by any means but it is an entirely predictable consequence of a larger problem that the PVP community seems to be completely unwilling to collectively address.

'Griefing' is pretty easy to understand. For one, you are never being 'griefed' because you were killed multiple times by the same person in the same system. This is where the misnomer sets in. If you leave the system and no longer get killed by said 'griefer' you weren't actually being 'griefed'.

Gank is more apropos imo. Of course I have been accused of 'griefing' someone after attacking them once. Most of the vocal targets share this sentiment. Thus I believe the misnomer of 'griefeing' is simply anyone that doesn't comply with your preferred gameplay.

In the end, logging out via the menu and randomly killing anyone in a system (exeption in noob systems) are both perfectly legitimate methods of play and neither violate the ToS.

That said, just as targeting someone specifically at the exclusion of other players and flying around a system with no activity other than to get interdicted and menu log as soon as the minigame starts could be construed as harassment, although you would need some form of communication between the parties to prove intent.

Not going to reply to the sub-argument on RP as I don't RP in Elite.

 

[Mohrgan]

the fact that we're even debating whether or not logging out during combat is ok or not is absurd lmao

every single person here defending menu logging swears they never use it, except two people who I respect for being honest.


man I bet the taliban wish they had a menu log button.

Absurdity as a specialty. You go kid. Makin' stuffs up it totally fun.

 

[Smaste]

Absurdity as a specialty. You go kid. Makin' stuffs up it totally fun.

That's the first thing I've learned from interacting with people on the forum...

you can make fallacious arguments but as long as you all shun the non-believers, all the problems just disappear.

 

[philngraves]

Absurdity as a specialty. You go kid. Makin' stuffs up it totally fun.

Fun and tasty, like a nice fondue.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's the first thing I've learned from interacting with people on the forum...

you can make fallacious arguments but as long as you all shun the non-believers, all the problems just disappear.

Nice. A life's mission in two lines. We can add a touch of reductionist to your resume.

 

[Devari]

You are just wrong.
You can learn a few techniques and spar your very first day.
It's not mutually exclusive.
Heck, BJJ is best known for letting strangers come in off of the street and fight if they want to, not even spar.
(Spar /= fight btw.)
Every school I've attended (4) has such an "open door policy".
(There is that word again!)

Which, again, means nothing if you effectively had zero skills to use during that first day. It's just semantics claiming it was "sparring" on the first day when you had no idea what you were doing.

You blocked them so you can't know.

Did you even read my post at all? I have had many PVP encounters during that time and have only blocked the worst offenders who were clearly only interested in griefing.

That is you being dishonest.
I don't take any of this seriously at all.
But I will refute silly non-arguments.

Except that you just claimed in a prior post it somehow affected your enjoyment of the game because ships don't have a "logout" button.

I never said "no skills whatsoever.
Don't lie.
You learn 2-6 techniques.
That's it.

You can't possibly suggest that "sparring" on your "first day" was a meaningful use of "skills" that you were just shown any more than I could suggest that firing rounds at a shooting range on my first day was "marksmanship training".

I used to teach the subject matter.

Then you were apparently a terrible "teacher" because you are not using that term correctly.

Then you were lying earlier.

How was I "lying" exactly? Sorry, but you need to actually read my posts here.

It was PVE/PVP combat.

What exactly does PVP combat have to do with your claim of getting to the "top 10%" of a CG when anyone can do this simply through grinding out bounties and letting the cops do most of the work?

I use the same ship for both types of combat.

That has no relevance to anything that I just explained. How is that not clear?

I don't expect a multirole ship to compete with a combat ship.
That is silly.

Yet you don't seem to understand that a PVP-equipped ship fighting a PVE-equipped ship is dramatically in favor of the PVP-equipped ship to the point that the fight is not remotely fair.

 

[Smaste]

Yet you don't seem to understand that a PVP-equipped ship fighting a PVE-equipped ship is dramatically in favor of the PVP-equipped ship to the point that the fight is not remotely fair.

maybe you should.... put the effort into upgrading your 'pve' ship??

 

[Devari]

maybe you should.... put the effort into upgrading your 'pve' ship??

Maybe you should … read my prior posts where I explained how PVP and PVE ships use completely different loadouts.

 

[Riverside]

don't care about the in game stuff, that's a game....the sneering on youtube was offensive, do you defend that?

Personally I don't hold much stock in the views of youtube commenters.

Learn from this, consider how you will take to being attacked before entering the system rather than after. Sometimes you just aren't in the mood, in those circumstances just switch to solo or a private group, switch back to Open whenever you like as long as your ship isn't in danger. You miss out on the thrill but you avoid the troublesome players too.

Alternatively you could use the block player function, although it isn't as reliable as the mode select you may find there are only a few players giving you trouble and the rest are within your personal bounds of reasonably behaviour. The block function will still block any chat from them even if they are in the same instance.

Play your own way, let them play theirs. It isn't against the rules to be a jerk, it isn't implicitly against the rules for them to try to goad you into breaking the rules.

Make use of one of this game's biggest strengths and choose who you want to share your gametime with, and play in the mode appropriate to your mood at the time.

 

[Smaste]

Maybe you should … read my prior posts where I explained how PVP and PVE ships use completely different loadouts.

mine don't...

maybe you shouldn't try exploring in an FDL.

 

[Mohrgan]

maybe you should.... put the effort into upgrading your 'pve' ship??

Hammers. It's not fair unless everyone flies hammers. After all, there is nothing but nails out there. D'uh.

Long ago I decided to leave the hammer factory, i.e. open, for a more varied toolbox. I miss nothing from the change.

 

[Smaste]

Hammers. It's not fair unless everyone flies hammers. After all, there is nothing but nails out there. D'uh.

Long ago I decided to leave the hammer factory, i.e. open, for a more varied toolbox. I miss nothing from the change.

I played solo until I got bored of the AI never putting up a decent fight...

but then again my 'pve' ship is just a well researched combat ship so it makes PVE laughably easy...

 

[Riverside]

mine don't...

maybe you shouldn't try exploring in an FDL.

Why shouldn't a player explore in any ship they choose? How is this any different from not needing a reason to attack another player?

Play your own way, let them play theirs.

 

[Devari]

mine don't...

How much cargo do you carry in a PVP-equipped ship that has zero cargo racks because the internals are completely filled with SCBs/HRPs/MRPs?

maybe you shouldn't try exploring in an FDL.

What does this statement even mean? No one is going out interdicting PVP players in a PVE-equipped ship, they are being interdicted and are specifically targeted because they are dramatically easier targets than a PVP-equipped combat ship would be.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Which, again, means nothing if you effectively had zero skills to use during that first day. It's just semantics claiming it was "sparring" on the first day when you had no idea what you were doing.

You are simply wrong.
Most BJJ schools are run this way.
You've never done it so you can't know what I'm talking about.

Did you even read my post at all? I have had many PVP encounters during that time and have only blocked the worst offenders who were clearly only interested in griefing.

Mindreading module detected!

Except that you just claimed in a prior post it somehow affected your enjoyment of the game because ships don't have a "logout" button.

Liar.

You can't possibly suggest that "sparring" on your "first day" was a meaningful use of "skills" that you were just shown any more than I could suggest that firing rounds at a shooting range on my first day was "marksmanship training".

I also hold many medals in riflery and have taken various handgun classes as well.
You are wrong again.
No quotes needed.
Youwere a poor marksman, no doubt.

Then you were apparently a terrible "teacher" because you are not using that term correctly.[/quoet]

Nope.
My students excel.

How was I "lying" exactly? Sorry, but you need to actually read my posts here.

It's right there.

What exactly does PVP combat have to do with your claim of getting to the "top 10%" of a CG when anyone can do this simply through grinding out bounties and letting the cops do most of the work?

I only use HazRES and the same ship for both, at the same time, that's what.
And it demonstrably works well, based on my results.

That has no relevance to anything that I just explained. How is that not clear?



Yet you don't seem to understand that a PVP-equipped ship fighting a PVE-equipped ship is dramatically in favor of the PVP-equipped ship to the point that the fight is not remotely fair.

No, you are just all over the place.
It is a false dichotomy.
Just make one ship for combat.
Forget PVE/PVP entirely.

 

[Smaste]

How much cargo do you carry in a PVP-equipped ship that has zero cargo racks because the internals are completely filled with SCBs/HRPs/MRPs?

Well my Cutter can fit a good 400-600T depending on how easy mode I want escaping from pirates to be.
Here's the process: Enter system, select nearby star in menu, submit to interdiction, point to star, press J.
taunt pirates in chat

What does this statement even mean? No one is going out interdicting PVP players in a PVE-equipped ship, they are being interdicted and are specifically targeted because they are dramatically easier targets than a PVP-equipped combat ship would be.

It means you should equip your ship for the task at hand, and select an appropriate ship for the job.

If you go exploring in an FDL you can't b**** about its jump range.

If you get rekt in PvP flying an Anaconda with 5D shields, maybe you should have thought about balancing defence, offence, and the role you want to fulfill.

By the way, I've been interdicted constantly at the CG for the past 2 days.

Haven't died yet, funnily enough.

 

[Riverside]

It means you should equip your ship for the task at hand, and select an appropriate ship for the job.

This has nothing to do with exploration. Play however you like, with whoever you like. Not complaining about how others choose to play is the key.

 

[Smaste]

This has nothing to do with exploration. Play however you like, with whoever you like. Not complaining about how others choose to play is the key.

then expect to die... a lot lmao

 

[Riverside]

then expect to die... a lot lmao

And yet strangely, I don't Not to other players anyway

Your views are simplistic & fail to account for the wider game beyond your narrow view.