Medium passenger ship and Orca/Beluga buff.

[Jaylem]

In looking at a lot of scenarios where people needed to operate a medium platform (or in some cases just needed a good ship for passengers) almost everyone turns to the Python for this purpose. I am not saying that's a bad thing, the ship is arguably one of the best multi-roles in the game! however it feels like it is filling a void for what could be an actual VALID addition of a ship (not just reskinning them like the Crusader )

Ideally what i'd like to see is a Saud Kruger ship with the usual Cabin locked internals, but that competes with the Python's internal flexibility, making it the ideal choice for passenger missions. however Saud Kruger style, it won't fair well to being shot at, making the Python the best choice for protected transport.

however, if a transport was added with this sort of internals, it would render the Orca obsolete, as it's internals are surprisingly FAR fewer than the python (python has 3 size 5's and a few more internals over the Orca) with the Orca being a bit bigger than the python, it could be reasonable to add extra internals to beef it up a touch more ( add the equivalent of 2 size 6's cabin locked(size 6=2x size 5=4x size 4 etc)) and to compensate again once more the Beluga receives an extra Size 6 equivalent (or maybe a bit more as it is the largest ship in the game )


In doing this we will achieve two things, one is to further define transport ships and make them the ideal choice over multi-roles, and the second is to make transport ships more realistic and useful. having a 200m ship only carry as many people as a Boeing 747 is a little sad, that or there must be ALOT of leg room in economy!! )

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

You know, Passenger missions could very well be next on the list of ED's things to do, an the moment they're tacked onto Trade and Exploration, and to be honest that's just rubbish.

There are just three passenger vessels at the moment and dozens of multi role vessels which carry more passengers (annual tally) and that's shocking, a player should have a list as long as her/his arm for passengers wanting to go 'Where the player is going' at reasonable costs... not silly 24mcr for a lunch break journey there and back. (I dunno if it's still like that) but Passenger transporting needs some love and a category all of it's own, including some dedicated ships that do only what a coach/Taxi/Limo/747 can do.

 

[Jaylem]

You know, Passenger missions could very well be next on the list of ED's things to do, an the moment they're tacked onto Trade and Exploration, and to be honest that's just rubbish.

There are just three passenger vessels at the moment and dozens of multi role vessels which carry more passengers (annual tally) and that's shocking, a player should have a list as long as her/his arm for passengers wanting to go 'Where the player is going' at reasonable costs... not silly 24mcr for a lunch break journey there and back. (I dunno if it's still like that) but Passenger transporting needs some love and a category all of it's own, including some dedicated ships that do only what a coach/Taxi/Limo/747 can do.

They do need a serious revisit, I am actually not fussed about the money as so much, more so the realism and usability of Transport vessels as a whole. for example as you say, they need to out perform ALL other vessels at their role to be viable once again for transport. this is their purpose after all, otherwise what's the point.. second cabins need to be scaled properly, for the room they offer they carry far too little people, to the degree that Economy class would have much more room than our first class today. with 32 people to a size 6 slot is a bit sad, these numbers should easily be triple that to reflect on the airliners of our time. the pay will need to be scaled appropriately, but it would be much nicer!! and make you feel like you are flying an actual liner!

 

[C64Fan]

The Dolphin, Orca and the Beluga are the only ships that can have luxury passenger modules installed, so FD could just make luxury passenger missions considerably more lucrative, and perhaps more common. Job done.

 

[Jaylem]

The Dolphin, Orca and the Beluga are the only ships that can have luxury passenger modules installed, so FD could just make luxury passenger missions considerably more lucrative, and perhaps more common. Job done.

Yeah we know that, but for bulk transport the numbers just don't add up, Lux cabins would have enough room to resemble a small apartment block for each person on a size 6 (with only 8 people), probably more room

I do agree that Lux missions can be a tad low, and very rare. considering they are specific to transports there is almost no incentive (yet again) to use them over a fully kitted transport python. it would be better to just revisit the lot (Liner module capacity, number of people and luxury pay scaling) to make these specific ships a heap more useful! It would be pretty fun transporting over 600 people on a Beluga economy class

 

[Nadreck]

I know I've said this before, but it probably bears pointing out again:

Take one Beluga (dedicated passenger liner, biggest player-flyable ship in ED) and one Python (medium-pad multirole ship, not even a passenger liner). Add the smallest shield that will work (that's a size 6 for the Beluga, a size 3 for the Python). Then have a look at the remaining internals:

Beluga: 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 3 3 3
Python: 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 2

Yep, a shielded full-passenger-load Beluga is identical to a shielded full-passenger-load Python, except at the very bottom of the cabin size range.

 

[MK Regular]

I agree that the Beluga should get a buff. It is the largest dedicated passenger ship and the largest ship in the game, and yet it gets out-paxed by all of the big 3. The only reason to pick a beluga over any of the big 3 is if you need a luxury cabin, and those missions aren't particularly worthwhile due to their payout and the rate at which they occur. In every other instance, using one of the big 3 is the better choice. IMO the easiest way to correct this would be to give the Beluga another size 6 internal to give it the highest pax count in the game. Whether or not said internal is restricted or not remains to be seen, but having another lare unrestricted slot would allow the Beluga to use a shield, fuel scoop, and fighter bay at the same time. Based on the various 'quirks' that I've heard that the Beluga has, I do not have any interest in flying one of these in the near future when I can do a better job with my Conda.

I'm not sure what to do the Orca. I haven't flown one, so I can't really attest to how good or bad it is when it comes to passenger missions.

Honestly, the Dolphin is fine. It has the second highest pax for any small ship at 42 (the Cobra IV has 44), but it doesn't really matter. I have flown a Dolphin, and I can tell you that it flies like a dream. If you really want to have the extra 2 pax on a small ship, you are more than welcome to subject yourself to the form of torture recognized under the Geneva Convention that is the Cobra IV.

 

[Jaylem]

I know I've said this before, but it probably bears pointing out again:

Take one Beluga (dedicated passenger liner, biggest player-flyable ship in ED) and one Python (medium-pad multirole ship, not even a passenger liner). Add the smallest shield that will work (that's a size 6 for the Beluga, a size 3 for the Python). Then have a look at the remaining internals:

Beluga: 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 3 3 3
Python: 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 2

Yep, a shielded full-passenger-load Beluga is identical to a shielded full-passenger-load Python, except at the very bottom of the cabin size range.

I agree that the Beluga should get a buff. It is the largest dedicated passenger ship and the largest ship in the game, and yet it gets out-paxed by all of the big 3. The only reason to pick a beluga over any of the big 3 is if you need a luxury cabin, and those missions aren't particularly worthwhile due to their payout and the rate at which they occur. In every other instance, using one of the big 3 is the better choice. IMO the easiest way to correct this would be to give the Beluga another size 6 internal to give it the highest pax count in the game. Whether or not said internal is restricted or not remains to be seen, but having another lare unrestricted slot would allow the Beluga to use a shield, fuel scoop, and fighter bay at the same time. Based on the various 'quirks' that I've heard that the Beluga has, I do not have any interest in flying one of these in the near future when I can do a better job with my Conda.

I'm not sure what to do the Orca. I haven't flown one, so I can't really attest to how good or bad it is when it comes to passenger missions.

Honestly, the Dolphin is fine. It has the second highest pax for any small ship at 42 (the Cobra IV has 44), but it doesn't really matter. I have flown a Dolphin, and I can tell you that it flies like a dream. If you really want to have the extra 2 pax on a small ship, you are more than welcome to subject yourself to the form of torture recognized under the Geneva Convention that is the Cobra IV.

Yeah, these ships are really sad in general, I own both an Orca (it is surprisingly good for speed and attacked station evac!) and yesterday I bought a beluga for a laugh. will never use it but it's in my collection anyway

It keeps coming back to the modules, both of these ships have far too little capacity frothier size, would be cool to have a passenger count bonus for liner ships (x2 capacity when using cabins on liners) then they would trump the competition by a mile!

 

[C64Fan]

I agree that the Beluga should get a buff. It is the largest dedicated passenger ship and the largest ship in the game, and yet it gets out-paxed by all of the big 3. The only reason to pick a beluga over any of the big 3 is if you need a luxury cabin, and those missions aren't particularly worthwhile due to their payout and the rate at which they occur. In every other instance, using one of the big 3 is the better choice. IMO the easiest way to correct this would be to give the Beluga another size 6 internal to give it the highest pax count in the game. Whether or not said internal is restricted or not remains to be seen, but having another lare unrestricted slot would allow the Beluga to use a shield, fuel scoop, and fighter bay at the same time. Based on the various 'quirks' that I've heard that the Beluga has, I do not have any interest in flying one of these in the near future when I can do a better job with my Conda.

I'm not sure what to do the Orca. I haven't flown one, so I can't really attest to how good or bad it is when it comes to passenger missions.

Honestly, the Dolphin is fine. It has the second highest pax for any small ship at 42 (the Cobra IV has 44), but it doesn't really matter. I have flown a Dolphin, and I can tell you that it flies like a dream. If you really want to have the extra 2 pax on a small ship, you are more than welcome to subject yourself to the form of torture recognized under the Geneva Convention that is the Cobra IV.

Yes, I agree a small buff wouldn’t hurt - but things are not as black & white as you put it.

It’s way more maneuverable than the Anaconda and the Cutter. I am not so sure about the Corvette. And if you put heavy passenger modules in the Python, Cutter or Corvette they will get a huge hit on their jumprange, but not in the Beluga. There’s also the incredible view from the cockpit in the Beluga, which for me counts for something too. And the looks - it looks like a passenger liner, the others don’t.

 

[OldSchoolPlayer]

Yes, I agree a small buff wouldn’t hurt - but things are not as black & white as you put it.

It’s way more maneuverable than the Anaconda and the Cutter. I am not so sure about the Corvette. And if you put heavy passenger modules in the Python, Cutter or Corvette they will get a huge hit on their jumprange, but not in the Beluga. There’s also the incredible view from the cockpit in the Beluga, which for me counts for something too. And the looks - it looks like a passenger liner, the others don’t.

Saud Kruger is bankrupt. I doubt they will make anymore investment on ships.

 

[RamirezKurita]

To be honest, both the Orca and the Beluga could do with simply having 60-100% additional internal capacity, possibly readjusting hull mass if the jump range falls too much. This would bring them in line with comparable ships, generally having longer jump ranges and the option for luxury cabins compared to traditional freighters but with lower capacity and high costs. The Beluga could also do with at least one super-size slot, either a class 7 or class 8 (this may require class 7/8 passenger cabins to be added), which would provide both additional carrying capacity as well as the option for a decent shield generator for those that expect danger.

To a certain degree, I do feel that the sheer number of different cabin types in the game are unnecessary, as they don't really add anything except additional busywork. They could easily strip out business class cabins without having any real impact on the game, leaving normal ships with first class and economy cabins.​

Yeah we know that, but for bulk transport the numbers just don't add up, Lux cabins would have enough room to resemble a small apartment block for each person on a size 6 (with only 8 people), probably more room

A small apartment complex per person does make some degree of sense for a luxury cabin. Cinemas, tennis courts and swimming pools take up a fair amount of space, not to mention the vast automated kitchens that can expertly prepare food to a royal standard. In fact, in terms of tonnes per cabin overall the ship is only 50% more than that of a modern day cruise liner; if you fill out the smaller bays with first class and business class for the plebians, then the cabins/tonne becomes roughly equal to a normal cruise ship.

 

[MK Regular]

Yes, I agree a small buff wouldn’t hurt - but things are not as black & white as you put it.

It’s way more maneuverable than the Anaconda and the Cutter. I am not so sure about the Corvette. And if you put heavy passenger modules in the Python, Cutter or Corvette they will get a huge hit on their jumprange, but not in the Beluga. There’s also the incredible view from the cockpit in the Beluga, which for me counts for something too. And the looks - it looks like a passenger liner, the others don’t.

More maneuverable? It depends really. Yes you have better yaw than the big 3, but you will lose to the Conda and Corvette in pitch and roll. Yeah you can out maneuver the Cutter, but you will never outrun it and the Cutter isn't exactly known for being agile in the first place (it's likened to a T9 with rocket boosters strapped to the back). Overall, you can probably count on being more maneuverable than the Conda with a speed and boost advantage. As for the Corvette, you will probably only have an advantage in terms of boost speed.

The extra jump range that the Beluga 'gets' seems nice, until you put a size 5 FSD booster on one of the big 3 and get similar more laden jump range and passenger capacity than the Beluga. To add insult to injury, in order to mount a size 5 FSD booster on the Beluga you need to give up one of your 2 unlocked size 6 slots. Maybe the Beluga needs a pair of size 5s instead of an additional size 6?

Good cockpit visibility is a nice thing to have, but I personally find that I spend most of my time looking more or less directly ahead. While it would be nice to be able to look directly up in the Conda, I personally find that it isn't necessary. YMMV.

As for the looks, I think the Beluga looks like a dong with wings. Again, YMMV.

 

[C64Fan]

^^^ Yeah, I stand by what I said - but each to their own. I love to fly my two Belugas, and they have earned me a ton of money. If it had just one less restricted compartment (so 3 in total) I would explore in them too. One of my friends does that already.

 

[Jaylem]

To be honest, both the Orca and the Beluga could do with simply having 60-100% additional internal capacity, possibly readjusting hull mass if the jump range falls too much. This would bring them in line with comparable ships, generally having longer jump ranges and the option for luxury cabins compared to traditional freighters but with lower capacity and high costs. The Beluga could also do with at least one super-size slot, either a class 7 or class 8 (this may require class 7/8 passenger cabins to be added), which would provide both additional carrying capacity as well as the option for a decent shield generator for those that expect danger.

To a certain degree, I do feel that the sheer number of different cabin types in the game are unnecessary, as they don't really add anything except additional busywork. They could easily strip out business class cabins without having any real impact on the game, leaving normal ships with first class and economy cabins.​

A small apartment complex per person does make some degree of sense for a luxury cabin. Cinemas, tennis courts and swimming pools take up a fair amount of space, not to mention the vast automated kitchens that can expertly prepare food to a royal standard. In fact, in terms of tonnes per cabin overall the ship is only 50% more than that of a modern day cruise liner; if you fill out the smaller bays with first class and business class for the plebians, then the cabins/tonne becomes roughly equal to a normal cruise ship.

I think in general they need a massive revision on internal space, you mentioned something I didn't think of, I was only comparing them to airliners, and how they carry a hilariously low amount compared to them, except these ships have a size akin to some of the "floating cities" we have. The Queen Mary 2 for instance (350M long) can carry 2600 people... comfortably… Beluga (200M) can barley carry much over 160 in economy no less!!!!!!!

So if we compare them to liner ships, these Saud Kruger ships are beyond sad... so much so I think I just vomited a little in my mouth when I saw the stats.

More maneuverable? It depends really. Yes you have better yaw than the big 3, but you will lose to the Conda and Corvette in pitch and roll. Yeah you can out maneuver the Cutter, but you will never outrun it and the Cutter isn't exactly known for being agile in the first place (it's likened to a T9 with rocket boosters strapped to the back). Overall, you can probably count on being more maneuverable than the Conda with a speed and boost advantage. As for the Corvette, you will probably only have an advantage in terms of boost speed.

The extra jump range that the Beluga 'gets' seems nice, until you put a size 5 FSD booster on one of the big 3 and get similar more laden jump range and passenger capacity than the Beluga. To add insult to injury, in order to mount a size 5 FSD booster on the Beluga you need to give up one of your 2 unlocked size 6 slots. Maybe the Beluga needs a pair of size 5s instead of an additional size 6?

Good cockpit visibility is a nice thing to have, but I personally find that I spend most of my time looking more or less directly ahead. While it would be nice to be able to look directly up in the Conda, I personally find that it isn't necessary. YMMV.

As for the looks, I think the Beluga looks like a dong with wings. Again, YMMV.

I'll hand it to them, those Saud Kruger ships really handle nicely!! and the view is very nice! but that's about it... as for the rest of the internals, they are abysmal to say the least. hence why these ships need a serious revisit to make them ideal for transport!

 

[C64Fan]

I think in general they need a massive revision on internal space, you mentioned something I didn't think of, I was only comparing them to airliners, and how they carry a hilariously low amount compared to them, except these ships have a size akin to some of the "floating cities" we have. The Queen Mary 2 for instance (350M long) can carry 2600 people... comfortably… Beluga (200M) can barley carry much over 160 in economy no less!!!!!!!

So if we compare them to liner ships, these Saud Kruger ships are beyond sad... so much so I think I just vomited a little in my mouth when I saw the stats.



I'll hand it to them, those Saud Kruger ships really handle nicely!! and the view is very nice! but that's about it... as for the rest of the internals, they are abysmal to say the least. hence why these ships need a serious revisit to make them ideal for transport!

It’s a matter of mindset. I wouldn’t mind if I could only carry 50 people in the Beluga if I got the same amount of money for it. I have honestly never thought about it - that 160 people or something wasn’t a lot. It isn’t - of course. But we are playing a game where we can travel with many times the speed of light - and reach that speed in seconds without getting squashed - and we are dealing with Thargoids....and so much more.......... so I honestly don’t have the slightest problem with the fact that we can only carry about 160 people in the Beluga. But then again - each to their own.

 

[Nadreck]

One suggestion I've seen on here is a one-size increase in three of the Beluga's internals: one locked size 5 becomes a 6, the unlocked 4 becomes a 5, and one 3 becomes a 4. Personally I don't see why such a large ship has so many size 3 compartments, so I'd upgrade another 3 to a 4 also.

Old Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 5 5) 4 3 3 3 3
New Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 6 5) 5 4 4 3 3

(reserved passenger cabin slots in brackets)

As for the Orca: rather than increasing its capacity to rival the Beluga, another possibility would be to make it heavier and increase the size of the FSD from 5 to 6. At present, the Orca's hull mass is 290t, only 10t heavier than an AspX: the T7 weighs in at 350t (same as the Python), and the Clipper weighs 400t (same as the Anaconda). The Anaconda is the lightest ship with a size 6 FSD. So make the Orca weigh about the same as the Anaconda and the Clipper (maybe slightly more, say 420t), and increase life-support size from 6 to 7 (it's a luxury passenger liner, after all), and a size 6 fuel tank. This gives it a clear role as a fast passenger liner: if the Beluga is a 747, the Orca is a Concorde.

 

[Jaylem]

It’s a matter of mindset. I wouldn’t mind if I could only carry 50 people in the Beluga if I got the same amount of money for it. I have honestly never thought about it - that 160 people or something wasn’t a lot. It isn’t - of course. But we are playing a game where we can travel with many times the speed of light - and reach that speed in seconds without getting squashed - and we are dealing with Thargoids....and so much more.......... so I honestly don’t have the slightest problem with the fact that we can only carry about 160 people in the Beluga. But then again - each to their own.

True, I mean one thin I do hate about economy is the leg room, or lack there of to put it correctly. having a full room to myself and still call it economy is a steal!!! Please take me to the future now!

Would you not feel empowered and responsible if you could carry over 1,000 people? of course the payouts would need to be scaled. but it would be fun RP wise I guess, also a lot more realistic which I also like a fair bit

what would be Epic is rescuing that amount of people from one of those burning stations! just increase passenger per cabin and mission payout per passenger by a factor of 10-20 (so economy with 32 space is now 320-640, mission for 10 people is 100-200) that way we can have the realistic figures but not break the game

One suggestion I've seen on here is a one-size increase in three of the Beluga's internals: one locked size 5 becomes a 6, the unlocked 4 becomes a 5, and one 3 becomes a 4. Personally I don't see why such a large ship has so many size 3 compartments, so I'd upgrade another 3 to a 4 also.

Old Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 5 5) 4 3 3 3 3
New Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 6 5) 5 4 4 3 3

(reserved passenger cabin slots in brackets)

As for the Orca: rather than increasing its capacity to rival the Beluga, another possibility would be to make it heavier and increase the size of the FSD from 5 to 6. At present, the Orca's hull mass is 290t, only 10t heavier than an AspX: the T7 weighs in at 350t (same as the Python), and the Clipper weighs 400t (same as the Anaconda). The Anaconda is the lightest ship with a size 6 FSD. So make the Orca weigh about the same as the Anaconda and the Clipper (maybe slightly more, say 420t), and increase life-support size from 6 to 7 (it's a luxury passenger liner, after all), and a size 6 fuel tank. This gives it a clear role as a fast passenger liner: if the Beluga is a 747, the Orca is a Concorde.

I'd happily welcome ANY increase to the ships, they need a lot more love, is it really that much to ask??

 

[Braandlin]

I think the answer is to have passengers pay a premium for travelling on a "nice ship" but some be prepared to pay less to go on a "not so nice ship"

Think of the difference between Emirates and Ryan Air - both will get you there (usually) but in somewhat different levels of service. And at least both of those are using recognised commercial aircraft. Would you get on an aeroplane that was simply a cargo transporter with some seats thrown in?

variable willingness to travel on different ships and a willingness to pay more or less for different levels of perceived ervice...

 

[Shir]

I must have made more than a billion during the past month with my beluga. Some in Pleiades, some in Robigo. Bought reactive armor for my Cutter, got a Chieftain, Fas and Fds, couple of small ships. Don't underestimate these luxury cabin missions, find the right systems and they do make these ships worth it.

 

[MK Regular]

One suggestion I've seen on here is a one-size increase in three of the Beluga's internals: one locked size 5 becomes a 6, the unlocked 4 becomes a 5, and one 3 becomes a 4. Personally I don't see why such a large ship has so many size 3 compartments, so I'd upgrade another 3 to a 4 also.

Old Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 5 5) 4 3 3 3 3
New Beluga: 6 6 (6 6 6 5) 5 4 4 3 3

(reserved passenger cabin slots in brackets)

I can get behind this. These size increases would give the Beluga the best pax in the game, while also being a better choice overall than adding a new compartment(s) to the ship.

As for the Orca: rather than increasing its capacity to rival the Beluga, another possibility would be to make it heavier and increase the size of the FSD from 5 to 6. At present, the Orca's hull mass is 290t, only 10t heavier than an AspX: the T7 weighs in at 350t (same as the Python), and the Clipper weighs 400t (same as the Anaconda). The Anaconda is the lightest ship with a size 6 FSD. So make the Orca weigh about the same as the Anaconda and the Clipper (maybe slightly more, say 420t), and increase life-support size from 6 to 7 (it's a luxury passenger liner, after all), and a size 6 fuel tank. This gives it a clear role as a fast passenger liner: if the Beluga is a 747, the Orca is a Concorde.

This would be nice, but maybe give the Orca a bit more than 420T hull? 450T to 500T maybe? I don't really want a repeat of the Conda's broken jump range