LOL no, you didn't read the WIP did you? Perhaps you should check it out.
edit: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13973-WIP-Arena-Commander-HUD
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LOL no, you didn't read the WIP did you? Perhaps you should check it out.
edit: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13973-WIP-Arena-Commander-HUD
So what? Only 1 version has been released, and is being corrected based on criticism. This is 1 of the many passes there will probably be before release, and if you can't see or understand how or why the efforts are not wasted, you just don't know much about production.
So you don't understand what you said means? Ok, what ever floats your boat.
Its not literally its first pass as its been created and modified multiple times, so unless you want to change the definition of literally. hahaha.
Ah so because I disagree with you that means I don't know much about production. Hey nice ad hominem, do you have a point to go with it? I say they are wasted, because I understand production.
Edit: I do like the fact that you stated that CIG have no idea what they are doing and can not create the game internally and are forced to rely on the better judgment of the backers. Perhaps the backers should be in charge, make the game by committee, as its clear CIG can't do it right on their own.
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No, I don't really care if you disagree with me and that's not why I said you knew little about production, I said you knew little about production because you claimed that their previous passes not only lead to a polished UI in a pre alpa, but also that it was wasted. "...if you spend months polishing and such just to turn around and throw it out, that leads to wasting money and time." It's all part of the process buddy, anyone who knows even a bare minimum about production knows this.
Also how does this have anything to do with them knowing what they are doing or not? What pre alpha game doesnt drastically change during production? This is what I mean by you seemingly not knowing anything about production, even without user criticism, I guarantee you that the UI would have changed before its release in 2 years. Whether in games or in movies, ideas get tossed around all the time mid production, and directors always ALWAYS change their minds and improve on the idea's once the product is coming to life.
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Seriously? This forum never amazes me sometimes. It was obvious that the HUD would go through many revisions. This whole the CIG community praises everything so nothing gets fixed thing is so untrue. Everytime they release something they say it's not finished yet and declare what they will do with it. They listed 0.9 features/imrovements before everybody even gave feedback on AC. They know what's missing and what's not that good about the game too.
I think a big part of the first half year and maybe even now is learning the engine and the tools (dont you remember the first videos where crydevs came to help and how the CIG devs sometimes messed up? Its all much better now). theres a reason cryengine isnt so popular cause there are not so many people using it - and time is money - and predictability is also time.
As hard as that sounds but with every new guy hired the process begins new. And dont you think inventing a new state of the art game with state of the art techniques alone is taking a lot of leanring?
I think a good part of the learning is also toying around with it a bit. you can easily see how the learning progressed and how they used it - at first it was the hangar and some more rooms and assets etc then the lights and the shaders with pbr, then some more models and movement, then netcode etc etc
its not like they are starting developing 100% at the first second "working". they have to learn the tools, they have to learn the vision etc..
as an Eng I think you might have clearer rules to follow and a set aim what to reach. aswell you use the tools you know. now imagine you have to built something more vaguely (that changes any moment as more money comes in) with tools you never used before... you would need time to feel comfort..
I feel a little resentment here towards starcitizen and cig, and I dont know why. its not fair to say the least.
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And that is my point. CIG put a lot of efforts into very bad ideas. Look at the Freelancer its was so poorly done that it never should have been made with those struts in the first place, nvm all the other screw ups CIG have done. Trying something and learning the tools is not a blanket excuse to screw up and make poor decisions over and over again. Again what has changed because of more money? The core game is still the same, it was always going to have ship combat, it was always going to have a FM, more money increase the amount of stuff in the finished product not the core game play.
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New Huds will be in 1.0.
but building this ship and making those mistakes is also part of the learning process. there goes an old saying: cant learnt without making mistakes..
I dont see why thats such a big problem.. it wont be perfect the first time, but it can be later - and as you see it gets better and better.. and this toying around with models and ideas is important to feel comfortable with the tools, the environment etc
creativity needs freedom.
At least what it shows is that SC gets better every cycle - this tendency is clear for me to see.
I dont understand the reason for the hate.. theres no need for that.. Elite will be great too. yes it has a smaller fanbase and a smaller amount of developers. But look what they achieved! I am so glad that two good space sim games are coming out! and I respect each crew..
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Reopening.
Here's the deal - from now on ANYONE involved in an argument beyond reporting a post gets an infraction. I don't care who starts it, if you continue it then you get infracted. REPORT - IGNORE - if you respond in kind by arguing then you're getting an infraction, simples.
I really hope that this is clear enough because you all appear to have missed it the last 10-15 times.
Here's the deal - from now on ANYONE involved in an argument beyond reporting a post gets an infraction. I don't care who starts it, if you continue it then you get infracted. REPORT - IGNORE - if you respond in kind by arguing then you're getting an infraction, simples.
I really hope that this is clear enough because you all appear to have missed it the last 10-15 times.
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Totally agree.
CIG have repeatedly created content that has to be redone, removed, and drastically modified. Only badly managed companies run this way, sure company make mistakes and can and do learn from them, but CIG have to rely on the backers to point out those screw ups, it happens over and over again.
The current HUD is a prim example of CIG and specifically CR having no clue what he is doing. They took a functional good HUD and made it crappy in the name of making it flashy. CIG have to redo so much not because they are trying something, but because they don't think ahead to other mechanics in the game. Tweaking and adjusting is normal, but overhaul is not.
Yes playing with the software and seeing what you can do is a good thing, the problem lies in the fact that CIG routinely do things that have to be redone because they started to actually think about other mechanics in the game, that is a bad trend and ends up wasting money and time.
Look at the Constellation, the layout and set up of the ship should have been worked out in sketches and basic models, instead it was fully modeled and then changed. Same for the 300i, the Avenger will have to be changed as it currently works on magic. How did the struct in the Freelancer get past concept image stage? CIG should not be relying on the backers to fix and see the problems in the game from a mechanics point of view. I thought the point was that CIG would make the game they wanted? When did it change to "what the most backers want"?
edit: There is no hate, people really need to drop this false idea that people hate the game if they give any criticism of it. Just so you know, I have put more money into SC then ED, and there are many aspects that if done will I am really looking forward to playing. But its this wasting money and time that is leading CIG to sell in game product placement, and its constant drive to bring in more money. CR has never been good with time or money, and sadly it has not changed.
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look at this for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0m_RZgB61E
now compare it to the videos 1-2 years back. I can see a great deal of improvement. And in my eyes its totally worth it for what it is. (isnt it the small details that improves immersion by such a great deal? - I mean in which game the car / ship gets dirtier subtle the more often you use it? In no game ever if we listened to the consoles..)
In the vid they are talking about more in depth what they are doing graphically / technically. I doubt they knew all this back when they started and messed up the hangar mist for example.
they are pushing the boundaries / the limits of whats possible. that wont go without mistakes.
And I give you that: theres a 100% chance that everything they have done so far could have been done quicker, better by someone else maybe.. but nobody is perfect. they are trying, and they are successfull even if someone else might be more efficient.
CIG aint probably the most efficient bunch of people, but they are loving what theyre doing and thats enough for me. I hope the money is enough to fulfill the dreams!
For what CR is doing one needs massive balls (he is literally hanging in there relying on the backers) - he is achieving nothing less than a small revolution in gaming - and he put his good name on the stake! back to the roots, back to the Hardware heavy technically forward-looking games of the nineties!
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See, I don't see them pushing boundaries/ the limits of whats possible, they have just thrown everything including the toilet into a single game, or at least that is what they are trying to do.
Of course the game will get better, that happens in every game (well not during the SWtOR closed beta, I was in the close beta, it got worse as time went on).
Them loving their job is not enough for me, I expect the game that I helped found will be produced. What if the city workers just loved their jobs but didn't do it very well, would you not complain? What about your Doctor? CR has already stated that they don't have the money currently to finish the game.
Then we add in that CIG's dream changes all the time and is not consistent.
I don't think you understand what I am saying, it has nothing to do with mistakes made because of learning the tech, or trying something new. I am talking about mistakes that happen because CIG does not look at the full picture, I am talking about redoing work that was done to sell ships and make money. I am talking about fundamental mistakes that are made in order to be flashy, ignoring its impact on gameplay.
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Sorry but what revaluation? We have had hardware pushing games for some time, its not new, many games have done it, in fact its the reason CR picked Cryengine in the first place. I also don't see any technology forward thinking. If anything CR is stuck in the tried and true method of creating a game. CIG is not much different than many game publishers, selling pay wall limited alpha's, pushing transactions, P2W, hiding behind PR, all flash and no substance.
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Well actually all of this is mainly about eye candy, it's precisely the 90' pointless tech "revolution" all over again. From a gameplay perspective, it doesn't bring anything. That's where CIG is missing the point: core gameplay and Space component seem to go more and more in the depths of their priority list at every communication, as if they were less essential than the spaceships' nuts and bolts, and scratches apparently.
Can you please explain how SC is "achieving" a small revolution?
I mean how can you tell it's in the process of doing so?
Having a few basic disconnected demos isn't proof of being able to achieve the end product (especially when we're promised so many many many features).
Can we wait and see something groundbreaking that's actually functional and then call it for what it is?
Personally I like the process of seeing the game evolve, stuff always gets thrown away, you just don't normally get to see the alpha stuff that is an evolutionary dead-end, you just get the end product.
In software dev, when you take on a 3rd party framework to build on, CryEngine in this case, you sign up for a period of pain for every developer, and you know you are going to do stuff wrong and have to throw things away. This is even more so in game development where the pace of technological change makes most other industries look positively stone age.
In software dev, when you take on a 3rd party framework to build on, CryEngine in this case, you sign up for a period of pain for every developer, and you know you are going to do stuff wrong and have to throw things away. This is even more so in game development where the pace of technological change makes most other industries look positively stone age.
It's been a while since the topic of crews and stations on ships came a long. Here is a list of what we know from the design.
Ship setup:
Confirmed facts & features:
Confirmed 'Seat Actions' (Roles will be more merged together for the small ships):
Confirmed Downtime/off-duty roles:
Additional:
Additional information about Engineering & Power Routing roles:
Ship setup:
- Compact ships (1-3 seater) will use a HUD-style system that allows for basic access to most systems.
- Medium ships (lancer, connie etc) will expand to individual support roles, such as tagging enemies and power management.
- Capital ships (Idris and larger), will separate the roles further, such as having a console dedicated to advanced power management.
Confirmed facts & features:
- Each player must rely on another player for certain information in multi-crew ships
- Each 'task' you can perform at a station is referred as a 'SEAT ACTION' (yes, in caps)
- The Captain of the ship can create 'Roles' that combine multiple seat actions.
- The Captain can then choose to assign the created role to a certain player, or to a bridge station.
- A system called PRIVILEGES will be added, where the Captain/owner can assign a crewman to a certain security level. This prevents untrusted recruits or hired help from sending sensitive information to an enemy fleet (aka the spying mechanic)
- Some seat actions might pull more from the ship's computer systems than others (such as a hacking module)
- The crew will retain their roles and positions regardless if them or their captain is online or not
- The captain can lockout access to specific functions and control them by themselves if they wish (eg keeping the crew in the dark about their current location in space)
- Boarding parties can hack and override the Security Privileges system (in order to gain access to a station, for example)
- There will be an optional chain of command system, where command can fall to the next player in line if the captain is incapacitated
- If the CoC system doesn't suit you, there will be an optional setting so an organization can choose the captain remotely
- Stations will eventually support finger-tracking VR systems (you can pretend you're actually a starfleet officer)
- Small ships such as the Super Hornet will have less customisation. Generally the pilot will be flying and gunning, while the second player will manage radar, power and navigation etc.
Confirmed 'Seat Actions' (Roles will be more merged together for the small ships):
- Command (Ordering, target selection. Usually the captain)
- Power management/routing
- Weapon management (ammo conservation/firing groups)
- Weapon firing
- Radar tagging/spotting/prioritising (RCO)
- Navigation (plotting a course)
- Helm (flying the ship)
- Hacking (ECM) (low priority as it will require an entirely custom implementation)
- Communications
- Damage control/engineering (Dealt with in the engine room)
Confirmed Downtime/off-duty roles:
- Multiple types of minigames, including cards, chess, poker, and other leisure functions
- Engineers can perform repairs or have a go at overclocking the ship's systems
- RCO (radar) could be monitoring long range scanners and identifying interest points
- Helm could be generally flying around or following a course set by the navigation officer
- Navigator could be plotting a route to increase fuel efficiency
- Gunners/passengers/junior crew could roleplay or be used as 'night crew' while the regular crew is taking a break
Additional:
- Radar/tagging stations will measure enemy signatures in EM output (power generation), Heat (engines/overheating), and cross-section (aka mass)
- Physical sabotage will be possible by all players (eg taking shields offline when an enemy attacks, then abandoning ship)
- You'll be able to turn the gravity on/off in the larger ships
- Engineers will be able to use their MobiGlass to identify damage/weak points in internal routing systems and optimise them further.
- NPC crew will never take risks (identify ships in a blind spot, for example)
- NPC crew will take orders from the captain via a queue system
- NPC crew may be better/quicker at accepting and carrying out orders than real players
- Turrets/gunners will have basic target marking and scan abilities
- Probes controlled by a bridge station might be added
- The Panther Escort Carrier will have a firing range
- Armories on capital ships will allow grunts to overclock/tune/maintain their weapons and armor
- Turrets will do nothing without an AI or player being in them
- Station layout/color schemes will be customisable.
- Station functions will be able to be bound to specific keys.
Additional information about Engineering & Power Routing roles:
- Engineering will have both physical and virtual elements. Cap ships will have a power network which all ship systems will be attached too. Power conduits will link the systems to each other and the power supply itself. At conduit junctions there will be fuses, both on the virtual map and physically on the ship. The engineer routes and reroutes power / heat to all systems via an engineers interface location in the Power Plant room. However if the ship takes damage in a specific location or the engineer passes too much power through a fuse, it will blow rendering that junction useless until repaired. This forces the engineer to either physically run around the ship and repair the fuses or reroute power virtually with the interface, likely putting even more stress on alternative routes.
Some of that stuff looks great on paper.
There's SO many things they need to get right gameplay-wise though.
For instance:
So as a pilot I won't have access to the radar? I doubt that.
As a second player what will I do with the radar? Tag enemies?
As a pilot I won't be able to manage my power?
What I'm trying to say is, they need to make the second seat worthwhile gameplay-wise by not restricting the pilot seat. Jezus it gives me a headache just thinking of how to balance these things.
Imagine the multi-crew ships. How do you make all of the seats interesting and not boring.
Good luck to them!
Also if they want to get things like this in release, the game isn't going to be released for the next 3-4 years at least.
There's SO many things they need to get right gameplay-wise though.
For instance:
So as a pilot I won't have access to the radar? I doubt that.
As a second player what will I do with the radar? Tag enemies?
As a pilot I won't be able to manage my power?
What I'm trying to say is, they need to make the second seat worthwhile gameplay-wise by not restricting the pilot seat. Jezus it gives me a headache just thinking of how to balance these things.
Imagine the multi-crew ships. How do you make all of the seats interesting and not boring.
Good luck to them!
Also if they want to get things like this in release, the game isn't going to be released for the next 3-4 years at least.
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